Anyone ever go on theknot.com and read....

[weemodin]

Postings about diamonds? It cracks me up.
So many girls on there brag away about their D VVS engagment rings etc. and how they''re so much prettier because they''re D VVS. I''ve gotten some funny "poor you" replies when I''ve said I have an (ideal cut) I SI1.
Do you think they know their FI got ripped off? Just curious.

I guess there''s no point in educating them now, but man, do I feel lucky to have done my homework with FI!

 

[Nicrez]

That's when you sit back and just chuckle. And when you have extra $$$ in the bank, or a bigger rock with the same amount of $$$, you just sit back and chuckle. It's great to learn the mystery of "cut", isn't it?!

Hey, I had some whacko of a girl see my ring, and say it's lovely that she likes princesses. I corrected her and said it was a Radiant, and she said, "No, it's a princess. My fiance and I looked into those." I looked at her, and simply nodded and said, "hmmm...Maybe...but I just like it."

my instinct was to slap her, but something held me back...pity.

 

[weemodin]

You should have smacked her with your big radiant diamond.

It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant the average diamond owning woman (or diamond purchasing man or woman) is about diamonds.

Do these same people buy a car without research?

 

[Nicrez]

Likely. And they may pay over sticker or buy those great "extended warranties and super upgrades" that add nothing to the car, but add to their wallet. OR, they just buy a name brand car and waste all their money leasing or financing to find out they own more than they got out of it.

The knot makes me laugh. Everyone has thier topics, so I may sound like an absolute fool in the wedding etiquette field, but c'est la vie!

As for the diamond fools, that's when I would post a link to this site and say, "Here you go hun, welcome to the party! Try not to cry..."

 

[Mara]

What's funny is when people look at you like you have grown a 2nd head when you say that you know alot about diamonds, or more accurately, when Greg tells someone that I know alot about diamonds, they look at me and ask 'you do?'. Like they are privately thinking...'what is there to know about diamonds? They sparkle.' I just nod and smile. It's too hard to explain all the details in one quick sentence...I usually mumble something about cutting, facets and 'math' and then flash them with my sparkly ring, they become appropriately mesmerized and the conversation is over. Heehee.

 

[sumi]

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On 4/20/2004 1:14:24 PM weemodin wrote:

Postings about diamonds? It cracks me up.
So many girls on there brag away about their D VVS engagment rings etc. and how they're so much prettier because they're D VVS. I've gotten some funny 'poor you' replies when I've said I have an (ideal cut) I SI1.
Do you think they know their FI got ripped off? Just curious.

I guess there's no point in educating them now, but man, do I feel lucky to have done my homework with FI!
----------------

Wow, that's pretty harsh. How do you know that they got ripped off? Believe it or not, some people actually WANT a D/VVS. What's wrong with that? You're preferences may not be the same as theirs. Isn't that why diamonds are so cool? You can mix and match the 4 C's to find a combination that you like.

(By the way, I haven't seen you around here lately weemodin. Good to see you!)

 

[Mara]

no one has said a thing here about wanting or not wanting D VVS.




but to say that your D VVS is prettier because it's D VVS and to say 'poor you' to an I SI owner...makes it QUITE OBVIOUS that these gals don't know their ass from their ring, and therefore it stands to reason their fiances are the same, shopped at a B&M and DID get ripped off. seems logical.

 

[sumi]

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On 4/20/2004 4:15:45 PM Mara wrote:


no one has said a thing here about wanting or not wanting D VVS.


but to say that your D VVS is prettier because it's D VVS and to say 'poor you' to an I SI owner...makes it QUITE OBVIOUS that these gals don't know their ass from their ring, and therefore it stands to reason their fiances are the same, shopped at a B&M and DID get ripped off. seems logical.

----------------

Actually, no it does not seem logical because of comments like this:

"You should have smacked her with your big radiant diamond.

