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DonaBella

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My son is engaged to get married next May. I know that my future daughter-in-law''s family is paying for the place and the food. The problem: my second son has a girlfriend who is extremely shy and hardly ever initiates conversation with my husband, our daughters or my engaged son. She is a sweet girl and just extremely shy--in my opinion. I do agree that she is maybe too shy. My engaged son is possibly thinking of not including her on the invite list and I think that will stir up trouble with my second son whom she is and has been dating for the last 2 years. My hubby is leaning towards excluding her as well. What do I do? Do I talk to my younger son and have him clue in his girlfriend to become more social or do I risk having my younger son not even want to attend his brother''s wedding? I know this issue will cause a rift and I want desperately to avoid it...HELP!
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Jelly

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Is it because of her shyness that she won''t be invited? How big is the wedding? Out of respect for his brother, he should include the girlfriend. Or rather invite his brother and allow him to bring a date/guest to the wedding.

Seems like there might be more to the story?
 

Scintillating

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If it''s going to cause trouble or hurt feelings (and it will) why wouldn''t you invite her?
Two years is quite a while to date someone, excluding her sends the wrong message to her and your son.
She''s just shy - Give her a chance to warm up to your family and feel included.

Scintillating...
 

Tacori E-ring

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If they have been dating for two years she needs to be invited. Like it or not she is an important part of your son''s life and your other son should respect that. I know this from experience. My brother dated a VERY shy girl and to tell the honest truth I did not care for her. Her shyness almost bordered on rudeness. They too dated for several years and she was STILL so uncomfortable with our family. I was very pleased (it is horrible to say) when they broke up. However if they were still together her name would be going on my brother''s invite. That''s what families do, support each other is all decisions, bad and good ones.
 

MelissaSue

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She has to be invited.. No question. She is a significant part of your younger son''s life. In my opinion, if they''ve been dating 2 years, she should be invited as his guest to ANY wedding he''s invited to, especially his brothers!
 

qtiekiki

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If she is not being invited because of the shyness, then I think that''s ridiculous. I can be quite shy around new people and even around my future parents in law because we speak different dialect of Chinese. And I would have been heartbroken and become even more shy if I wasn''t invited to family weddings. It could kill her confident and comfort around the family, making it even harder for her to open up to you guys. I hope your younger son and husband would reconsider especially since she''s been dating your son for 2 years already. But would your younger son and husband tell your soon not to bring his gf? I would assume that he should be allow to bring a guest and they should be the ones who get to choose who he decide to bring. It must be hard for you as a mother to be caught in between, so hopefully things will work out well for you.
 

icekid

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Date: 9/24/2005 1:46:16 AM
Author: MelissaSue
She has to be invited.. No question. She is a significant part of your younger son''s life. In my opinion, if they''ve been dating 2 years, she should be invited as his guest to ANY wedding he''s invited to, especially his brothers!
Totally agree- she must be invited. It would be a slap in face first and foremost to your younger son if she was not invited, and secondly to her as well. After two years, she must be a very important part of your son''s life! Some people are just shy. I''ve never been super comfortable talking with parents of my friends/boyfriends. I''m not generally particularly quiet, but there''s something a little scary about parents
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allycat0303

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Uhmm ok. I''m shy. As a matter of fact I barely conversed with any of my boyfriend''s relatives until 5 years into the relationship. In any case, I was never NOT invited to a function although most of the time I didn''t say two words. People have a different comfort level when talking to people and need time getting there. If you tell her to be more social she is going to feel even more pressured and watched, and most likely become even more introverted.

Is there a culture barrier too? Because that can factor in.

And to be very frank if two years in, my boyfriend''s family would have deliberately excluded me (or I knew they were thinking about it) My pride would have led me to end the relationship. Maybe they thought I was rude, maybe they thought I was a snob, but they were always very welcoming.

Things change. I was the maid of honor at his sister''s wedding. I think it would have been a shame if his parents/family, hadn''t been patient with me.
 

