General Emerald Questions

[chrono]

As emeralds have been discussed here more frequently, many questions have popped up in my head and I’m hoping someone here will have some answers or at least lead me to the answers.

1. Why are Columbian emeralds only cut in Columbia? Is there a law similar to Sri Lanka where only cut stones are allowed to leave the country?

2. We always hear the warning that the closer to the mine, the higher the risk of fraudulent gems and lower quality. Why does it not apply to Columbian emeralds?

3. If it is due to a vendor’s connections, why aren’t the Thai dealers involved because they have deep pockets and money buys connections?

4. The Thai’s rich coffers allow them a good selection and huge bargaining power when it comes to other African and Brazilian stones, so why not Columbian emeralds?

5. If it is the Mafia risk, then why are only American dealers sticking their necks out?

 

[Valentino]

Only answer to #4.
Thai dealers only with African material. Brazilian is of the Brazilians
Ciao,
Valentino

 

[Valentino]

And it not Columbia or Columbian, it is Colombia.

 

[kenny]

Date: 6/29/2010 5:35:42 PM
Author: Valentino
And it not Columbia or Columbian, it is Colombia.

It's not "it".
It's "it's", or "it is".

 

[Valentino]

Ahh,
my mistake.
Originally I am a foreigner, sorry about my poor engles
Ciao
Valentino.
PS. Opps, for got the , or I say opss

 

[serenitydiamonds]

1. Why are Columbian emeralds only cut in Columbia? Is there a law similar to Sri Lanka where only cut stones are allowed to leave the country?
Some Colombian emeralds do make it out of the country to be cut, but typically not. Colombia''s a risky place and until recently all the emeralds were under tight control of those who owned the mines. This, combined with a long history on cutting them, makes it a good place to distribute them. There''s a lot of tradition and history in Colombia with a tremendous amount of experience already in place in Emeralds. They''ve been mined and cut in Colombia for generations. Cutting emeralds is more of an art than other gems with their inclusions... Other sources of emeralds did not have local cutting experience, so it would make sense to export the rough to cutters.


2. We always hear the warning that the closer to the mine, the higher the risk of fraudulent gems and lower quality. Why does it not apply to Columbian emeralds?
This applies to ALL gems. The best place to find a $200 7Up bottle ''emerald'' is Bogota right in the center of the emerald market.


3. If it is due to a vendor’s connections, why aren’t the Thai dealers involved because they have deep pockets and money buys connections?
Not completely sure. I can say in Colombia, money does not buy connections. Power used to, and now relationships do.


4. The Thai’s rich coffers allow them a good selection and huge bargaining power when it comes to other African and Brazilian stones, so why not Columbian emeralds?
Not completely sure.


5. If it is the Mafia risk, then why are only American dealers sticking their necks out?

We''re not really sticking our necks out, we already have relationships with the people who mine and cut them gems, similar to the Thai''s having that same experience with the local Corundum.

Naturally my opinion based on my experiences

--Joshua

 

[morecarats]

The Thais make money in the gemstone business by adding value to the product. They do so mainly in two ways: by cutting gems and by treating them (and very often, both). They look especially for opportunities where there is a new discovery in an undeveloped country. The higher the value add, the higher the profits. Simply marketing gems that were treated and cut by others is not a high profit business.

 

[chrono]

Thank you for the correction of my spelling; my old brain keeps forgetting that it is spelled with an “O”.

1. If mined and cut in Colombia, do the stones then get “distributed” out of the country?

2. Can these connections be considered exclusive, almost a monopoly because there are so few vendors who offer emeralds for sale?

3. Are these the same reasons why we don’t see American cutters cut emeralds? Partly because they leave Colombia or other emerald producing locations already cut, plus the challenge of cutting around the inclusions?

 

[Jim Rentfrow]

Date: 6/30/2010 8:25:02 AM
Author: Chrono
Thank you for the correction of my spelling; my old brain keeps forgetting that it is spelled with an “O”.

1. If mined and cut in Colombia, do the stones then get “distributed” out of the country?

2. Can these connections be considered exclusive, almost a monopoly because there are so few vendors who offer emeralds for sale?

3. Are these the same reasons why we don’t see American cutters cut emeralds? Partly because they leave Colombia or other emerald producing locations already cut, plus the challenge of cutting around the inclusions?

