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Yet another Southern state "reopening" even though cases are still rising

kenny

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Sad.
Darwin's gonna get em. :nono:
More of their loved ones are gonna die because of this.
Sad.

I don't get it.
What is it about the Southern States? :wall:

I mean sure, freedom is groovy.
I LOVE freedom to shop, go to the gym, and lay on a beach.
But dead people ain't so groovy, well at least not where I live.
Maybe southern folk know something I don't know? :confused:


 
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mellowyellowgirl

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Wow..... That is really soon.

I've always been a huge advocate of things opening sooner than a lot of people on this forum but even I'm balking at this.

I go to the grocery store, eat take out, eat chilled bakery cakes, don't disinfect my groceries etc so I'm pretty rogue.

We've just been told two adults can visit another family on Friday by that they'll walk it back if we misbehave.

And we are not doing too badly overall so this is like a tiny concession.

I guess they are going for survival of the fittest where a set of people will just be wiped out either by not having the sense to social distance or not being able to fight the disease.
 

missy

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Another concerning issue about some cities reopening too soon is it could affect more than just that city. People in places with tighter rules can simply go out to eat or shop in areas with less strict rules. Driving 20 minutes to an area where the restaurants or bars are open and then spreading Covid 19 potentially. So it isn't just restricted to the areas that are reopening too soon but potentially can spread infection far beyond just those areas. It's once again a problem of not just affecting those who are foolish but affecting all those who come into contact with them. Wittingly or unwittingly (because face masks and other protective measures are not foolproof or even close to being completely protective).

There is no unified plan among all the states. Some are going more cautiously (because they have much higher rates of infection) and some are easing restrictions after less than 30 days under quarantine (Texas as an example) because they don't have a lot of people infected. To some extent this makes sense. But if we look at the overall picture it is dangerous IMO. For one reason, several of the states that are reopening don't have widespread testing in place or a way to track infections.

The USA has tested over 5 million people but that is only 1.6% of our population. It isn't enough.

All the hard work that has been accomplished by states quarantining could be undone if they reopen too quickly. Why risk it? Potentially triggering another outbreak causing havoc worse than before vs just taking it more cautiously and having measures in place with which to monitor and evaluate how it progresses. Can you imagine having to shut the economy down again? Once was hard but twice will be much much worse.


Here is an update re where the states are on reopening.



And more debate on how quickly can the USA reopen. For those of you who do not have access to this article and want to read it I copied and pasted it in the quote box below.



"
U.S. Debates How Quickly It Can Reopen
Nearly 54,000 people have died from Covid-19 in the U.S., as calls for more federal aid to states continue to grow


As Georgia Begins to Reopen, Many Choose to Stay Home

As Georgia Begins to Reopen, Many Choose to Stay Home
Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp’s decision to open some nonessential businesses this week was embraced by some while drawing protests from others. WSJ’s Cameron McWhirter reports from on the ground near Atlanta as business owners weigh saving their businesses and safety concerns. Photo: Ron Harris/AP
By
Jennifer Calfas,
Talal Ansari and
Natasha Khan
Updated April 26, 2020 9:12 pm ET

Some U.S. states took tentative steps toward reopening from lockdowns spurred by the new coronavirus, as officials debated how quickly to remove restrictions amid uncertainty about when the worst of the pandemic would subside.
Salons, retailers and other businesses in several U.S. states started to reopen over the weekend, as governors began easing restrictions in some sectors in an effort to begin to repair the battered economy.
Around the world, too, officials began moves to ease restrictions. Hard-hit Italy announced a timetable for reopening beginning next month, while Spain allowed children to leave their homes after six weeks under one of the strictest lockdowns in the world.
The moves in the U.S. come as the rate of growth in infections in some parts of the country appeared to slow, according to some health and state officials. Still, the number of confirmed infections neared 1 million in the U.S., according to figures from Johns Hopkins University. Public-health officials warned social-distancing measures would likely continue through the summer and a return to normalcy could prove fitful.

Shoppers wait to enter a supermarket on Sunday in Chelsea, Mass.
PHOTO: STEVEN SENNE/ASSOCIATED PRESS
Dr. Deborah Birx, a White House health official coordinating the coronavirus response, said the government is seeing cases come down but that doesn’t mean life will return to normal. She had been asked about a comment by Vice President Mike Pence who said last week that the pandemic would largely be behind the U.S. by Memorial Day.