Faerievert

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She should absolutely be invited. Excluding her would send a very painful message to an already shy girl. Out of respect for the brother dating her, she should be included. If he really does care for her, he shouldn''t allow it to be any other way. There''s always the chance she''ll choose not to come, or leave early if she feels uncomfortable, but that should be up to her, not the family. The only exception might be a very very very small wedding involving only relatives. One wear no one would have an outside date.
 

fountainfairfax

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She should be invited and she should be invited by name, not as "Guest."

Who your son choses to date is his decision and after two years I think it''s safe to say he would want her there. Unless she is someone who has caused a terrible problem or conflict in the family to not invite her would be rude & insensitive. Did I love everyone my sister ever dated? Nope. Have there been times I don''t even like the man she chose to marry? Yup.(and I''m sure she could say dito about my choices)
But would I ever not invite a long-term bf or gf? That is just wrong.
 

DonaBella

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Date: 9/24/2005 12:01:30 AM
Author: Jelly
Is it because of her shyness that she won''t be invited? How big is the wedding? Out of respect for his brother, he should include the girlfriend. Or rather invite his brother and allow him to bring a date/guest to the wedding.

Seems like there might be more to the story?
Thanks Jelly for responding...
I feel my hubby and engaged son chiefly feel she should be excluded because she doesn''t socialize with the family when she comes over with my younger son. They feel in the 2 years she has been a part of his life, that there have been enough opportunities for her to "open up" and I do not feel that is fair to her. Everyone''s personality is different and I think since it is so important to them to get to know her or her to know them, they should do the initiating of getting to know her. The wedding guest list will stay at no more than 150 guests total including dates of those attending or significant others.

I cannot tell you how wound up this issue makes me. I plan to spend a large part of the day with my future daughter in law tomorrow at a bridal expo and I plan to talk to her and show her these replies to this delicate matter to sway her opinion. She actually wants my younger son to be happy and not offend anyone. She is a jewel and wants NO ONE to be hurt in any way so I am going to work that angle to persuade my engaged son to "see the light",if you know what I mean.

I cannot thank everyone enough for your help!
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DonaBella

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Date: 9/24/2005 12:43:48 AM
Author: Scintillating
If it''s going to cause trouble or hurt feelings (and it will) why wouldn''t you invite her?
Two years is quite a while to date someone, excluding her sends the wrong message to her and your son.
She''s just shy - Give her a chance to warm up to your family and feel included.

Scintillating...
I agree with you as well...not everyone takes well to a BF''s parents...and some folks are just plain shy and that is just that. She is a great girl of what I have had the priviledge to find out. She IS shy, but because she matters SO much to my younger son, I cannot see excluding her. Its just asking for trouble...

Thanks again...
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DonaBella

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Date: 9/24/2005 12:57:17 AM
Author: Tacori E-ring
If they have been dating for two years she needs to be invited. Like it or not she is an important part of your son''s life and your other son should respect that. I know this from experience. My brother dated a VERY shy girl and to tell the honest truth I did not care for her. Her shyness almost bordered on rudeness. They too dated for several years and she was STILL so uncomfortable with our family. I was very pleased (it is horrible to say) when they broke up. However if they were still together her name would be going on my brother''s invite. That''s what families do, support each other is all decisions, bad and good ones.
Tacori E-ring, I could not agree more...I feel like wedding planning can be so dicey if you are not sensitive to potential hot issues like this one. She IS painfully shy and yet, I really have no issue with that except that it can be perceived that she is a bit aloof--which could NOT be farther from the truth. She is just a very quiet girl. My other sons--16, 15, 13, 10 and 8 years old--hug or say hi to her everytime she is here and she is a doll with them. My hubby is responding to the fact that she is not one to initiate a conversation with him or acknowledge him when he is in the room. Ditto for my engaged son. His fiancee has noticed that she does not start up or contribute much to ongoing conversations--if at all--but she doesn''t want there to be problems at this wedding anymore than I do and she wants her future brother in law happy.

