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Ebay auctions w/ private offer. Pro or Cons?

bluenights

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
81
Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

innerkitten|1339476787|3214361 said:
Enerchi|1339416312|3213654 said:
LD|1339411386|3213623 said:
This is common practice and not just with Tan. Many of the Ebay sellers will do it. Sorry you're disappointed. If this experience with Tan hasn't soured things for you, why not ask if he has another similar stone?

REALLY??? I never would have thought this was common - I am with bluenights, in that if it is listed as auction, I also would have assumed the auction will run itself out and whoever the winner is... is the winner, not cutting it short. Hmmm... learn something everyday!

I've never heard of this either. I think it's really strange. As far as I know once there is a bid on an item you're not really supposed to remove it unless it's damaged or lost or something. Did it have a make an offer option?

that's exactly what i thought.. Feel strange and upset since i really like it.
it doesn't have an offer option
they worked it out privately.

but ebay does allow seller to end listing, which i just know

Reasons for ending a listing early
When you end a listing early or make other last-minute changes, buyers may feel disappointed. However, sometimes there's a valid reason why you need to end a listing early.

Reason
What to do

The item is lost, broken, or otherwise no longer available for sale.
As soon as you notice a problem, try to end the listing.

You made a mistake when creating the listing.
Consider revising the listing or adding a note to the item's description, rather than ending it. Learn more about the restrictions and steps for revising a listing.

If this doesn't work, try to end the listing.
 

bluenights

Rough_Rock
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Messages
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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

i don't know how to change title, but i think it's not about Tan anymore, can someone edit it?
this thread can be useful letting people know what's allowed, have more chances with stones they like
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
38,364
Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

Hit / click on the Report Concern button (same row as Reply button) and request Ella, the moderator, to change the title of the thread to whatever you like.
 

NKOTB

Ideal_Rock
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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

I am familiar with this kind of disappointment, as the same thing happened to me yesterday, only there had been no bids on the item yet (I thought I had a week, so didn't rush on one). This was with an individual, not a store. I have missed out on lots of stones for various reasons, and try to heed some of the advice above about lack of emotion, it's just a thing, etc. I have toughened up a bit, hopefully you do too. ;-)

It might be an idea, though, if you are starting a thread about this kind of thing, and are wondering about something general like ebay policies (without combing through and reading them first), to use more general terms, such as "a vendor". Then the potentially helpful information could still come out, and you wouldn't have to worry about removing names and such, after the fact.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

NKOTB|1339507157|3214515 said:
I am familiar with this kind of disappointment, as the same thing happened to me yesterday, only there had been no bids on the item yet (I thought I had a week, so didn't rush on one). This was with an individual, not a store. I have missed out on lots of stones for various reasons, and try to heed some of the advice above about lack of emotion, it's just a thing, etc. I have toughened up a bit, hopefully you do too. ;-)

It might be an idea, though, if you are starting a thread about this kind of thing, and are wondering about something general like ebay policies (without combing through and reading them first), to use more general terms, such as "a vendor". Then the potentially helpful information could still come out, and you wouldn't have to worry about removing names and such, after the fact.

I used to get really upset when I lost stones unfairly, and I'm sorry, I do think its unfair to end an auction because someone else wants the stone, no matter what the ebay policies are. However, such is life, and you do get used to it after a while. I would get really upset by vendors that don't have shopping carts that state the stone is sold, even if you check out.

I remember a long long time ago, I wanted a stone, and I made an offer higher than the person who had first made an offer, and the vendor didn't want to alienate his customer (first come, first serve), so he took the lower offer. I also know that some vendors will not end auctions just because you make a high offer because there are bids on it, and this is ebay we're talking about. It's just common sense for a vendor to be fair to people I think. Sometimes a higher paycheck can make you lose several more. I then came to the conclusion that what these dealers were doing was honorable, even if they didn't get the highest offer. I came to respect them for that, even if I couldn't get my own way, by having the stone before the other bidders.