It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant the average diamond owning woman (or diamond purchasing man or woman) is about diamonds.

Do these same people buy a car without research?"


Why is it logical to assume that someone doesn't know what they are doing if they buy a D/VVS?

 

[Nicrez]

Ahhh Sumi, you're just saying that because you're Asian, and as we all know Asians all like D, VVS's!

Kidding, please not throwing things at me (unless they are sparkly rocks...

)

A D, VVS1 or 2 is a waste of money if the person WANTED something else, or if they do not value the stone at the price they paid. That's it.

I got a high colored stone because I am a color snob. I COULD have gotten a lower color, but we BOTH felt it was well worth our (his) money. The VVS2 was just a by product of the shortage we saw, so we snatched it up, extra clarity and all. I would have prefered a VS2, to gain in size, but who cares now?!

I saw a decently cut 1.71 princess today which looked SOOOO much smaller than my 1.73. Made me puff out my chest. That said, our stone was just what we wanted, I love it, big table and ALL! That's my story and I am sticking to it!

So the gals on The Knot can claim their stones are "the best' because maybe to THEM, they are! but I think what Weemodin is saying is that if they came here and learned a bit more about the importance of cut, they may not be claiming that with such enthusiasm...

 

[Mara]

welll if we really want to delve into semantics....




sumi you quoted wee's original post with your 'that's really harsh' comment. I responded to that saying that her logic seemed fine to me (meaning in that particular quote). Then you noted that, no, it wasn't logical because of her OTHER post, which you then quoted...where she noted that people were ignorant about diamonds. Somehow, again, that comment seemed to translate to you as meaning D VVS buyers.




Honestly, why the D VVS sensitivity. Do you really think ANYONE actually cares if someone buys D VVS? Let me answer that for everyone here. NO.




The point behind this entire post is that people DON'T know any better and ARE for the most part generally ignorant. End of story. It has nothing to do with a D VVS purchase or a Z VVVVVSSS for that matter. Different strokes for different folks but 99% of the population IS absolutely, horribly ignorant about diamonds and it leads them to think that princesses are radiants and that D VVS means it sparkles more. That ignorance fact is not irrefutable.

 

[pyramid]

As diamonds are a psychological thing, you know a diamond is forever, love, symbolism and all that I think the people who buy vvs, very high colour diamonds are looking at it that way also. This is natures most perfect diamond under the grading loupe (well a D FL is). Maybe they see it that although cut is what makes the diamond sparkle the most this is manmade. I was a bit disappointed when I found out that diamonds were not really sparkly when they came out of the ground. Historically we are told that diamonds were chosen for their hardness, unconquerable and the earliest diamonds were not even faceted but set as octahedra with the culet side on top. I do not know if colour and clarity came into it then or not but cut had nothing at all to do with it. Then diamonds were still popular amongst the noble and rich when they were cut in table cuts and rose cuts etc so cut although important was not as precise as todays ideal cut.

Psychology aside though to the naked eye Cut is the most important of the Cs ofcourse and most of the public do not know this and as Mara said think diamonds are just diamonds - as seen in the jewellery store window, they do all kinda look alike afterall under the bright lights. As someone once said these lights would make a bottle sparkle. After the diamond is bought most people do not keep it spotless so they don't know how a well cut diamond should sparkle. I have a small dress ring with single cut diamonds and when it is under the sunlight I could not imagine it having more sparke but in normal indoor lighting and daylight it is just small diamond chips. However another question is if we are looking at it from the naked eye perspective should carat weight not be the second most important C as cut should mask the colour in the face up postion and also the clarity.

Most jewellers I have spoken to, trained people (don't know how much they know about cut) have said that Colour should be before Clarity though and Carat weight least important. As lots of people buy from their local jewellers this is probably what they are being told so they judge the Cut, Colour and Clarity above Carat weight and as Cut is not usually gone into by local jewellers they assume Colour and Clarity to be more important than anything else.