“Social distancing will be with us through the summer, to really ensure that we protect one another as we move through these phases,” she said on NBC.

Meanwhile, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said in an interview with Fox News he expects the economy to bounce back in July, August and September as closed businesses resume operations.
“As businesses begin to open, you’re going to see [the] demand side of the economy rebound,” Mr. Mnuchin said.
The confirmed death toll in the U.S. rose to more than 54,500 on Sunday, three months after the first case of contamination was reported in the country. Globally, more than 2.9 million people have tested positive with the infection and more than 205,700 have died. Some experts say these figures understate the extent of the pandemic.
States including Alaska, Georgia, Tennessee, Texas, and South Carolina began easing shutdown orders in recent days, prompting businesses to slowly reopen with social-distancing guidelines and other restrictions in place.

Spain on Sunday allowed children to leave their homes after six weeks under one of the strictest lockdowns in the world.
PHOTO: FERNANDO VILLAR/EPA/SHUTTERSTOCK
Some health experts have warned lifting lockdown measures too soon could weaken progress on controlling the virus’s spread.
Guidelines from the Trump administration, which outline three phases of reopening, place the onus on governors to lift measures based on data from individual states. The measures say governors should move into the first phase of the plan—reopening restaurants, places of worships, movie theaters and other venues with strict social-distancing guidelines—after the state sees a downward trend of documented coronavirus cases or positive tests during a two-week period.
Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said on CBS Sunday that Georgia’s reopening “does up the risk of infection. Georgia’s certainly not out of the woods.”
In Georgia, residents and business owners had mixed responses to Gov. Brian Kemp’s order allowing nonessential businesses to reopen as soon as this past Friday—with some anxious to return to work, and others worried it was too soon. Some businesses opened their doors over the weekend.
At Suwanee Barber Shop in Suwanee, Ga., manager Thao Ho said appointments have been booked all hours—from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m.—since they reopened Friday.
“There are no breaks,” said Ms. Ho, who said she was eager to return to work after the barber shop closed in mid-March.
Many customers have inquired about protective measures the barber shop is taking while booking an appointment, she said. Employees wear masks and other protective gear, Ms. Ho said, and clean chairs and other surfaces after each customer. Customers often wear masks, too, she said.
Two barbers haven’t returned to work yet and won’t until they feel it is safe to do so, Ms. Ho said.
Stylists and employees at Valencia Salon & Spa in Bixby, Okla., meanwhile, prepared to reopen their doors Tuesday, taking a few extra days to clean and sanitize the salon. Katie Benson, the salon’s manager and a stylist who has worked there for eight years, said they had some hesitancy, but felt the need to return to work after being closed for more than a month.

The salon will reopen with a swath of protective measures: no walk-in appointments, no one in the waiting area and it will be using a touchless thermometer to take the temperature of everyone entering the salon. The salon also recommended clients bring their own face masks. “There is no way to adhere to the 6-ft order of physical distancing,” a statement from the salon read on its Facebook page.
Meanwhile, an Anchorage, Alaska, mall prepared to reopen Monday with hand sanitizer and signage encouraging customers to wear masks and maintain social distancing. Some businesses in Colorado will be allowed to open their doors this week with social distancing and sanitization requirements in place.
Governors across the country have sought to increase testing capacity—a move health experts have said is necessary to better trace the virus’s spread and safely introduce reopening measures.

