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Your car is watching you...

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,045
Saw this story the other day (hopefully it's readable outside the UK):


The gist of the article is that the Land Rover in question was sending data back to LR HQ via the (built-in?) SIM card about times and dates of use, location, opening and closing of doors and the boot/trunk... to the extent that the Police used the data to convict a killer.


Convicting a criminal is a good thing, naturally, but I don't understand why LR (and other manufacturers) are harvesting this data (and other data such as engine fault codes) for no particular reason.

What possible use is information on a user's location and when the doors are open to a vehicle company that is, presumably, looking to keep track of mileage (to prevent clocking) and understand vehicle fleet faults that might need addressing??

Why do our movements need to be tracked so that we can have our entire lives/movements reconstructed?

I presume it's tied to the EU's aim of built-in speed limiters and '100% enforcement of transgressions remotely' (or words to that effect) by 2022...


One more reason why I won't be buying a new(er) 'smart' phone or a new(er) car with GPS/Sat Nav built in!
 

dk168

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
5,345
I said it before, and my sentiment remains the same to this day, in that there is nothing to worry about when I have nothing to hide.

My car is easily recognised due to its custom colour combination. Same as the car before.

Not a shy person as can be reflected by my liking of colourful clothing and cars.

DK :bigsmile:
 

Austina

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 24, 2017
Messages
3,854
I’m in the same camp as dk168, I’m not doing anything illegal, so I’m not bothered. I used to have a bright yellow car, so hardly unnoticeable :lol:
 

Gussie

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
2,593
@OoohShiny we are definitely in agreement on privacy concerns. It is so disturbing that "they" can track our every move. The argument that "I have nothing to hide" isn't even relevant imo. The right to privacy is up there with freedom of speech in my book. The propensity for abuse scares the hell out of me.

As I type this on my smartphone... :wall:
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
31,112
Yanno, there are so many things in life to worry about and be leery of and like many I find this disturbing.

However, I only have so much energy to deal with stuff as it comes my way so I must pick and choose where to spend my energy. And like @dk168 and @Austina I just cannot work myself up enough about this despite the fact it disturbs me.

I will not stop using my devices and enjoying my hobbies and because I am not doing anything criminal I can live with this.

Do I like it? No. Does it erode our freedom? Not sure. Probably but as with everything there is a trade off in life and IIRC I started a thread about this very topic.

Which is more important to you?

 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
31,112
@OoohShiny we are definitely in agreement on privacy concerns. It is so disturbing that "they" can track our every move. The argument that "I have nothing to hide" isn't even relevant imo. The right to privacy is up there with freedom of speech in my book. The propensity for abuse scares the hell out of me.

As I type this on my smartphone... :wall:
I hear you girlfriend. I hear you and I agree the propensity for abuse is scary as heck. And right to privacy is a nice right but not sure it is really a right anymore in our "brave new world" so to speak...
 

StephanieLynn

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 2, 2016
Messages
5,334
At this point I feel like there are so many ways to be tracked/watched/spied on it's just endless. I don't have anything to hide but hate the idea that nothing is private anymore.

I read an article that Americans would give FB personal data for $3.50 a month, Germans $8 a month, so privacy is not really valued like it used to be. I find that laughable anyways, why is FB going to pay people for information they get for free currently?
 

Alex T

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
4,726
Well my thinking is that if something happened to me, carjacked, in a accident, I’d be mighty glad they could track where I was.
Exactly this. I don't do anything exciting that would warrant the police to be investigating my data, but should I go off road in an accident in a remote place & wasn't able to either use my phone or press the in-car SOS Alert button, i would be very thankful that somebody could ping my location & rescue me.
 

lyra

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
4,784
It would only show me going to 1 of 3 places. Grocery store and 2 other stores. All less than 10km from my home. Some under 2 km. I am not concerned. I also agree with the "I'm not doing anything wrong" approach to life anyway.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,493
All of the "not doing anything wrong" people -

Given that there was just a thread recently about a member here who have a stalker - do you feel just as comfortable about the data knowing how easily employees can get it and how easily data breaches can happen? I certainly don't. If the company has the data, pretty much anyone who is motivated to get it can get it, and I don't trust "pretty much anyone who is motivated to get it" with all the data about my life.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,961
If you have a mobile phone and use a credit or bank issued card they know where you were at any given point in time (your mobile “pings” off transmission poles) and how and where you are spending your money. That’s modern technology for you.
Like others I’m not overly concerned about my lack of privacy. I’m not buying anything illegal, not going or doing anything illegal. However if I was kidnapped or murdered I would be very happy that the authorities could track my last movements and activities in an effort to locate me or my body. I’d be very happy if my kidnapper or murderer could be brought to justice by using evidence created by my or his/her electronic devices or card usage.
I don’t even disagree with equipment that can monitor or control your car usage. I will be happy if the people who are doing illegal and dangerous activities like speeding can be prevented or detected and “stopped” even if a police car doesn’t “catch them in action”. If the speed limit is 70 miles per hour and cars travelling on said road are remotely and electronically limited to 70 miles per hour, that’s not a bad thing in my opinion.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
27,733
I strongly support using technology to stop crime, be it murder or speeding.
I'm sick of people driving unsafely.
90.27% of drivers speed.
I'd be in heaven if every driver got a speeding ticket in the mail every time they exceeded the speed limit.
Maybe they'd learn that 40 MPH is a maximum, not a minimum.

Next, tailgating.
Put sensors and cameras in both bumpers of every car.
People who tailgate (again 90.27% of all drivers) will get a ticket in the mail.