 

[sumi]

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On 4/20/2004 4:39:16 PM Mara wrote:


welll if we really want to delve into semantics....


sumi you quoted wee's original post with your 'that's really harsh' comment. I responded to that saying that her logic seemed fine to me (meaning in that particular quote). Then you noted that, no, it wasn't logical because of her OTHER post, which you then quoted...where she noted that people were ignorant about diamonds. Somehow, again, that comment seemed to translate to you as meaning D VVS buyers.


Honestly, why the D VVS sensitivity. Do you really think ANYONE actually cares if someone buys D VVS? Let me answer that for everyone here. NO.


The point behind this entire post is that people DON'T know any better and ARE for the most part generally ignorant. End of story. It has nothing to do with a D VVS purchase or a Z VVVVVSSS for that matter. Different strokes for different folks but 99% of the population IS absolutely, horribly ignorant about diamonds and it leads them to think that princesses are radiants and that D VVS means it sparkles more. That ignorance fact is not irrefutable.

----------------

I don't know how to quote more than one post at a time. That's why I only showed weemodin's first quote. I can only quote one post, then paste the other. But, when you just copy/paste the second quote you don't get all that good info like who wrote the original answer and when it was written. If anyone has any tips, that would be great.

[here I go...copy/pasting!]
..."Do you really think ANYONE actually cares if someone buys D VVS? Let me answer that for everyone here. NO."....

Err...SOMEONE obviously cares because we have a whole thread devoted to the subject here with several posters answering it.


My point is that you DON'T know what motivated people to buy whatever diamond they chose. Sure, there are people that may not have known everything there is to know about diamonds before they chose their stone. But, I'm sure there are many others that did a good amount of research and then chose a D/VVS. What's wrong with that? We don't know anything about the cut of these people's stones, but people are already knocking them.

We don't know how much of the population is ignorant about diamonds, so that "fact" IS refutable. Maybe it's the lawyer in me, but I'm not going to believe anything as a fact unless I see proof from a reliable source.

Just because people don't make the same choices as you, doesn't make it wrong. Some people are not going to be happy with certain color/clarity grades. Some people are not going to be happy with a certain carat size. So? We're happy with our own stones, so why dump on other people's happiness?

It's not a D/VVS sensitivity. It's just more of a sensitivity towards respecting other people's choices about their own stone. You may believe that they made an uninformed decision, but frankly we have no idea what went in to choosing their stone. I'm not going to pass judgment on someone because they made a choice that I wouldn't have made.



Geez Nicrez, we all know that Asians like D/IF! Please!

 

[Mara]

sumi...it's not about D VVS or about making your choice. have at your choice, and love it...great.






but saying people are ignorant is a fact...98% of the world are idiots. proof? look around! people walk into jewelry stores all the time and ask a jeweler what he thinks & that is their idea of 'doing research'. buying the first or 2nd stone they see. that's doing research. then they come to a forum like this IF they are lucky, and ask if it's nice. how many of those type posts do we get around here? alot. and what about those who never even find their way here?? there are tons out there. and then they make comments like your radiant is really a princess or my D VVS is more sparkly than your I SI. ignorant!




to me that is what wee was REALLY speaking about, the D VVS was just an example. however, that small semantic seemed to be the focus of the resulting posts.




let weemodin have her little vent...what is the deal with the morality police chiming in? she came here to the diamond forum to vent, it's not like she took all the knot gals to task..? as for passing judgement, wee noted the D VVS gals were doing that to her I SI...i can definitely see why she'd feel the need to vent.