As some state leaders began to ease lockdown measures this month, others extended stay-at-home orders. Some governors in hard-hit states like New York and New Jersey have pointed to signs of the virus slowing but are still reporting a significant number of new infections and deaths.
In his daily news conference, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said 367 people died in the state on Saturday and that hospitalization rates and intubations were down. “Still 1,000 new Covid cases yesterday, to put it in focus,” he said. “That would normally be terrible news. It is only not terrible news compared to where we were.”
Mr. Cuomo also outlined Sunday a phased reopening for New York, based on guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that allow for reopenings to begin after a 14-day decline in the hospitalization rate. Mr. Cuomo, who has said the state would reopen regionally, said these phases may begin in regions less impacted by the virus upstate shortly after May 15, when the state’s stay-at-home order is set to expire.
Businesses will reopen based on regional analysis, Mr. Cuomo said, and two weeks will occur between each phase to monitor infection rates. Construction and manufacturing will be the first businesses to reopen, according to the governor’s broad guidelines, and businesses deemed “more essential” would follow suit.
“Every business leader understands that we can’t just reopen and go back to where we were and what we were doing before—we have to move forward in light of the circumstances that have developed,” Mr. Cuomo said in a statement.
Even without a decision to loosen restrictions, many New York City residents enjoyed warmer spring temperatures and abundant sunshine in Central Park over the weekend. Some abided by social-distancing guidelines and facial coverings, while others didn’t.
Authorities from Israel to Australia were also taking measures to reopen parts of daily life.
In China, where there have been no newly announced coronavirus-linked deaths for more than a week, there are signs that the country is returning to normal life. High-school seniors in Beijing are slated to resume classes Monday, while the State Post Bureau—which regulates the national postal service—said the country’s daily parcel delivery volume exceeded 200 million pieces, a “normal level” similar to before the outbreak.
China’s National Health Commission said there were no Covid-19 patients in hospitals in Wuhan, where the virus first emerged, as of Sunday.

A girl rides a scooter in Seville, Spain. Children in Spain must remain distant from other children and can‘t go to playgrounds.
PHOTO: MARCELO DEL POZO/GETTY IMAGES
British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is set to return to work on Monday after recovering from symptoms that hospitalized him for a week, the government said.
Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte said the government will phase out the lockdown on industry, services and social contacts in stages beginning May 4, but he warned that a resurgence in virus infections could force a return of restrictions.

Spain allowed children to leave their homes supervised by adults for an hour between 9 a.m. and 9 p.m. They still must remain distant from other children and can’t go to playgrounds. The government is close to completing a plan to start rolling back the full measures gradually, the prime minister said.
In Israel, where nearly 200 people have died from Covid-19, many stores and beauty salons were authorized to reopen under the condition that they followed a set of coronavirus guidelines.
Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei gave his annual address to Quran reciters on Saturday evening for Ramadan, but due to the pandemic, he didn’t visit Tehran’s Mosalla Mosque, as is customary.

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani said the country’s regions would be divided into three zones: white, yellow and red. If a region has seen no new infections or deaths for at least two weeks, it will be classified as white and allowed to lift lockdown measures, including on religious sites, he said.
Authorities in Saudi Arabia announced a partial lifting of the 24-hour curfew on Sunday even though the kingdom recorded a surge of new cases of Covid-19. Curfew is now reduced to the hours between 5 p.m. and 9 a.m., except in the city of Mecca, which accounts for about one quarter of the kingdom’s total caseload and where a full-day lockdown continues to apply.
In Australia’s Queensland state, Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said stay-at-home restrictions would ease starting May 2. Queenslanders will be able to leave their homes for some recreational activities.
“This is a test run to see what effect easing restrictions has on the containment of Covid-19,” Ms. Palaszczuk said. “The first sign of a spike we will not hesitate to clamp back.”
  1. 987,467confirmed cases in the U.S.
  2. 56,164total deaths in the U.S.


Source: Johns Hopkins Center for Systems Science and Engineering
—Richard Rubin and Sarah Cheney contributed to this article.
"
 

arkieb1

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One of the Australian statisticians/forecasters was saying the other night on an Aussie TV program, on the spread of COVID - 19, that Florida will be the next New York because it has an advanced aged population and young people there that will go to the beaches, party and basically laws that allow them to do so.....

It's fascinating to me that Aussies can see what is about to happen when some people in those places in the US (particularly the people in charge) clearly cannot....
 

mellowyellowgirl

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I feel like the trouble is that there is now no plan. Everyone wants different things.

I am also under the impression the population is too big to be monitored and reprimanded like they are doing in Australia.

Aside from a Chinese military style lockdown (which will never happen) I think they are headed for a population cull of sorts.

I cannot think of a way they can avoid this. Not with everyone disagreeing and wanting different things.
 

Alex T

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One of the Australian statisticians/forecasters was saying the other night on an Aussie TV program, on the spread of COVID - 19, that Florida will be the next New York because it has an advanced aged population and young people there that will go to the beaches, party and basically laws that allow them to do so.....