I plan to print these responses out and show both she and my family that it is not just me that feels this way. Thanks for your support!
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DonaBella

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Date: 9/24/2005 8:02:31 AM
Author: icekid

Date: 9/24/2005 1:46:16 AM
Author: MelissaSue
She has to be invited.. No question. She is a significant part of your younger son''s life. In my opinion, if they''ve been dating 2 years, she should be invited as his guest to ANY wedding he''s invited to, especially his brothers!
Totally agree- she must be invited. It would be a slap in face first and foremost to your younger son if she was not invited, and secondly to her as well. After two years, she must be a very important part of your son''s life! Some people are just shy. I''ve never been super comfortable talking with parents of my friends/boyfriends. I''m not generally particularly quiet, but there''s something a little scary about parents
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I could not have said it better...Thank you SO much!
 

DonaBella

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Date: 9/24/2005 11:25:07 AM
Author: fountainfairfax
She should be invited and she should be invited by name, not as ''Guest.''

Who your son choses to date is his decision and after two years I think it''s safe to say he would want her there. Unless she is someone who has caused a terrible problem or conflict in the family to not invite her would be rude & insensitive. Did I love everyone my sister ever dated? Nope. Have there been times I don''t even like the man she chose to marry? Yup.(and I''m sure she could say dito about my choices)
But would I ever not invite a long-term bf or gf? That is just wrong.
Fountainfairfax, what you are talking about is just plain courtesy. I truly agree...

Thank you for your comments!
 

DonaBella

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Date: 9/24/2005 11:06:14 AM
Author: Faerievert
She should absolutely be invited. Excluding her would send a very painful message to an already shy girl. Out of respect for the brother dating her, she should be included. If he really does care for her, he shouldn''t allow it to be any other way. There''s always the chance she''ll choose not to come, or leave early if she feels uncomfortable, but that should be up to her, not the family. The only exception might be a very very very small wedding involving only relatives. One wear no one would have an outside date.
I feel EXACTLY the way you stated it..."Excluding her would send a very painful message to an already shy girl..."

I hope and pray that once I state my concerns on this issue that people in my family do not label me as a troublemaker, but if my engaged son and husband make a stink over my--and YOUR helpful insights--and I am ready to put my foot down and not be a part of this wedding until we can be more sensitive to other family members.

I did talk to my younger son last night when he and his GF were here and suggested that he persuade her to join in the fun by socializing a bit more since my engaged son and his fiancee were over and watching a baseball game. I didn''t feel it was appropriate to mention at that time why. I just want my engaged son to see that she is a wonderful girl and to cut her some slack. I was on my way out the door with my hubby for a bite so I have no idea how things went. I plan to touch base with my younger son and see. Hopefully, it was a start.
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Thanks again for your comments...
 

allycat0303

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Oh last comment about this subject.

Ask your husband and son to ask her direct, yet open ended questions. This might help her talk

i.e. "Tell me about your school/work/family"

Hope it works out for you!
 

aljdewey

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I think it''s wrong to exclude a long-term girlfriend just because they feel she isn''t "social" enough. It''s penalizing her for her *personality*.

If I were the second son, I''d be PISSED.......and it would likely result in my estrangement from my own family for being so insensitive and cruel to my girlfriend.

If they want her to open up, then perhaps they should be making her feel more accepted. Clearly, they don''t like her shyness, and clearly, she feels it. This would be a sure-fire way to ensure it never gets better.

I feel for you, Deanna.....and I''m sure you have the finesse to sway the circumstance to the better solution!
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Mara

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I can't even believe that this is a question...of course they have to invite her!! Esp if they have been dating for two years. Oh my gosh I wouldn't even want to think of the family drama that could be stirred up if she was not invited. Shyness is not a disease....maybe it just takes more time around someone to get past that facade..I know alot of people who are shy at first and then open up afer more time is spent with them and REALLY trying to get to know them.