To the OP, I understand your frustration, and I'm sorry this happened. However, it's just a material object, and if you're like me, you may just want to broaden your searches to look for similar items. I've been ebaying since ebay was ebay, and for those of you that might not think this is a big deal because you don't bid, then you don't know how some of us may feel when a stone is swiped from under you. Maybe those bidders might want to make an offer too, had they been given the chance.
 

NKOTB

Ideal_Rock
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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

I agree that it was unfair. In my situation yesterday, the woman said she would not have ended it early had there been a bid. Had I known there was any such risk, I might have put in a bid, or at least emailed the seller to indicate an interest (though I had emailed with some questions about the item). I thought there was actually some difficulty in ending early if there were bids - I remember, with another vendor, that I had asked about the dimensions of the stone in the listing, because they seemed off. He then realized he had made a typo, and wanted to make a correction, but there was some "extra hoop" or something to go through, because there were already bids in place. I can't find the email where he says what he did, though.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

Honestly,
I don't know why more ebay dealers just don't use the Best Offer option. At least if someone gets a stone by making a higher offer, I can't kick myself later for missing out on the deal, or be angry at the person who did put in a higher offer. You can always counter back and forth between the seller too. I have scored some really good deals with the Best Offer option.

I think some dealers like to use auctions because it psychologically nets in more people when they see a lower starting bid, but that's my suspicion.

ETA: I don't want people to think I'm being unfair to Tan either. He may not realize the impact that this has on some customers' feelings. He's a very nice man, and I enjoy dealing with him. Hopefully he reads this and understands the issues involved on both sides.
 

K9

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
778
Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

TL|1339510737|3214551 said:
Honestly,
I don't know why more ebay dealers just don't use the Best Offer option. At least if someone gets a stone by making a higher offer, I can't kick myself later for missing out on the deal, or be angry at the person who did put in a higher offer. You can always counter back and forth between the seller too. I have scored some really good deals with the Best Offer option.

I think some dealers like to use auctions because it psychologically nets in more people when they see a lower starting bid, but that's my suspicion.

You can't put a best offer option on an auction - you can only do best offer in combination with a buy it now. That's why the option exists to end the listing early and sell to the high bidder for auctions. It is also cheaper to list items auction style than fixed price so there's a lower up-front cost to get your item out there. Final value is higher on auction style, but there's a cap.

Is it unfair? Sure. Business isn't always fair and you can't please everyone. Tan (and any vendor) needs to do what's right for him and his business - and yes, you might lose a few customers that way, but you could also gain some.

We've all lost out on auctions before. You might be really upset, but as others have stated, it's just a material item and there are more items out there.
 

NKOTB

Ideal_Rock
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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

TL|1339510737|3214551 said:
Honestly,
I don't know why more ebay dealers just don't use the Best Offer option. At least if someone gets a stone by making a higher offer, I can't kick myself later for missing out on the deal, or be angry at the person who did put in a higher offer. You can always counter back and forth between the seller too. I have scored some really good deals with the Best Offer option.

I think some dealers like to use auctions because it psychologically nets in more people when they see a lower starting bid, but that's my suspicion.

ETA: I don't want people to think I'm being unfair to Tan either. He may not realize the impact that this has on some customers' feelings. He's a very nice man, and I enjoy dealing with him. Hopefully he reads this and understands the issues involved on both sides.

+1

Thanks for the info on the Best Offer option/etc., K9. I didn't know that. I guess it's just hard with auctions, because it gives the illusion of fairness.
 

Lee Little

Shiny_Rock
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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

Hi TL,
When the 'make offer' button first came out I thought it was a great idea and added it to all my listings. Quickly I learned that kids and rude people found it entertaining to send offers of a dollar on a gold ring etc, wasting my time reading them. I went back in and set minimums on offers that I would see and automatically declined all offers below that. That cleaned it up but it still ate time reading low offers and counter offering so I set an amount that would be auto accepted. That seemed like a good middle ground until I noticed that some of my best most regular customers were not making offers but were just hitting buy it now and paying full price. I asked a couple of them why and got the same answer from each, it was like an insult in their minds to ask for a lower price on something I had made by hand when I was only asking a moderate price for it. So I realized that I was charging my best customers my highest price and was giving discounts to strangers. That was enough for me, I took all the buttons out and used my old 'auto accept' number for the new price. Evened the playing field. Best regards, Lee
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

K9, Lee,
Thank you for the additional information on how ebay BIN, offers and auctions work.
 