It's fascinating to me that Aussies can see what is about to happen when some people in those places in the US (particularly the people in charge) clearly cannot....
Same here in the UK. We are just in amazement of what will be allowed to unfold in the US. Our infection & death rates are starting to drop every day now, but the government has been very clear that restaurants & pubs will be the LAST thing to be reopened, possibly a year to 18 months from now.

We were told on Sunday to be prepared for 'a new normal' which works for me if it continues, as it is doing currently, to save lives.
 

Niffler75

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@Alex T Yep, also being from the UK I think we have to adapt to this 'new normal' until such time as we have a vaccine. I think we have to find a sensible half way house of keeping the economy moving as much as is reasonably possible.
Social distancing will be virtually impossible to maintain in schools. Don't know what the answer is, maybe part time attendance?
 

yennyfire

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As someone from one of these Southern states (Georgia), I can tell you that I am appalled, infuriated and embarrassed by our Governor. My family has been home since 3/13. I have gone to the grocery store every 7-10 days, as I’m also shopping for my parents, which includes my Dad, who is immune compromised from a kidney transplant. Other than the grocery store, we have been home and will continue to do so until I feel safe (when that will be is another story with all of the conflicting info out there).

I went to get groceries yesterday and was SHOCKED by how many people weren’t wearing masks (compared to the last time I went) and how many people were there with their kids (over 10 years old and fully capable of being home alone for an hour). It was as if none of this had ever happened.

It makes me so angry!! Everyone is calling healthcare workers super heroes (and they are!)....but if you believe that, why wouldn’t you do whatever you could to help these heroes??...staying home is a small sacrifice for saving lives...

Just know that all Southerners aren’t as stupid as the media makes us seem (though I do know people who went running to the nail salon the day they opened). THIS Southerner at least, is staying put for the foreseeable future!
 

chrono

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Stupidity doesn't start nor end at the southern lines. In the northern end where I am, people are removing their masks to expose their noses IN the stores! :wall:
 

kenny

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Stupidity doesn't start nor end at the southern lines. In the northern end where I am, people are removing their masks to expose their noses IN the stores! :wall:
Yup.
I see that here in So. California too. :doh:
 

elizat

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I don't think the headlines are truly accurate as to Florida.


I live in Florida. There is no timeline yet. School is cancelled the rest of the year. They are talking about a mix of virtual school and in person for fall.

Its not as though come May 1 it's back to normal. I fully expect another stay at home order until June 1, but that they will allow some surgery, etc.

And it looks like they will do different things by region and probably, if they are smart, restrict travel between them.
 

arkieb1

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Sometimes I think it is a great pity that the virus doesn't mutate to kill all the idiots in this world..... instead it is spread by idiots (most of whom survive) and it kills innocent elderly people, the sick and vulnerable, and poor people that cannot afford not to work or be exposed to it, and people like doctors, nurses and front line workers who put their lives on the line every day to treat the idiots that are still not taking it seriously.
 

1ofakind

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TN hit its peak hospitalization 24 days ago with 237 people hospitalized, 70 needing ICU. That’s for the entire state. Cases are increasing because testing is increasing but hospitalizations are very low. They never got close to overflowing hospital capacity Which was the entire point of the shut down. How long should they stay closed?
 

OoohShiny

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Same here in the UK. We are just in amazement of what will be allowed to unfold in the US. Our infection & death rates are starting to drop every day now, but the government has been very clear that restaurants & pubs will be the LAST thing to be reopened, possibly a year to 18 months from now.

We were told on Sunday to be prepared for 'a new normal' which works for me if it continues, as it is doing currently, to save lives.
@Alex T Yep, also being from the UK I think we have to adapt to this 'new normal' until such time as we have a vaccine. I think we have to find a sensible half way house of keeping the economy moving as much as is reasonably possible.
Social distancing will be virtually impossible to maintain in schools. Don't know what the answer is, maybe part time attendance?
Given the size of the leisure and service economy, restaurants and public houses are going to be decimated if they cannot open in a reasonable timeframe.

I am personally still not convinced by the claims of a 'new normal' - the Government seems to have started on the path of 'suppress the peak to allow the NHS to cope', but now we are massively under NHS capacity, they have shifted to saying 'we must continue to lockdown and then implement Big Brother tracking for everyone'.