If she really is that shy, then possibly her BF could try to sit her at a table where she knows someone else or allow her to bring a friend so she could sit with her while the BF/brother is busy with familial duties at the wedding. Personally I think a bit of extra attention here may go a long way in helping her get over her shyness with the family and to show her that you/the family welcome her in rather than will exclude her because she doesn't 'fit in'.
 

icekid

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Date: 9/24/2005 2:10:06 PM
Author: Mara
Personally I think a bit of extra attention here may go a long way in helping her get over her shyness with the family and to show her that you/the family welcome her in rather than will exclude her because she doesn''t ''fit in''.
Totally agree- it''s intimidating to come into such a large family and be outgoing! Tell your husband and son that they need to make the leap to include HER. I''m sure she feels uncomfortable just jumping into the situation.

I especially think the fact that your younger children love her is very telling. Little kids don''t take to mean people like that. She obviously treats them very well. And this shows that she HAS made attempts to interact with your family too!

My ex bf''s parents are Hungarian, and between the fact that they were parents and the language barrier- I was a little shy with them for quite a while! They loved me anyway, b/c they knew that I loved their son (and also because I am going to be a physician haha). But, ex''s nephews completely adored me and preferred spending time with me instead of their uncle!
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gingerBcookie

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Date: 9/24/2005 11:59:43 AM
Author: DeannaBana

Date: 9/24/2005 12:57:17 AM
Author: Tacori E-ring
If they have been dating for two years she needs to be invited. Like it or not she is an important part of your son''s life and your other son should respect that. I know this from experience. My brother dated a VERY shy girl and to tell the honest truth I did not care for her. Her shyness almost bordered on rudeness. They too dated for several years and she was STILL so uncomfortable with our family. I was very pleased (it is horrible to say) when they broke up. However if they were still together her name would be going on my brother''s invite. That''s what families do, support each other is all decisions, bad and good ones.
Tacori E-ring, I could not agree more...I feel like wedding planning can be so dicey if you are not sensitive to potential hot issues like this one. She IS painfully shy and yet, I really have no issue with that except that it can be perceived that she is a bit aloof--which could NOT be farther from the truth. She is just a very quiet girl. My other sons--16, 15, 13, 10 and 8 years old--hug or say hi to her everytime she is here and she is a doll with them. My hubby is responding to the fact that she is not one to initiate a conversation with him or acknowledge him when he is in the room. Ditto for my engaged son. His fiancee has noticed that she does not start up or contribute much to ongoing conversations--if at all--but she doesn''t want there to be problems at this wedding anymore than I do and she wants her future brother in law happy.

I plan to print these responses out and show both she and my family that it is not just me that feels this way. Thanks for your support!
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You could be describing me instead of your second son''s girlfriend! I am PAINFULLY shy. Initially (note this "initially" spans the time of 5 years) I did not initiate conversation with my BFs parents, did not speak unless spoken to first, answered questions with short, simple sentences, did not pursue conversation...why? because I was TERRIFIED. I just did not know what to say! I have no skill for small talk and was so scared of syaing something wrong or inappropriate that I prefered to sit quietly and not say anything at all. My saving grace was my FI''s little sister (who was 3 when I forst met her -- 20 year age differnce between my FI and her
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) who adored me. I spoke to her and played with her more, and she slowly drew me into the family. They realized if she liked me, it couldn''t be too bad
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and continued to try to draw me out. So there is VAST improvement, but it took a LONG time, and I still do not converse as much as I should.

It might help to draw her aside discreetly and kind of bring up the subject of her shyness, in a non-accusatory, just questioning friendly kind of way. It always helped me when people did that. I always knew that my shyness often came across as aloofness, or snobbery, and would be desperate to try to convey that I am not, but felt powerless to do so. I wanted an oppurtunity to explain my shyness but it''s impossible to just bring it up myself.

I would have been DEVASTATED to have not been invited and would have drawn even further away. Please please please get your family to think about this. Good luck!
 

ame

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Date: 9/24/2005 12:57:17 AM
Author: Tacori E-ring
If they have been dating for two years she needs to be invited. Like it or not she is an important part of your son''s life and your other son should respect that..
Totally agree.
 

yellowfan

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How old is the girlfriend?