There are plenty of American cutters who cut emeralds. We just dont get much colombian rough. We might get rough from Zambia or Afghanistan which in my opinion is the best location for emerald and is under appreciated. There is just a general lack of quality emerald to facet. The stones can fall apart during cutting and a lot of cutters may not want to risk losing an investment to cut the stone. Rough emerald can be almost 1k a carat for quality rough so investing 5k in a piece of rough to get a one or two carat stone is a lot of risk. However, if you can get a quality gemstone out of the rough reward is worth the risk.

 

[chrono]

Jim,
Why is the Zambian or Afghanistan material better in your opinion? I’ve been told that the colour of most Colombian material far surpasses these, plus they have a certain glow (from microscopic inclusions) that the African material lacks.

 

[Jim Rentfrow]

Sorry I worded that wrong. The best material in my opinion is the material from Afghanistan. I might be biased though because the guy who trained me how to cut was cutting a 3.05 carat portuguese round Afghani emerald when I first met him. The color was exceptional and the clarity required no treatements. THe gems I have seen from Afghanistan seem to have better color and clarity than the ones I have seen from colombia.

 

[chrono]

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that chromium, which is the chromophore for the Colombian emeralds, is the very same thing that causes all these fractures. If the Afghanistan material is very clean, then they are coloured by Vanadium? I don’t believe I have had the opportunity of seeing any Afghanistan emeralds as yet.

 

[Jim Rentfrow]

They are hard to find right now due to the war. I have only seen a few in the last few years but what I have seen has been top color and clarity. To be honest, Chrono, I am not sure if they are colored by cromophore or vanadium. I decided I wanted to get a geology degree on top of the MBA, and gemology ones so maybe I can do some research on this subject in the future.

 

[T L]

IMHO, a clean emerald doesn't necessarily make for a fine emerald. It must have all three going for it, the clarity, color and the inclusions that give it the velvet glow. The Spanish have termed this velvet glow, but I don't remember the phrase. I have not seen Afghan emeralds in person, only online, so I do not know if they also have this velvet sheen. They look more crystal to me, which again, reminds me of tsavorite.

When I say inclusions, I'm not talking Jardin, but the microscopic inclusions that you are unable to see with the naked eye that produce this sheen. It's not silk, like in Kashmir sapphire or other gems, but it's another type of inclusion. I forgot what it was, but Colombian emeralds are known for this velvet sheen and have these inclusions.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

1. If mined and cut in Colombia, do the stones then get “distributed” out of the country?
Well I posted a little tidbit earlier about a foreign company that purchased part of the Muzo mine.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/50-of-muzo-mines-purchased-late-last-year.143380/

This company takes a good portion for what appears to be the top tier retailers. The rest are distributed via dealers in Colombia to dealers throughout the world.


2. Can these connections be considered exclusive, almost a monopoly because there are so few vendors who offer emeralds for sale?
Nope, it''s very similar to the dealers of other gemstones, except instead of trading markets and dealers in Thailand, you''re trading in Colombia.


3. Are these the same reasons why we don’t see American cutters cut emeralds? Partly because they leave Colombia or other emerald producing locations already cut, plus the challenge of cutting around the inclusions?
Yes. Cutting emeralds are quite a challenge, and quite a risk. There''s a nice phrase that most use, for every new emerald cutter starting a business in Colombia, two are leaving the business, lol.

--Joshua

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 6/30/2010 10:12:31 AM
Author: Jim Rentfrow
Sorry I worded that wrong. The best material in my opinion is the material from Afghanistan. I might be biased though because the guy who trained me how to cut was cutting a 3.05 carat portuguese round Afghani emerald when I first met him. The color was exceptional and the clarity required no treatements. THe gems I have seen from Afghanistan seem to have better color and clarity than the ones I have seen from colombia.

Somebody needs to show you a real high quality Colombian then

--Joshua

 

[chrono]

Thanks for the explanation, Josh.
2. Except that in Thailand, they deal with a variety of gemstones but in Colombia, the trading is mainly in emeralds?

As I''ve never seen a really high quality Colombian emerald IRL, I''m all up for anyone to send me an example stone.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

TL Are you talking about the rarest of rarest inclusion, Gota da Aciete? Or the Three phase?