It is a convenient way to get the population to agree to even more extensive monitoring than already goes on, and you can be pretty sure that it will never be revoked once it is in place.

What I see happening is a two-tier society, where those who can evidence immunity or that they are clear at that moment in time (through a 'green light' system on their phones, for example) will be able to access services and public spaces, but those who can't or won't submit to such things will be pushed out like social pariahs.

There are big privacy concerns and I do not believe the cause justifies the means.

Estimates I have seen are for an Infection Fatality Rate of about 0.1-0.36%, so not that markedly different from influenza, so I don't believe that it justifies such an intrusion into our private lives.

It seems many people disagree with me, though, and many are far too keenly banging on about 'we want military on the streets!', 'report those criminals going out twice a day!!' etc.

I'm not sure what happened to the rights and freedom we fought for 80-odd years ago, people seem to want to sign up to a China-style authoritarian dictatorship if it means others suffer as they feel they are suffering while getting paid to sit at home :rolleyes:
 

arkieb1

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TN hit its peak hospitalization 24 days ago with 237 people hospitalized, 70 needing ICU. That’s for the entire state. Cases are increasing because testing is increasing but hospitalizations are very low. They never got close to overflowing hospital capacity Which was the entire point of the shut down. How long should they stay closed?
I think it honestly should depend upon the area, how bad it is, and how well they are or are not coping with it. As long as ICUs and hospitals don't get to the point where they are overwhelmed then it is O.K to ease and then if needed tighten restrictions. I think it's a fine balancing act between managing the resources each state has, saving as many people as possible AND managing the local economy in each place.

@OoohShiny - that is incorrect the death rates will be far worse than seasonal flu rates. The US has already had almost as many deaths in two months from COVID - 19 than you had the whole year during a particularly bad flu season in 2018.

New York - 4,749 deaths (2018 flu) versus 23,000+deaths (so far COVID-19 2020).

If you have states with a young population and low infection rates then yes some things could be reopened in those states but in others the virus will simply spread and continue to kill people....
 
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PreRaphaelite

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I live in Florida and have been staying home. I think the situation here is closely linked with the unemployment benefits crawl we have - most people are still waiting for their benefits to show up, so they are getting rowdier each day because the state hasn't handed out money. There are theories about the slow dribble of benefits being a deliberate decision, to cover up mismanagement of the funds. I'm not much of a conspiracy enthusiast, but it doesn't seem too implausible that the federal money Florida got is being delayed in order to cover up some malfeasance that the public just doesn't know about yet. Time will tell.

In the interim, people are getting angrier. The state seems to have prioritized money over health, and the more vocal types are swelling up to preach that everyone should go back to work. It beggars incredulity. It's no surprise to residents that Florida's government doesn't care. And it's not hard to see the point of view of the thirty-year veteran mechanic, or the grocery store cashier, or the single mom waitressing days and doing online college at night, all of whom struggle to afford food for their families, and are unsure if they can meet the rent bill next month, watching some slick well-fed pseudo-executive politician type offering non-answers to softball questions from the media. They shake their heads and cross their arms and call bullsh*t on the whole thing. The last thing they need is a wannabe-father figure in a suit telling them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

I had to venture out yesterday to get more priority mail boxes for next week. (I'm one of those unfortunates who are feeling the financial pinch, after my industry totally collapsed.) The first post office I went to was crammed full of people. I didn't even go in - it was so scary, because no one else was wearing a mask and they all stood in line, mere inches apart. And there was me, happily looking like an idiot, with swimming goggles on, two masks, a scarf over my head, and running like Sonic the Hedgehog away from them. The second post office was empty. A relief.

But then, as I drove home, with my windows up, praying that my car's cabin air filter was intact, I marveled at the thumping bass of hip hop surging through open car windows adjacent to me at the stop lights. No one else was wearing a mask. Not one. In a 25-minute drive. No one.

Darwinism isn't much of a stretch, I'm afraid.
 

Alex T

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Given the size of the leisure and service economy, restaurants and public houses are going to be decimated if they cannot open in a reasonable timeframe.

I am personally still not convinced by the claims of a 'new normal' - the Government seems to have started on the path of 'suppress the peak to allow the NHS to cope', but now we are massively under NHS capacity, they have shifted to saying 'we must continue to lockdown and then implement Big Brother tracking for everyone'.