It would be very hurtful to them not to include her. I'd rather have a shy guest than a loud rude guest.
 

DonaBella

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Gosh...I feel so blessed to have such great PS friends to help with this sensitive issue!
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I cannot thank each and everyone of you for your kind and candid thoughts...I think approaching my younger son''s girlfriend is a SUPER idea...I am sorry to say I just plain didn''t think of it. I personally do not have any issue with her shyness. It seems that since our son got engaged and the whole food and $ issue came up, it really was not any more than a minor social thing--to me anyway. Now, with the planning starting, the question of including her is simply based on what is perceived to be a lack of socializing.

It really is a difficult place for me to be in. Honest. I know its not my place to dictate how things are supposed to happen but on this issue, as I mentioned earlier, I WILL put my foot down and stand firm that she MUST be and WILL be included. Our second daughter has been dating a young man off and on for a little less than 2 years and they are including him--based on the fact that they "accept him" more(my perception. He is shy as well, but does better in a large group setting--which--hello--my family is all by itself. Its not fair that they accept him so readily and not my second son''s girlfriend. THAT is what I plan to bring up to my engaged son when he gets messed up over this matter when I bring it up.

Thanks to all of you, I feel much more empowered to confront my engaged son and my hubby.

WIsh me luck...I plan to do this sometime tomorrow evening.
 

lilyinct

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Good luck to you with your conversation!

My brothers girlfriend was extremely shy for almost 2 years....in fact, my mother and I were convinced she was a snob b/c she never uttered a word....until one night we saw her after she had a little to drink...finally knew the girl could talk.

After that point, my mom invited her over to our home a lot, and finally, almost a year later, she is speaking freely...she is definitely more comfortable with us, and we''ve gotten to know and love her.

Give her a chance, she just needs some time to come out of her shell.
 

AmberGretchen

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I was so shy and awkward around my FI''s family when we first started dating - when his mom and grandma took me wedding dress shopping a few months ago, his grandma confessed to me they didn''t like me much at first because I was so stiff, but now they like me a lot and accept me as part of the family.

I agree with everything that has been said re: the etiquette of the situation and wish you the best of luck in working it out.

One thing that might help to is to talk to the son who has the shy girlfriend and find out what you or your hubby or other family members can do to make her feel more comfortable - my FI''s mom did this and several things changed the next time I visited that really helped (they gave us a bit more time alone - it always makes me more comfortable when I can have at least some private time with my FI, other things like that). Also, it made me feel more comfortable when FI''s mom made it clear she was trying to welcome me - she started getting food I liked for when I came over (I''m a vegetarian and other stuff like that. Anyway, I don''t know if that helps, but those are some things that helped in my case.

Best of luck and keep us posted on how it goes.
 

hearts set

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Your son should be invited with a guest...without question.

Who he chooses to bring is up to him.

To deliberately exclude her isn''t in good taste, imo.
 

DonaBella

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Well, I thought I would update everyone of what has happened so far...

I got bold and brought my hubby to my pc and showed him this thread I started on this delicate issue. He read everyone''s responses and still feels that our second son''s GF needs to realize or be made aware that he interprets her shyness as rudeness.

I am SO worried!
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I especially appreciated GingerBrookie''s response and had my hubby read and re-read her reply and how poignant it was...I felt. Nonetheless, he feels that if she--my second son''s GF--does not start to get more aware and begin to open up at least a tiny bit, then he will share with her that he feels she is rude. I want to slap him silly for this, but I know he has the right to feel as he wants to. I am SO pulled!
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I know my husband has the right to feel offended that this girl is not acknowledging him when she is in our home. That is his right, but at the same time, I feel that you cannot coerce people to feel or act the way they can''t or aren''t...I don''t know if I am making any sense here.
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After showing my hubby the responses, I told him I would check out the video rentals while he ordered the kids pizza and I left. I called our younger son and talked with him on my cell as I drove to the video rental store about this issue and his GF. I gently but directly advised him to broach the subject with his GF and make her aware of how she is completely welcome in our home and I want very much personally to get to know her better and that I would love for my husband and other family members to get to know her as well. I especially underscored to my second son that since she was so important to him, that she is important to me and that was why I was speaking to him about this. I also mentioned that his older brother was getting the distinct impression that his GF didn''t want to converse with him or anyone else and that was not sitting well and that with us narrowing down whom to invite to this intimate wedding of 150 invitees, I was sure he would want his GF there and that for sure if things didn''t change, that was probably not going to happen. Second son took it VERY well and I assured him I had no hidden agenda, nor did I think any less of his GF for not being any more than who she has been.