 

[sumi]

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On 4/20/2004 8:05:45 PM Mara wrote:


sumi...it's not about D VVS or about making your choice. have at your choice, and love it...great.



but saying people are ignorant is a fact...98% of the world are idiots. proof? look around! people walk into jewelry stores all the time and ask a jeweler what he thinks & that is their idea of 'doing research'. buying the first or 2nd stone they see. that's doing research. then they come to a forum like this IF they are lucky, and ask if it's nice. if that is not buying under the ignorant influence, I don't know what is. how many of those type posts do we get around here? alot. and what about those who never even find their way here?? there are tons out there.


to me that is what wee was REALLY speaking about, the D VVS was just an example. however, that small semantic seemed to be the focus of the resulting posts.


let weemodin have her little vent...what is the deal with the morality police chiming in? she came here to the diamond forum to vent, it's not like she took all the knot gals to task..? as for passing judgement, wee noted the D VVS gals were doing that to her I SI...i can definitely see why she'd feel the need to vent.
----------------

Like I said, I won't take anything as fact unless I see proof from a reliable source. I'm not going to pass judgment on 98% of the diamond purchases out there.



I will definitely agree that weemodin should have a place to vent if people on other boards are judging her for her stone. But, aren't we basically doing the same thing? Passing judgment on other people's stone, regardless of whether its a D/VVS or an I/SI?


Well, if I'm the morality police then I will certainly wear that hat with pride. There are a lot worse things to be than the morality police.......hmmm....I'm looking for one of those smiley faces with a police hat, but I just can't see one....this will have to do

 

[Mara]

"There are a lot worse things to be than the morality police"




Like a lawyer?! /idealbb/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif I don't believe that you are one...you seem too kind-hearted.

 

[sumi]

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On 4/20/2004 8:24:00 PM Mara wrote:


'There are a lot worse things to be than the morality police'


Like a lawyer?! /idealbb/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif I don't believe that you are one...you seem too kind-hearted.

----------------

Believe me, I was a LOT nicer before law school. I'm still a new lawyer, just give me some time and I'll probably become a little more grumpy with age.

 

[Daniela]

Back to the original posters question...Yes, I have read these posts on wedding forums! And the girls are always like, "Oooh, D VVS, it must really sparkle." And I have to hold myself back (it doesn't take much since the only forum I bother to post on is Pricescope).

I have to say that the misconception about what causes sparkle is huge.

 

[Kay]

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On 4/20/2004 8:24:00 PM Mara wrote:


'There are a lot worse things to be than the morality police'


Like a lawyer?! /idealbb/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif I don't believe that you are one...you seem too kind-hearted.

----------------

Whoa . . . no lawyer bashing on PS, please. This is where I come to relax between projects. Lawyers like diamonds too, so we must be a little bit human.

 

[Nicrez]

Yes, and knowing the field quite well, with a large majority of my friends being lawyers I know they are very very good at pretending to be human. (Just kidding)

And by the way, another funny Diamond Savant story to share...I was (as usual) peering away at stones and settings at lunch, when I overheard a couple looking at a .50ct oval, G, VVS1. They had done some homework, but the sales lady said, "Frankly, in my opinion, ovals sparkle like rounds to me, except they are just longer, so that's the best shaped cut to get. It's cut JUST like a round brilliant, but longer, you know...? Plus a colorless G is the best color to get, and with a VVS1, you have NO imperfections almost, like a flawless, but just a better deal, you know? Anything lower will be all junky inside!"
I approached the couple and complimented them on the stone but whispered to the girl that if she went searching online (dropped PriceScope's name) she'll find out about better deals than what she was looking at, and maybe increase the size, as she had lightly mentioned to her fiance...Poor thing! They looked like they were sucked into this Diamond Savant's web!

I swear I should get business cards with PS on them and just start walking up and down the Diamond District...Maybe wear a whole huge set of sparklers and a sign(written in diamonds on an evening gown) mentioning the site...Leonid? Sponsorship?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

----------------
Leonid? Sponsorship?

