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Yet Another Anxious Shopper Looking For a Cushion

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anonymous1insocal

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
27
There have been many threads on cushions of late, and I apologize in advance for starting another one. I'm a long-time reader, first time poster, and am looking for some help.

Here's what I, like many it seems, am looking for: A cushion stone which has a "chunkier" or broader appearance (as opposed to the "crushed ice" / pinfire cushions which typically are cushion "modified" brilliants). Yes, I know about GOG, and I like their AVC but they're a bit spendy for me. While the difference is obvious in close-up pictures, I'm not sure the cost/size sacrifice vs a non-branded cushion is worth it given my budget. I also know about the folks at ERD and their cushion knowledge, but I emailed them through their site and they didn't respond. Nothing against them - everyone gets busy and I'm sure they're fine to work with.

Bottom line is I am looking for something well cut with great light performance and with broader or chunkier facets -- not the "crushed ice" / pinfire look, but also not necessarily a vintage cut -- and am asking for you folks to show me some potential candidates. Here's what my ideals are... I think they're realistic given what I've seen:

Cut: Cushion Brilliant (prob. not modified). I understand the 8-main pavilion brilliant cut generally gives the broader facet/chunkier look but also that there are no hard and fast rules. Well cut cushion brilliants with 4 main cut pavilions sometimes, though less often, have the chunkier look.

Color: H-I color, prefer H or higher

Clarity: Si1 and higher (point being it must be eye clean)

Carat: ~2.0

L/W Ratio: Slightly rectangular (not square, not very rectangular). Probably in the realm of a 1.08-1.12

Table: 54-62 % (flexible)

Depth: 59-64% (flexible, but light performance is important)

Certification: GIA or AGS.

Flour: Preferably none given the color range.

Budget: $11-12,000 for the stone. I'm working with a local jeweler for the setting (which will be a Harry Winston inspired micro-pave band with micro-pave halo, size 6.5).

What say ye oh gods of the bling? Can you find a stone for me?
 
At first blush, I think that your specifications are a bit tight for your budget, you may want to consider dropping your color or size specs- one of these will need to give in order to meet your price point. If color is really important to you (and based on your parameters it looks like it is) you may want to consider dropping to a 1.5 ct.

You also may consider conducting a search on the homepage and entering your parameters to view other pricescope vendors and to give you a ballpark of what might be available to you. My FF is working with Mark at ERD, and while I am kept out of the specifics, he has mentioned that he has been wonderful to work with... We are in the market for a 2.5-2.7 ct Cushion Brilliant, and I recently had to change my ratio specifications, because they were to tight. Try emailing Mark directly, sometimes emailing through his website is an issue, and goes to his spam folder.

Best of luck!
 
For ERD, I really think you gotta call to make the first contact. They must get a million emails through their online form. Also, today is a holiday, so I wouldn't expect a response in any case.

Ditto what TruLuv said about your price + color specs. If you use the PS search tool, with G-I color, VS2-SI1 clarity for a cushion in-house, the best you can do right now is a 2.02 H SI1 for slightly under $13k which is well over your budget.

Sidebar: ERD's chunky cushions aren't on the search tool, dunno why. ... but ... LEON M is listing loose diamonds now?! :appl: WOW!
 
May be because I'm not searching using strict table/depth measurements, but I get at least 13 stones on the first page of the pricescope results over 2 carat, H VS2/SI1, GIA, etc. Many of these are likely modified cushion brilliants and hence the problem.

I did see that Leon M lists loose diamonds now, though their search feature is a bit buggy.
 
anonymous1insocal said:
Color: H-I color, prefer H or higher

Clarity: Si1 and higher (point being it must be eye clean)

Carat: ~2.0

L/W Ratio: Slightly rectangular (not square, not very rectangular). Probably in the realm of a 1.08-1.12

Table: 54-62 % (flexible)

Depth: 59-64% (flexible, but light performance is important)

Certification: GIA or AGS.

Flour: Preferably none given the color range.

Budget: $11-12,000 for the stone. I'm working with a local jeweler for the setting (which will be a Harry Winston inspired micro-pave band with micro-pave halo, size 6.5).

What say ye oh gods of the bling? Can you find a stone for me?
Click to expand...

anonymous1insocal- I truly believe that you will hamper your search by introducing table and depth measurements.
Many amazing stones are outside your parameters- the result is that you will handcuff any dealer looking.
 
In general, you can use the rule "reject if table % is smaller than depth %" -- but leave the rest to the dealer. Specific %s for a cushion don't mean as much as they do for a RB -- and there is a lot of variation in the look of a cushion that isn't controlled by the %s.
 
antelope1 said:
In general, you can use the rule "reject if table % is smaller than depth %" -- but leave the rest to the dealer. Specific %s for a cushion don't mean as much as they do for a RB -- and there is a lot of variation in the look of a cushion that isn't controlled by the %s.
Click to expand...