Lee Little

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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

Hi K9,
I am pretty sure it is more expensive for me to list auctions than buy it now, (my account is a premium store). For one thing the initial listing for a 'buy it now' cost a nickel a month and auctions I think are a dime for a week. Previously I did 10 auctions a week but that was only because auctions were high in the search engine and 'buy it now', where I had over a thousand listings, could not be found by hardly anybody without the 'auction doorway'. As far as I know, ebay has now made the search engine the same on all listings regardless of formats so I see little reason to use the auction format. Of course, I can hardly keep up with all the changes eBay makes on their policies so I could be wrong? Best regards, Lee
 

bluenights

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
81
Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

TL|1339509457|3214541 said:
I used to get really upset when I lost stones unfairly, and I'm sorry, I do think its unfair to end an auction because someone else wants the stone, no matter what the ebay policies are. However, such is life, and you do get used to it after a while. I would get really upset by vendors that don't have shopping carts that state the stone is sold, even if you check out.

I remember a long long time ago, I wanted a stone, and I made an offer higher than the person who had first made an offer, and the vendor didn't want to alienate his customer (first come, first serve), so he took the lower offer. I also know that some vendors will not end auctions just because you make a high offer because there are bids on it, and this is ebay we're talking about. It's just common sense for a vendor to be fair to people I think. Sometimes a higher paycheck can make you lose several more. I then came to the conclusion that what these dealers were doing was honorable, even if they didn't get the highest offer. I came to respect them for that, even if I couldn't get my own way, by having the stone before the other bidders.

To the OP, I understand your frustration, and I'm sorry this happened. However, it's just a material object, and if you're like me, you may just want to broaden your searches to look for similar items. I've been ebaying since ebay was ebay, and for those of you that might not think this is a big deal because you don't bid, then you don't know how some of us may feel when a stone is swiped from under you. Maybe those bidders might want to make an offer too, had they been given the chance.

Same here, even if today I know ebay allows this, but it's clearly not a common sense and not something ebay really recommend. A lot of people don't know they have this option and will feel disappointed. Even ebay policy says buyers will be disappointed if you end listings early in there instructions. Especially when they have no idea what's going on. Because I have met a lot of respectful sellers, who insist to sell stuff to a lower offer but has agreed with each other, rather than a later, higher offer. I have met sellers sold really valuable things even if the bids didn't met his expectations, they all give me an idea that ebay is a place where you play fair, if you win you win, if you loose you loose, if you take the chance with an auction, prepare with either high or low bids. Clearly not all are like that, I will learn from this lesson, and try to avoid auction, looking for BIN more, and contact with seller more. I also think if everyone know how to play this game, whenever an auction is listed, we all put an offer in the first time, then ebay's auction is more or less just a joke or a mess up to me.
 

bluenights

Rough_Rock
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Messages
81
Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

have requested to change the title to
ebay auction with private offers, pro or cons?
 

johnfish

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Messages
61
Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

So in the end the discussion really is about Ebay policies rather than the individual sellar. I do owe Tan an apology in that case. I had no idea these were the policies that ebay had in place, That is my fault for making an asumption that an auction is a fixed contract between the seller and any bidders/buyers. Now that i understand this I will probably never make another bid on ebay and just contact the seller directly and see if i can make a deal with them.

Thank you all for the education it has been very enlightening.