Next, all cars should have jamming devices so cellphones (even those of passengers) don't work when the car is moving, unless the call is to 911.

I cherish my privacy for nearly everything, but I will gladly give it up to make driving safer for all.
People don't have the right to break the law. :angryfire:
Don't like a law? Work to get it changed.
 

doberman

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
1,638
Well I dont want to murder anyone, but if I did I'd steal a car, preferably an old car, rather than take my own. And I sure wouldn't bring my cell phone. I'd be in disguise, wearing double nitrile gloves, hair secured under a wig, contact lenses. It's kind of strange how I've already thought about this...too many mystery novels.:lol:
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,961
All of the "not doing anything wrong" people -

Given that there was just a thread recently about a member here who have a stalker - do you feel just as comfortable about the data knowing how easily employees can get it and how easily data breaches can happen? I certainly don't. If the company has the data, pretty much anyone who is motivated to get it can get it, and I don't trust "pretty much anyone who is motivated to get it" with all the data about my life.
It’s actually very difficult and involved for law enforcement to get access to phone records, credit card usuage etc. Privacy regulations on release of personal information is very restricted. As it should be.
Of course anyone “hell bent” on getting access to your data will be hard to stop but they’ll need to do it illegally and usually have to involve others to break the law for them.
It’s like home security. Anyone determined enough to break into your house will find a way given enough time and equipment BUT the existence of home security stops the other 99.9% of other robbers. You don’t not leave your house because there’s a .01% of robbers out there who can break in while you’re away.
With any nefarious activity, if the perpetrator is extremely determined they usually find a way to circumvent any obstacle in their path.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
2,874
This scares me, which is why I'm not going to buy a fancy car with all the fixings. One of my biggest gripes with millennials (and it's why I don't count myself among them) is that they too easily exchange their privacy for convenience.
 

lyra

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
4,784
Actually, we've lived our lives with a stalker for probably 30 years. I keep hoping he'll die soon. Sorry, but not sorry. He was senile to begin with--it actually runs in his family. But I still don't care. Security is a different issue than the type of spying my car might be doing. Might. I don't know if it sends any info anywhere. It sits in the garage 90% of the time. I'm also fine with CCTV on every corner. It would help to protect me. Maybe it's different because of where I live, and how safe it is here. I mean my city, and neighbourhood.
 

StephanieLynn

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 2, 2016
Messages
5,334
@lyra, 30 years with a stalker is terrifying ugh! I also get sorry not sorry, we have a neighbor two doors down who likes to stare (at me, the husband, the kids) and I will be happy when he is gone for good if you catch my drift.

He will stand at the bottom of his driveway to stare at my son playing in our front window. Freaks!
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,045
I strongly support using technology to stop crime, be it murder or speeding.
I'm sick of people driving unsafely.
90.27% of drivers speed.
I'd be in heaven if every driver got a speeding ticket in the mail every time they exceeded the speed limit.
Maybe they'd learn that 40 MPH is a maximum, not a minimum.

Next, tailgating.
Put sensors and cameras in both bumpers of every car.
People who tailgate (again 90.27% of all drivers) will get a ticket in the mail.

Next, all cars should have jamming devices so cellphones (even those of passengers) don't work when the car is moving, unless the call is to 911.

I cherish my privacy for nearly everything, but I will gladly give it up to make driving safer for all.
People don't have the right to break the law. :angryfire:
Don't like a law? Work to get it changed.
I agree re: tailgating and mobile phone use - both of which increase accident risk.

Speeding, though, is not really a major issue, and attempts to focus solely on it (because it is very easy to monitor, prosecute and, soon, regulate via satellite/GPS enforced vehicle limiters) assume 'fixing' it will be a panacea for all ills, but that approach is misguided and ignores the much greater numbers of other accident causation factors.


UK research shows speeding (travelling in excess of the posted limit) is a factor in only 5% of all recorded accidents (2018 figures in table RAS50001):

Travelling at a speed below the limit, but which is inappropriate for the conditions, is at 6%.

('Speeding' should stop being referred to as 'going higher than that number on a pole' and instead be considered in terms of 'going too fast for the conditions and surrounding environment' IMO.)


Three times as many accidents have 'careless, reckless or in a hurry' as a cause (15%).

20% of accidents are attributed to 'failed to judge other person's path or speed'.

38% of accidents are attributed to 'failed to look properly'.


Adding just those up, and including the 6% from what is effectively 'speeding within the limit', gives 79% of all accident causation factors in the table.

Focusing solely on the 5% of accidents attributed to exceeding the number on the pole would therefore seem a fool's errand...

... and may perhaps even be likely to increase the numbers of accidents caused by failing to look properly, because drivers totally bored through being forced to drive at a speed which feels too slow for the surroundings (because limits are set on a political whim rather than looking at actual driver behaviour / the 85th percentile speeds) means they will just 'switch off' from driving, much like watching a very 'slow' film.


Proper driver training, teaching and enabling drivers (and riders) to:

- Drive/ride at a speed from which they can stop on their side of the road in the distance they can see to be clear (regardless of a number on a pole);

- Take into account what they can see, what they can't see, and what they can reasonably expect to see; and

- Take into account their own and others' differing experience and emotional states at any given time,

would surely target that much larger 79% of accidents that aren't caused by going faster than a given number on a pole.



"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - Albert Einstein

“Do what is right, not what is easy nor what is popular.” - Roy T Bennett
 
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