"Don't date someone who was born in September" might be well meaning advice given that is along these same lines. Someone had a bad boyfriend born in September and makes a "rule"

Ruling out tables smaller than depth is yet another method of eliminating some of the best stones. Some of the nicest cushions have tables smaller than their depth percentages.
I understand why they are repeated, and why people want guidelines but here's simply no truth to these "rules".
 
Rockdiamond said:
antelope1 said:
In general, you can use the rule "reject if table % is smaller than depth %" -- but leave the rest to the dealer. Specific %s for a cushion don't mean as much as they do for a RB -- and there is a lot of variation in the look of a cushion that isn't controlled by the %s.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


YES. I totally agree. Just posted them since those are thought very generally to be guidelines for a well-proportioned stone. I am quite flexible on them.
 
AOP, ERD, and GOG all offer generic 8 main vintage cushions that are cheaper than AVCs as they are cut retaining more weight but they don't have the same edge to edge brightness or size of flash.

You should call and ask Jon at GOG or Mark at ERD, or Perry at AOP. They share the one supplier of these in common who I beleive doesn't want their stones listed on search engines. GOG and ERD may have other suppliers unique to them as well best to speak to Mark or Jon.

Your depth and table % numbers are just too restrictive and unuseable for any style of cushion I wouldn't even mention them with these vendors.

Overall if you care about edge to edge brightness you should use a vendor who calls stones in house and provides images ASET and photograph or video and makes critical comparisons for you. This is especially true if you haven't educated your eyes by in real life viewing and are making assumptions based on magnified video or carefully chosen vendor photographs.

As you can see from this thread many vendors and consumers of fancy shapes would prefer you use your uneducated eyes and not make any brightness comparisons at all, they may even be bold enough to say all cushions are equally bright and beautiful to them.

I could give you ranges that I know are safe for the generic vintage 8 main style from the cutting house I know namely:

Table 58% or less. (Tall crown required to properly return overhead light)
Depth 63 - 70% (Proper Crown/Pavilion Angles and Depth are required once again)

But this doesn't gurantee a bright stone its only about 1/10th of the information you really need to definitively judge optics.
Later on I'll post up a simulation video for cushions (AVC versus Generic Well Cut versus Crushed Ice) which will make this very clear what I am talking about.
 
Thanks Chunky. That was helpful. I think all of the cuts (modifed, chunky, avc) etc. can look fantastic WHEN cut well for light performance.

I plan to contact the various vendors by telephone after the holiday.
 
Thanks again Chunky. Yeah, that vid definitely shows AVC or 8 main thin is my preference. To each his or her own though. Now the question, who can find me a rock ;)
 
In searching the various sites featured on these forums and elsewhere on the internet, I have yet to find hardly any cushion brilliants with the "8 main" cut. Certainly none in the size I'm looking for. What gives?
 
Someone told me <throws salt liberally> that for a given rough, if they can cut it into an 8-main cushion, they can also cut it into a RB, which has a higher street value. Therefore, the 8-main (though beautiful) is getting harder to find.

Can anyone confirm?
 
antelope1 said:
Someone told me <throws salt liberally> that for a given rough, if they can cut it into an 8-main cushion, they can also cut it into a RB, which has a higher street value. Therefore, the 8-main (though beautiful) is getting harder to find.

Can anyone confirm?
Click to expand...

I was told the exact same thing by Mark at ERD a year ago. That is a serious oversimplification. The ease of sale of rounds to China and India may have an impact on the choice of round versus fancy selection but that doesn't eliminate the production of fancy shapes.

There isn't the same stockpile of these stones (from one supplier who no longer cuts them) as before but that is far from where they aren't being produced. There are suppliers who continue to manufacture 8 main modern cushions, I still see stones with report dates from 2010 popping up, however since I think the average consumer has no idea of their existance and they aren't a marketed brand the demand and thus supply is somewhat limited.

The 8 main thin has much different proportions from a round, this would make for a steep deep round. The ring of leakage at the edge of the table may be tolerable for a cushion but would be poor in a round. These cushions retain much more weight for the same rough than if cut to an ideal round.

By extending the same argument the square cushion hearts and arrows( which does have proportions like an h&A tolk round except for the girdle outline) would be in jeopardy. However, as long as their is demand for squareish fancy shapes the brand continues to manufacture and market successfully.
 
I love this cushion! It is a little smaller in weight than what you want, but gorgeous! My #1 vote!
http://www.micropave.com/index.php/diamonds/104046524004.html

Here is another one that comes close to all your specs. The stone alone sells for $13,500, but most definitely could be negotiated down.
https://www.artdecodiamonds.com/products.php?id=2279&l=0&u=2147483647&sortway=desc

And one from Blue Nile - they can get you pictures...
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?filter_id=0&track=head#diamonds_pid=LD01762100

Good luck with your search!
 
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