John
 

K9

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
778
Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

Lee Little|1339513607|3214576 said:
Hi K9,
I am pretty sure it is more expensive for me to list auctions than buy it now, (my account is a premium store). For one thing the initial listing for a 'buy it now' cost a nickel a month and auctions I think are a dime for a week. Previously I did 10 auctions a week but that was only because auctions were high in the search engine and 'buy it now', where I had over a thousand listings, could not be found by hardly anybody without the 'auction doorway'. As far as I know, ebay has now made the search engine the same on all listings regardless of formats so I see little reason to use the auction format. Of course, I can hardly keep up with all the changes eBay makes on their policies so I could be wrong? Best regards, Lee

I was quoting based on private seller, not a store. I hadn't considered that the fee structure is different for stores, which it certainly is. Sorry for the miscommunication about that.

Private sellers can list buy it now at fifty cents for a month, whereas auctions are much less.
 

Lee Little

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

K9|1339517638|3214616 said:
Lee Little|1339513607|3214576 said:
Hi K9,
I am pretty sure it is more expensive for me to list auctions than buy it now, (my account is a premium store). For one thing the initial listing for a 'buy it now' cost a nickel a month and auctions I think are a dime for a week. Previously I did 10 auctions a week but that was only because auctions were high in the search engine and 'buy it now', where I had over a thousand listings, could not be found by hardly anybody without the 'auction doorway'. As far as I know, ebay has now made the search engine the same on all listings regardless of formats so I see little reason to use the auction format. Of course, I can hardly keep up with all the changes eBay makes on their policies so I could be wrong? Best regards, Lee

I was quoting based on private seller, not a store. I hadn't considered that the fee structure is different for stores, which it certainly is. Sorry for the miscommunication about that.

Private sellers can list buy it now at fifty cents for a month, whereas auctions are much less.

Hi K9,
Thanks for that clarification. I for one do not read all the ebay polices as I find it to hard to stay awake thru it plus they are always making changes so it has been difficult to keep up. 50 CENTS A MONTH, HOLY COW! I used to list for 2 cents a month. Those new policies are really hurting the little guy. I have friends see me doing well on eBay and ask me if they should try eBay and I cannot recommend it. Very likely they will ONLY lose money. The new rules make it almost impossible to get a new business off the ground. I am lucky that I was already established, the changes actually increased my sales and at the same time lowered my fees. For the real big guys it had even a greater effect. I am thinking the biggest sellers actually own the whole site, just a guess. Otherwise, why did little guy get squeezed so hard? I have never liked eBay but it has the best traffic so there ya go. Best regards, Lee
 

bluenights

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

johnfish|1339516960|3214612 said:
So in the end the discussion really is about Ebay policies rather than the individual sellar. I do owe Tan an apology in that case. I had no idea these were the policies that ebay had in place, That is my fault for making an asumption that an auction is a fixed contract between the seller and any bidders/buyers. Now that i understand this I will probably never make another bid on ebay and just contact the seller directly and see if i can make a deal with them.
Thank you all for the education it has been very enlightening.


John

Hi John, this is what I was saying. Even though it may not be recommended, but if everybody does this, what will the auctions turn into...?Another form of BIN? Maybe worse than BIN. It's even harder to search for stones, but that's ebay's concern.
 

minousbijoux

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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

Bluenights, you're beating a dead horse at this point. Please let it go. Thx
 

K9

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Messages
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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

Lee Little|1339519368|3214646 said:
Hi K9,
Thanks for that clarification. I for one do not read all the ebay polices as I find it to hard to stay awake thru it plus they are always making changes so it has been difficult to keep up. 50 CENTS A MONTH, HOLY COW! I used to list for 2 cents a month. Those new policies are really hurting the little guy. I have friends see me doing well on eBay and ask me if they should try eBay and I cannot recommend it. Very likely they will ONLY lose money. The new rules make it almost impossible to get a new business off the ground. I am lucky that I was already established, the changes actually increased my sales and at the same time lowered my fees. For the real big guys it had even a greater effect. I am thinking the biggest sellers actually own the whole site, just a guess. Otherwise, why did little guy get squeezed so hard? I have never liked eBay but it has the best traffic so there ya go. Best regards, Lee

Yeah, for sure it's a tough market selling on ebay. And yes - 50 cents a month! Can you say ripoff?!?! But,as a private seller, if you have some items you are selling here and there it's a great way to get the exposure. As you said, it has the best traffic. You just have to compensate on your pricing to cover the fees. By the time you factor in the listing, final value and then paypal - you are left with crumbs. LOL