It is a convenient way to get the population to agree to even more extensive monitoring than already goes on, and you can be pretty sure that it will never be revoked once it is in place.

What I see happening is a two-tier society, where those who can evidence immunity or that they are clear at that moment in time (through a 'green light' system on their phones, for example) will be able to access services and public spaces, but those who can't or won't submit to such things will be pushed out like social pariahs.

There are big privacy concerns and I do not believe the cause justifies the means.

Estimates I have seen are for an Infection Fatality Rate of about 0.1-0.36%, so not that markedly different from influenza, so I don't believe that it justifies such an intrusion into our private lives.

It seems many people disagree with me, though, and many are far too keenly banging on about 'we want military on the streets!', 'report those criminals going out twice a day!!' etc.

I'm not sure what happened to the rights and freedom we fought for 80-odd years ago, people seem to want to sign up to a China-style authoritarian dictatorship if it means others suffer as they feel they are suffering while getting paid to sit at home :rolleyes:
I am sorry you feel this way about things. I am not getting this vibe at all from our government & it hasn't even crossed my mind that proposed monitoring will be excessive & certainly no need for military being on the streets! Maybe I am naive about these things because I live in a quiet place where people are towing the line & very much eager to crack on with what is being asked of them. I am happy to continue social distancing & queueing to take my turn in the supermarket- it's not proving a problem to my lifestyle at all.

@Niffler75 I work at a primary school & the vibe I am getting is that classes will be in possibly on a rota basis, with each class taking up 2 classrooms & teachers to enable social distancing. It might mean each class doing half day sessions twice a week etc but I'm sure the powers that be will figure things out.

I will just continue to not use my brain space stressing about the things that are beyond my control.
 

dk168

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My part of the country which is a medium size town about 2h by car from London, appears to be busier on the roads and shops in the past week, and I have no doubt the bigger towns and cities would be the same if not worse!

More and more shops are opening up again, and pics in crowded supermarkets without social distancing could be seen in social media and newspaper articles.

Personally, I believe it is still too soon to be complacent about social distancing, and am going out as infrequently as I can since the lockdown over a month ago!

DK :rolleyes:
 

kipari

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I am sorry you feel this way about things. I am not getting this vibe at all from our government & it hasn't even crossed my mind that proposed monitoring will be excessive & certainly no need for military being on the streets! Maybe I am naive about these things because I live in a quiet place where people are towing the line & very much eager to crack on with what is being asked of them. I am happy to continue social distancing & queueing to take my turn in the supermarket- it's not proving a problem to my lifestyle at all.

@Niffler75 I work at a primary school & the vibe I am getting is that classes will be in possibly on a rota basis, with each class taking up 2 classrooms & teachers to enable social distancing. It might mean each class doing half day sessions twice a week etc but I'm sure the powers that be will figure things out.

I will just continue to not use my brain space stressing about the things that are beyond my control.
We're currently discussing how to open the schools back up... It seems to be the consensus that it'll be up ti the parents whether or not we'll actually have our children attend classes in-person.

They make us hadn't in our questions and at least try to make it look like the superintendent is listening to the parents and taking all possible questions into account.
 

elizat

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@PreRaphaelite we live in neighboring counties. Its different here. We went to Lowe's yesterday because we needed caulk and didn't have it. About 75 percent wore masks and gloves. Some people had eye coverings as well, which I wasn't sure why in addition to a mask and gloves.

It is probably neighborhood by neighborhood.
 

cmd2014

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We are having similar differences in how our provincial governments are approaching reopening. Quebec seems to be flinging open the doors; Ontario and BC are being more cautious, we are watching how other provinces do before we decide as we were a few weeks behind everyone else in terms of the curve.

But our public health data is showing a fatality rate much higher than influenza. And in younger/much less vulnerable people than we typically lose to the flu. Most stats that I have seen suggests a 6% mortality rate worldwide and a 4-5% mortality rate in the US, with some states being as high as 6%. The UK's death rate is estimated at 9%. Germany and South Korea are lower (around 1-2%), while only Iceland with the largest tracking and testing system in the world is reporting a mortality rate of 0.5%. So even in best case scenario it's been significantly worse than the normal flu that runs about 0.1 - 0.3% mortality rates. The best that our public health officials can determine is that there is likely a dose dependent response (higher viral load exposure = higher mortality rate) as health care workers around the world have been disproportionately hit, as have places where cases have been more concentrated. We also have a vaccine for the flu, which we are nowhere close to having yet for this. We have lost more people in a month worldwide to Covid-19 (maybe even a week) than the whole year's worth of influenza deaths.