--Joshua

 

[chrono]

Edited.

 

[T L]

Found some info on the inclusions that cause the velvet sheen in emerals from an excerpt sample of this book. It seems exclusive to Colombian emeralds which is why they are considered the best!!

http://www.emeraldpassion.com/sample.htm

There is no better place to rediscover wonder than in a remarkable phenomenon that occurs inside the finest emeralds. That phenomenon is called gota de aceite (Spanish for “drop of oil,” pronounced “go-tuh day ah-say-tay”). A velvety interruption of the light passing through the emerald, the effect is prized by connoisseurs in the same way they value the velvety texture of a Kashmir sapphire. In both cases, the color of the stone is softened and the internal reflections are spread by numerous microscopic inclusions, reducing extinction and giving a liquid, velvety texture. Gota de aceite is associated with the Colombian emerald, and even in Colombian stones it is visible in only one in a thousand, mainly of fine quality. In six years of informal study of this phenomenon, I have only detected it rarely, personally viewing about 18 good examples, 20 moderate examples and 50 that were muted or indistinct.

 

[T L]

Date: 6/30/2010 11:22:03 AM
Author: serenitydiamonds
TL Are you talking about the rarest of rarest inclusion, Gota da Aciete? Or the Three phase?

--Joshua

You and I posted at the same time. I just gave some information on that Spanish word. Thanks Josh!! Yes, that''s it.

 

[Sagebrush]

All,

Highly recommend Ron Ringsrud''s book, Emerald, A Passionate Guide.

As to the questions: Emerald rough can be exported. I don''t quite agree with Ron on Gota da aceita. Most connoisseurs are looking for the oily or honey like transparency not the roiled look and I would define honey like transparency as the "old mine" look. The "velvet" comes from the stone''s R. I. coupled with the classic emerald cut.

Some of the legendary Indian "old mine" emeralds thought to be from Colombia actually came from Swat Valley in Pakistan.

Best,

 

[chrono]

Richard,
What is the “old mine” look? Also, how do you define “oily” or honey-like? “Oily” to me means it is too silky or too sleepy. It is that sheen that one cannot seem to wipe away no matter how hard I try, like on that one tsavorite I looked at in person.

ETA
I just completed reading TL's link and it is incredibly helpful and clear with example pictures. Thank you!

No need to answer my question about the oily or honey appearance.

 

[Sagebrush]

Chrono,

I think the analogy to a satin ribbon is best, think about that and compare the sheen of it to the quality of brilliance that you see in a fine EC emerald.

"Honey" or "oily" refers to the quality of the transparency or crystal of the stone. Emerald connoisseurs will often talk about crystal Think of how honey looks when you hold a jar up the the light, it lacks the crispness of say pure water, not sure how to describe that quality other than to repeat the words.

Best,

 

[RockHugger]

So thats what that is! My new emerald has some ''stuff'' in it that look like the inclusions in that link (under 120x magnification). I tried washing my emerald thinking it was gunk on the pavilion reflecting in the stone but it wouldnt come off.

 

[RockHugger]

Here is whats in my new stone. 120x magnification. I thought it was dirt *shrug*. Have I mentioned I LOVVVE my microscope?

 

[T L]

Date: 6/30/2010 3:24:08 PM
Author: Richard W. Wise
Chrono,

I think the analogy to a satin ribbon is best, think about that and compare the sheen of it to the quality of brilliance that you see in a fine EC emerald.

''Honey'' or ''oily'' refers to the quality of the transparency or crystal of the stone. Emerald connoisseurs will often talk about crystal Think of how honey looks when you hold a jar up the the light, it lacks the crispness of say pure water, not sure how to describe that quality other than to repeat the words.

Best,

Thanks Richard,
That''s a good analogy. It''s so hard to describe the sheen, but a satin ribbon describes it pretty well.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I just the read the summer edition of the Gem Forcaster by Robert Gennis. He talks about emeralds and how after Angelina wore those huge emerald earrings at the Oscars in 2009, the demand for large emeralds has increased. He mentioned that designers stayed away from using emeralds, as they began to be thought of as having a heavy look(I''m thinking stodgy old fashioned.) beside having trouble with new types of treatment.