Sounds like you got in at the right time for sure - those are some great rates you are getting! Glad to hear you're doing well - I like hearing the success stories of ebay. :))
 

bluenights

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Messages
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Re: Not a very nice thing for Tan to do!!!

minousbijoux|1339522979|3214687 said:
Bluenights, you're beating a dead horse at this point. Please let it go. Thx

As you can see in this thread, not all know about this ebay policy
I have requested to change the title, so it’s not again single vendor
I didn’t mean to keep pushing it up but there are new replies left by others.
They also are people surprised to find out this is allowed or thanks for sharing this information.
I’m sorry if you feel that way.
 

johnfish

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Messages
61
In all reality I dont think blueknights is beating a dead horse. And if people think that it is then I suggest you move on as I find this a valuable discussion. As I said I learned a lot, and isnt that the point? For those of us who are not as savy as to the practices of ebay and the sellars this has been a valuable thread. And again it is enlightening to see that sellars are being squeezed by ebay. The problem is not the sellers but ebay itself. I did do some selling and more buying when it first started up and it was a much easier place to find deals on. My buying and selling was not gem stone related however. Ebay should be careful that they don't destroy a good thing. Or has that already happend?

John
 

K9

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
778
johnfish|1339528812|3214749 said:
In all reality I dont think blueknights is beating a dead horse. And if people think that it is then I suggest you move on as I find this a valuable discussion. As I said I learned a lot, and isnt that the point? For those of us who are not as savy as to the practices of ebay and the sellars this has been a valuable thread. And again it is enlightening to see that sellars are being squeezed by ebay. The problem is not the sellers but ebay itself. I did do some selling and more buying when it first started up and it was a much easier place to find deals on. My buying and selling was not gem stone related however. Ebay should be careful that they don't destroy a good thing. Or has that already happend?

John

I agree that this has turned into a good discussion.

Sellers are for sure being squeezed. Sellers have little recourse since ebay protects the buyer. Even if you say "all sales final"... all a buyer has to do is say three little words and bam! Refund to buyer. Don't get me wrong, as a buyer this is great, but I do sell from time to time and as someone who just sells stuff to make room for other stuff.... it's a lot of risk and sometimes a buyer just wants the sure thing so that way the deal is done and they don't have to worry about it.

Anyway... frankly, I love ebay. I think if you have the time there are some deals to be had but you do kinda have to know what you're doing and how to read really bad photos sometimes. As always, it's a gamble too.
 

AN0NYM0US

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As already stated by various members here, ending an auction early does happen and often for good reasons. Often sellers have the stones listed at other places examples: on their own website, their own storefront, gem shows...

Ending items early isn't new or uncommon. Welcome to gem buying on ebay.
 

Lady_Disdain

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K9|1339531023|3214772 said:
I agree that this has turned into a good discussion.

Sellers are for sure being squeezed. Sellers have little recourse since ebay protects the buyer. Even if you say "all sales final"... all a buyer has to do is say three little words and bam! Refund to buyer. Don't get me wrong, as a buyer this is great, but I do sell from time to time and as someone who just sells stuff to make room for other stuff.... it's a lot of risk and sometimes a buyer just wants the sure thing so that way the deal is done and they don't have to worry about it.

Anyway... frankly, I love ebay. I think if you have the time there are some deals to be had but you do kinda have to know what you're doing and how to read really bad photos sometimes. As always, it's a gamble too.

And it isn't only eBay that operates like this. Recently, I sold a piece through my own website, paid through Paypal with a credit card. It was custom made, shipped and received by the customer. A few days ago, they alleged that they had never ordered it and, just like that, the money was gone from my account. I am trying to appeal but it isn't easy at all.

eBay has, if you think about it, a very strange format for an auction, because of the online setting. The viewing and bidding periods are combined. The auction ends at a set time, instead of when there are no more bids, enabling sniping.
 