I did stress the sense of urgency for him to share this info with his GF because we truly ARE working on the guest list--rather my engaged son and his fiancee are--and I do not want to risk this becoming a huge disaster. My husband feels that the decision to include her is left only to the engaged pair but I feel we have a say in this. Am I correct to feel this way? Don''t I have a say in whom I would like to include or exclude with regard to this wedding? I feel I do as the mother of the groom!
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Her family, yes, is paying for a healthy chunk of the wedding, but--hello--we are paying for an open house either at our home or the church later after their honeymoon, the videographer, the rental of the tuxes and the honeymoon itself. THAT list is NOT cheap by ANY means!

Sorry for becoming so emotional, but it IS emotional for me...damn it, its our first family wedding and I do not want trivial selfishness to get in the way of all of this...

If anyone has ANY other ideas of how to get through my THICK husband''s head that our second son''s GF is not deliberately trying to be rude to him or anyone else, PLEASE let me know...

I am SO worried
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icekid

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oh lord, no offense- but slap your husband for me! If my parents told my bf of two years that they thought he was rude and did not want him at a siblings''s wedding because he was quiet, I would probably stop speaking to my parents!

What makes your husband think it''s fine for him to be RUDE to her, because he views her quietness as snobby?!?!

I feel for you, Deanna! Because this is starting to bother ME. How can anyone be so clueless??? And your husband finds it appropriate to go out of his way to push her back into her shyness by calling her rude?

I do think you should have some say who is invited to the wedding, especially in a situation like this. We''re not talking about a girlfriend of yours whom no one knows. I think your best bet might be to appeal to your son''s fiancee (show HER this thread), because the men in your family appear to lack empathy in this situation.
 

hearts set

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The personality of this girl would offend and irk me, as well.

Shy people can be very courteous and make the effort to be gracious. I can think of one painfully shy husband of one of my dearest and best friends. He TRIES! He turns red, but he makes eye contact, he asks how I am doing, what is going on in my life. Over the years it''s gotten easier for him...but I always appreciated his effort.

It''s rude not to acknowledge someone''s presence in their own home. Plain rude. There is no excuse other than this girl has no decent breeding.

Still, I say, the decision has to be up to your son (the boyfriend of rudegirl) whether to bring her or not.

Put on his invite....To son and guest

For sure, she will wonder why she wasn''t invited by name and will question your son about it.

THat will be your oportunity to politely say "well, son, we weren''t sure that she would be interested in our special event since she makes it clear that she has nothing to say to us...we can''t imagine why she would want to spend an entire evening with us....we thought this way would give her an easy out if you wanted to bring someone else to spare her and evening of torture with our family"

PUT IT DIRECTLY IN HER LAP....NEVER EVER say. that you find her rude, that you don''t like her, that you don''t welcome her...this way your son won''t be offended by your judgement of her (which she deserves, but love is blind remember) He can only be offended by her treatment of his loving family...that won''t fly for long.

Maybe her parents never insisted that she had to be gracious. And now she is an adult, she comes off like someone who was raised in a barn.

It''s ashame, but I think it''s common. Young women especially are taught to adorn themselves physically, but not to carve out for themselves a charming personality...She could easily win your husbands heart, but it''s likely she doesn''t know how and she doesn''t know that she''s supposed to even care.

Maybe your loving influence can do some good. You never know...there may be a very good reason your paths have crossed.
 
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