----------------

This is a good idea. Seriously, print up card for us all to send out. There's been times when I've wanted to suggest to consumers that they look here and read up before purchasing, but haven't done so yet. . .It would be more presentable having a card to back up this advice

Michelle

 

[wallace]

I looked here, got edumacated (not a typo but a joke), and then bought a higher colour and clarity! I agree that there is snobbism amongst some on PS about poeple who choose to buy above G and above SI1! THe snobbism is not - as you all defensively state - that you care (of course you're not jealous - your stones sparkle too, and less expensively or with more weight) - it is that you all seem to assume that anyone who has made such a purchase is a complete ignoramus who deserves to be taken advantage of and laughed at for it. They may simply have more available funds (for whatever reason - saving up their whole life or they're rich - whatever) or they may have a different sense of aesthetics.

I thought the point about PS was to eduacate people - instead of ridiculing people like that you should instruct. Why don't you get a card for PS? Invitong such people to join you would be better than laughing at people.

Or, if you choose to look at it another way, you can still have the last laugh but not at the expense of someone else. You can, in a mature manner, agree to disagree. If everyone is educated about their purchase and then you can turn and laugh with firnedship and not disdain - and say, as long as you want the VVS and VS stones, there's more SI's out there for me and less competition to get them - You pay more so I can pay less! Thanks.

 

[Nicrez]

Education is not about agreement, it's about learning each perspective, and using that to further your own goals.

What person would claim to be educated if they have never heard of the Big Bang Theory OR the Creation Theory.

You can be educated and believe in either, or a combination of both, but the true meaning of education has nothing to do agreement with facts, as much as knowing each position, knowing the basis of each position, and then making an educated theory or belief of your own.

So, if someone can learn the points of buying a H, SI1 being a good bargain, and the points of buying a rare D, VVS1, then their education is knowing the opportunity costs of purchasing either, and then making a decision they are happy with, based on those costs.

We can all live together, the SI1 people and the VVS1 people...Well just be like a loud arguing family, but in the end, we all love diamonds, any shape, color, clarity and carat!

Oh and we demand pictures.

 

[weemodin]

Wow, this thread grew legs..

I have nothing against anyone who chooses to purchase a D VVS stone, or any other stone for that matter. I just feel sorry for people who buy D VVS because they think they will look vastly superior to the average viewer than, say, an eyeclean G-H-I SI1.

Obviously, if someone goes into a purchase having done their research and specifically requests a D IF etc. they aren't getting ripped off if they have their own reasons for wanting a D IF. They are, however, getting ripped off if they go into a store and come out with a D IF or VVS because the salesperson talked them into the higher clarity and color combo by telling them that "anything below VVS will look nasty etc."

However, I do stand behind my assertion that the average person doesn't know very much about diamonds. I am the only one of my friends who even knows the color and clarity grades of diamonds by memory, nevermind the specific cut parameters for RB, princess and radiant diamonds. You get the idea.
Many of my engaged/married friends have no idea what cut/color/clarity their diamond is -- not that i've asked, but they've mentioned that they don't know.

And several of my male friends, while discussing their search for engagement rings, have started sentences with the dreaded, "I was in Zales the other day looking at diamonds...."
Or, alternately (and I know it's not friday),
"So I've got one ring on hold at Tiffany's and another on hold at Bailey Banks and Biddle"

Usually, upon hearing this, I'll tactfully put in a plug for my jeweler and for pricescope.

The point of this thread was not to criticize people for their choices per se, but rather to lament the apparent lack of research that went into those choices. Maybe I'm wrong about their lack of research, but I doubt it!

 

[Mara]

I honestly don't think anyone ridicules anyone else for buying D VVS as an educated decision. But as wee pointed out, saying your D VVS sparkles so much more just because its a D VVS is an absolutely ignorant statement and was the jist of the creation of the thread.




Some people just don't want to be educated. I have a gal friend who loves diamonds and is convinced that her jeweler knows best. Okay but what about these tools..and online HCA etc...she doesn't want to hear it. In fact she thinks I'm nuts. She most likely also thinks that D VVS is great because it's so 'quality'. I don't even bother trying to tell her anything about my knowledge anymore because she thinks I'm a wackjob.