Lady_Disdain

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K9|1339531023|3214772 said:
I agree that this has turned into a good discussion.

Sellers are for sure being squeezed. Sellers have little recourse since ebay protects the buyer. Even if you say "all sales final"... all a buyer has to do is say three little words and bam! Refund to buyer. Don't get me wrong, as a buyer this is great, but I do sell from time to time and as someone who just sells stuff to make room for other stuff.... it's a lot of risk and sometimes a buyer just wants the sure thing so that way the deal is done and they don't have to worry about it.

Anyway... frankly, I love ebay. I think if you have the time there are some deals to be had but you do kinda have to know what you're doing and how to read really bad photos sometimes. As always, it's a gamble too.

And it isn't only eBay that operates like this. Recently, I sold a piece through my own website, paid through Paypal with a credit card. It was custom made, shipped and received by the customer. A few days ago, they alleged that they had never ordered it and, just like that, the money was gone from my account. I am trying to appeal but it isn't easy at all.

eBay has, if you think about it, a very strange format for an auction, because of the online setting. The viewing and bidding periods are combined. The auction ends at a set time, instead of when there are no more bids, enabling sniping.
 

johnfish

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Messages
61
Not being a seller please forgive my ignorance if this seems crass or rude to sellers it is not ment that way. But I see a big problem with posting the item on multiple sites. That in some way seems unfair to someone who is looking to legitamately buy an item. As in my case when I tried to buy an item BIN I was told it was no longer available. If this is because it was posted in several locations I feel that is unfair to me. To me BIN is the same as walking into a store seeing something on the shelf and buying it. The experience I had BIN was like going into a store buying something then being told oh we already sold that in another store and being given my money back. Although I am not harmed in any way I was not able to purchase an item I thought was for sale. If this happened in real life i would never shop at that store again as I would feel like I was being teased. I now understand how this works and because of this I will probably not buy things from Ebay again.

Again I am not condeming the sellers. If this is the only way they can do business on ebay than more power to them. But I would rather deal with some one that I know will be able to deliver on a product I am attempting to buy not tell me someone else just bought it from one of thier other sites. I will stick with dealing with individuals directly or on line sites other than auction sites for my business.
 

AN0NYM0US

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I love first world problems :rolleyes:
 

NKOTB

Ideal_Rock
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Lady_Disdain|1339532211|3214791 said:
K9|1339531023|3214772 said:
I agree that this has turned into a good discussion.

Sellers are for sure being squeezed. Sellers have little recourse since ebay protects the buyer. Even if you say "all sales final"... all a buyer has to do is say three little words and bam! Refund to buyer. Don't get me wrong, as a buyer this is great, but I do sell from time to time and as someone who just sells stuff to make room for other stuff.... it's a lot of risk and sometimes a buyer just wants the sure thing so that way the deal is done and they don't have to worry about it.

Anyway... frankly, I love ebay. I think if you have the time there are some deals to be had but you do kinda have to know what you're doing and how to read really bad photos sometimes. As always, it's a gamble too.

And it isn't only eBay that operates like this. Recently, I sold a piece through my own website, paid through Paypal with a credit card. It was custom made, shipped and received by the customer. A few days ago, they alleged that they had never ordered it and, just like that, the money was gone from my account. I am trying to appeal but it isn't easy at all.

eBay has, if you think about it, a very strange format for an auction, because of the online setting. The viewing and bidding periods are combined. The auction ends at a set time, instead of when there are no more bids, enabling sniping.


Very sorry to hear that, Lady Disdain. :(( Good luck with your appeal.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 22, 2004
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Johnfish,
I also experience the same thing as you do with general online purchases, not just eBay. I recall trying to buy a very specific CD about 3 months ago, scoured the net, finally found it, paid for it, only to be told shortly afterwards that the item is no longer available. This occured with several vendors. Those vendors are not the "fly by night" type either. In the end, I had to get the CD from an individual seller, and not a store. :wacko: I don't think this issue is limited to the vendor having several stores but having such a huge inventory that it is difficult to keep everything up to date sometimes.
 
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