Plus, we are starting to see that there are likely to be long term consequences in some people. Neurological deficits are starting to be reported in those who required ventilation, beyond the effect that would be expected from ventilation alone. And apparently childhood illness rates are also up - and public health officials are starting to wonder if this is also an effect of viral exposure to Covid-19. I am worried. We are being told that we may be opening up to see patients again and I'm not convinced this is entirely wise.

I am horrified at the cavalier attitude to human life (including their own and those of their children) being shown by the people on the beaches that we are seeing. I am also horrified at how little these people think of the immense sacrifices that have been made by health care workers that they would risk putting themselves and everyone else at risk. But I have the same thoughts in the grocery store. I am careful to be masked, to use hand sanitizer, to only touch what I am going to take, to follow the arrows directing you to only go one way through the whole store (so that no-one is at risk of encountering anyone else in an aisle) and to respect social distance...only to be breathed on, leaned over, crowded, passed in aisles (often by people either charging up behind me or coming the wrong way), and at some points even touched by idiots with no mask and absolutely no common sense who seem to want to touch everything and put it back. Businesses can do everything possible in the world to be safe, but they can't be idiot-proofed apparently. The last time I was out I thought to myself that humanity is doomed if we let people decide for themselves what to do (because there are many out there who just can't be expected the do the right thing apparently).
 

OreoRosies86

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
3,206
There are two camps I can see (locally).

I live in one of the top 3 worst places to be in the country right now concerning covid.

Camp 1: We need to reopen, the government is going to control all you sheeple who want to sit at home and get unemployment.

Camp 2: We shouldn’t reopen until there is a vaccine and that could take years.

Surely there is a middle ground, but I’m tired of the attitude that people want to just sit around at home. I don’t. I like my job and would like to go back. Overnight I went from having a normal life to being confined to my house and homeschooling for 6 hours a day. I’d like that to end. I’d also rather not suffocate to death because I’m in a high risk category to die from this virus. Unless you’re paying my bills so I can get out there and jumpstart the economy, in which case by all means have an opinion about how I’m coping!
 

JPie

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
3,497
I volunteer the idiots as tribute. Anyone who thinks the economy is more important than saving lives and that Covid-19 isn’t as bad as the flu should be bussed to the meat plants to work until those workers have recovered.
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,561
There is definitely no “one solution fits all” scenario here. I know people who live paycheck to paycheck and totally get that if they don’t work, they don’t eat (and I’ve made masks for many of them, as they also don’t have healthcare and are doing everything they can to protect themselves, short of staying home). My scenario is different. My husband is able to work from home and while we are very concerned about the state of the economy, food, shelter and healthcare are not concerns.

For me, it’s about how different people approach all of this. IMHO, it’s perfectly reasonable to say “I understand that I’m taking a risk by going to work, but I don’t have a choice and will take whatever precautions I can” and the morons posting on my FB page showing a large group of people (8-10) at a restaurant with the caption “#imnotscaredofcovid”....if you want to support the local economy, order take out! If you’re feeling isolated, schedule a Zoom call with friends/family.

The people I see blatantly flaunting the recommended social distancing guidelines are selfish a**holes. While I don’t wish harm to anyone, I sure hope it’s one of them who dies of Covid and not an elderly or immune compromised person who came into contact with them in a grocery store.
 

elizat

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
2,041
Surely there is a middle ground, but I’m tired of the attitude that people want to just sit around at home. I don’t. I like my job and would like to go back. Overnight I went from having a normal life to being confined to my house and homeschooling for 6 hours a day. I’d like that to end. I’d also rather not suffocate to death because I’m in a high risk category to die from this virus. Unless you’re paying my bills so I can get out there and jumpstart the economy, in which case by all means have an opinion about how I’m coping!
I agree and think there has to be a viable middle ground. It's not risk free, but nothing is. If it's data driven and in phases, it would seem to make sense to go that way.
 
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