 

[verticalhorizon]

You are wack job, Mara. We're ALL wack jobs. I think I'm going to have to take a PS.com vacation when my ring is done so I don't go completely insane.

Is there something like a methodone-clinic for PS.com addicts? Is there a 12 step program?

 

[hoorray]

I don't know VH...now that you are a cut rock, you might not be able to tear yourself away for a PS vacation!

and yes, Mara, you are a wack job, but you are our wack job

.

 

[katbadness]

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On 4/28/2004 7:06:49 PM lop wrote:


I don't know VH...now that you are a cut rock, you might not be able to tear yourself away for a PS vacation!

----------------

Oh no... is that what 'Cut Rock' means? That you're certifiably addicted???????

 

[Mara]

haha well i am in good wackjob company i guess!

tearing yourself away from pscope is HARD...vacation...weekend..whatever. even if I don't feel like typing a post, I just stroll through the threads and read up for 15 minutes or so. it's definitely a sickness.




a sparkly..beautiful..faceted..symmetrical...sickness.

 

[Peanut]

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On 4/20/2004 8:05:45 PM Mara wrote:


sumi...it's not about D VVS or about making your choice. have at your choice, and love it...great.



but saying people are ignorant is a fact...98% of the world are idiots. proof? look around! people walk into jewelry stores all the time and ask a jeweler what he thinks & that is their idea of 'doing research'. buying the first or 2nd stone they see. that's doing research. then they come to a forum like this IF they are lucky, and ask if it's nice. how many of those type posts do we get around here? alot. and what about those who never even find their way here?? there are tons out there. and then they make comments like your radiant is really a princess or my D VVS is more sparkly than your I SI. ignorant!


to me that is what wee was REALLY speaking about, the D VVS was just an example. however, that small semantic seemed to be the focus of the resulting posts.


let weemodin have her little vent...what is the deal with the morality police chiming in? she came here to the diamond forum to vent, it's not like she took all the knot gals to task..? as for passing judgement, wee noted the D VVS gals were doing that to her I SI...i can definitely see why she'd feel the need to vent.
----------------

Holy cow what a snob you are, Mara! I suppose you are in the 2% of people that are not idiots? I am so disgusted to read such posts on here. I am a newbie and I am now reminded WHY I don't get involved with chats and boards. Would you say that at a party where you are face to face with society? Highly doubtful. I feel what you said is quite rude and arrogant. You are not a diamond expert and flaming people for buying from a B&M is absolutely ludicrous. I for one bought an ideal D VVS2 from a B&M and paid less than what they are going for online. BECAUSE I was educated when I walked in. I chose to be educated. It does not make me smarter than 98% of people. Gee, Mara, since you are so diamond smart are you trading them?

The majority of diamond buyers do not know there is so much invoved, this I agree, but that is because luxury is not priority for education, for most people. I ask you, do you know how to read contracts and understand them legally? Did you know EVERYTHING about your home contract, inside and out, without depending on a lawyer? Did you sign a lease not knowing your rights? I am sure you did! Some depend on jewelers for knowledge like some depend on Doctors, lawyers, etc for THEIR knowledge. It's all preference, and I am sure there ar many professions you know NOTHING about because you simply don't care enough...are you a fool?

 

[Mara]

actually Peanut, I would venture to say you don't do chat boards and the like because you are WAY too easily excited...

this IS a diamond forum...so of course I am a diamond snob! goes with the 6k post territory.

but since you asked, I am a researcher by nature. I don't buy or do a thing without researching it to death first. a couch, a mortgage...a doctors prognosis...DIAMONDS....everything gets scrutiny with me. i'm an equal opportunity scrutinizer. do i trust what someone says just because they have a degree or owns a shop? NO WAY. i will follow-up and check up on it myself. if that means i think i am in the other 2%...then i guess so.




ignorance is bliss.