I think that that is why I like the brighter green more than this darker top color green. I do have a Zambian emerald necklace.( Not top color) It was said that Zambian emeralds were much cleaner than Colombian.


I also just returned Elizabeth Taylors book on "My love affair with jewelry." I have read it before, but this time I asked myself which piece woiuld I like to wear. The rubies were beautiful, but too colorful to wear for most people. I ended desiiring emerald and diamond earrings. The emerald necklace was beautiful, but unless you are the Queen of England where do you wear these items. The emeralds were the best for me.

I have even wanted to know where Cat Women wears her necklaces and earrings. It seems the younger women want smaller pieces. Yes, emeralds are beautiful. Just wanted to comment. I think you will find The Gem Forecaster good this summer. He recommends some stones to buy for protection-provided you have a balanced portfolio.
It seems Pricescope ladies are on the right track.

Thanks for the info.

Annette

 

[T L]

Date: 6/30/2010 4:10:48 PM
Author: smitcompton
Hi,

I just the read the summer edition of the Gem Forcaster by Robert Gennis. He talks about emeralds and how after Angelina wore those huge emerald earrings at the Oscars in 2009, the demand for large emeralds has increased. He mentioned that designers stayed away from using emeralds, as they began to be thought of as having a heavy look(I''m thinking stodgy old fashioned.) beside having trouble with new types of treatment.

I think that that is why I like the brighter green more than this darker top color green. I do have a Zambian emerald necklace.( Not top color) It was said that Zambian emeralds were much cleaner than Colombian.


I also just returned Elizabeth Taylors book on ''My love affair with jewelry.'' I have read it before, but this time I asked myself which piece woiuld I like to wear. The rubies were beautiful, but too colorful to wear for most people. I ended desiiring emerald and diamond earrings. The emerald necklace was beautiful, but unless you are the Queen of England where do you wear these items. The emeralds were the best for me.

I have even wanted to know where Cat Women wears her necklaces and earrings. It seems the younger women want smaller pieces. Yes, emeralds are beautiful. Just wanted to comment. I think you will find The Gem Forecaster good this summer. He recommends some stones to buy for protection-provided you have a balanced portfolio.
It seems Pricescope ladies are on the right track.

Thanks for the info.

Annette

You mean you wouldn''t wear that necklace to the grocery store??? LOL!

That Colombian emerald suite that Elizabeth owns is one of my favorites, and she actually auctioned off the ring to beneift AIDS charities. It only went for the measly sum of $80K, which to many of us is a great deal of money, but it is diddly squat for that ring. Someone really lucked out there. I own that book, but she wore that emerald suite for Fred Ward''s book on emeralds, which I also own. It''s magnificent. I do love that ruby ring that Richard Burton bought for her though. DROOOoooooool!!

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 6/30/2010 4:10:48 PM
Author: smitcompton
Hi,


I just the read the summer edition of the Gem Forcaster by Robert Gennis. He talks about emeralds and how after Angelina wore those huge emerald earrings at the Oscars in 2009, the demand for large emeralds has increased. He mentioned that designers stayed away from using emeralds, as they began to be thought of as having a heavy look(I'm thinking stodgy old fashioned.) beside having trouble with new types of treatment.


I think that that is why I like the brighter green more than this darker top color green. I do have a Zambian emerald necklace.( Not top color) It was said that Zambian emeralds were much cleaner than Colombian.



I also just returned Elizabeth Taylors book on 'My love affair with jewelry.' I have read it before, but this time I asked myself which piece woiuld I like to wear. The rubies were beautiful, but too colorful to wear for most people. I ended desiiring emerald and diamond earrings. The emerald necklace was beautiful, but unless you are the Queen of England where do you wear these items. The emeralds were the best for me.


I have even wanted to know where Cat Women wears her necklaces and earrings. It seems the younger women want smaller pieces. Yes, emeralds are beautiful. Just wanted to comment. I think you will find The Gem Forecaster good this summer. He recommends some stones to buy for protection-provided you have a balanced portfolio.

It seems Pricescope ladies are on the right track.


Thanks for the info.


Annette

I tell my wife where whatever she wants whenever. A hot necklace still looks hot if you've got on jeans and a T-shirt

--Joshua