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Yellow Sapphire's and their value - conflicting minds??

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STOJA001

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Hi.

I've been searching the internet for any information available.
As I can see, there's very conflicting minds about Yellow Sapphire's.
Some people say their worth much less than a Blue Sapphire's but many disagree, I've even seen companies got different opinions about this one.

I got a 2.45 carat Canary Yellow Sapphire.
It has a Lab Report from Emil Gem Laboratory (Japan), but I will get an AGL Report for it this November.

On the Emil Report it's stated;
Weight; 2.455 carat
Measurements; 7.18 x 8.35 x 5.17
Shape/Cut; Drop/Mixed
Transparancy; Transparent
Colour(s); Yellow
Comments: Natural sapphires are generally enhanced by heating. No positive microscopic evidence was observed concerning either the natural or enhanced condition of this stone.

I also got this Sapphire's checked at a Local Jewelry Store - and they told me it's a VVS1 but could even be a IF/FL.
The Origin was Natural, not synthetic - but they couldn't tell me more about it because Gemstones is not familiar in my Country at all!

The picture is taken of the actual Sapphire - pictured by EMIL, and yes, the color is that deep/vivid IRL as well.
I've been looking at different gemstone-site's online, but cant find anyone with matching color that has NOT been Heated/Enhanced!

Any opinions about value???

Please let me know, thanks!

KGrHqNlkE5YNr1S-bBOdHPWj3_35.JPG
 

Pandora II

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A fine yellow is worth more than a poor blue, a fine blue is worth more than a fine yellow.

In the UK, it's hard to fine nice yellow sapphires and many people don't stock them at all. It's not a colour that looks that nice on English skin and so demand is not so high.

With coloured stones, the important thing is eye-clean. Unlike diamonds where clarity is judged using a x10 loupe, coloured stones are judged with the naked eye from a distance of 6".Personally, I don't like coloured stones that are loupe clean - they don't have ID marks (my tsavorite is loupe-clean and the only way I can be sure it is mine is with electronic calipers) and my 'synthetic' suspicions are hugely raised.

Can I ask who tested it and how they know it's natural? It's not easy picking out a synthetic yellow sapphire as most of the give-aways aren't present.

The other thing to be aware of is Beryllium diffusion - a stone with no inclusions would again worry me here as the heat used to diffuse the Be into the lattice structure is so high that it is just below the melting-point of sapphire and so destroys any original internal inclusions.
 

STOJA001

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Pandora|1318851697|3041900 said:
A fine yellow is worth more than a poor blue, a fine blue is worth more than a fine yellow.

In the UK, it's hard to fine nice yellow sapphires and many people don't stock them at all. It's not a colour that looks that nice on English skin and so demand is not so high.

With coloured stones, the important thing is eye-clean. Unlike diamonds where clarity is judged using a x10 loupe, coloured stones are judged with the naked eye from a distance of 6".Personally, I don't like coloured stones that are loupe clean - they don't have ID marks (my tsavorite is loupe-clean and the only way I can be sure it is mine is with electronic calipers) and my 'synthetic' suspicions are hugely raised.

Can I ask who tested it and how they know it's natural? It's not easy picking out a synthetic yellow sapphire as most of the give-aways aren't present.

The other thing to be aware of is Beryllium diffusion - a stone with no inclusions would again worry me here as the heat used to diffuse the Be into the lattice structure is so high that it is just below the melting-point of sapphire and so destroys any original internal inclusions.
Thanks for your reply on this one :)

It has a EMIL Laboratory Gem Report (Japan) stating;
Weight; 2.455 carat
Measurements; 7.18 x 8.35 x 5.17 mm
Shape/Cut; Drop/Mixed
Transparancy; Transparent
Colour(s); Yellow
Comments: Natural sapphires are generally enhanced by heating. No positive microscopic evidence was observed concerning either the natural or enhanced condition of this stone.

The Jewelry Store had it for 24 hours and just told me it was a VVS1 and could even be a IF/FL.
But they couldn't tell me about treatments tho', but they could see it was natural because of some color pattern - it has small Orange color "inclusions/zoning" some places.

The camera cant catch the color for some reason - it's not that color IRL;
Please see picture NR 4 - not my Sapphire but exactly same color - even same Orange spots! :o

Picture 11.jpg

Picture 12.jpg

Picture 13.jpg

yellow-sapphire_1_large.jpg
 

Pandora II

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The difference in price between a VVS and an IF in coloured stones will depend on what Type of stone they are - Type I, II or III.

In sapphires, I wouldn't expect to see much of any difference in price for VVS versus IF.
 

STOJA001

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Pandora|1318863156|3041980 said:
The difference in price between a VVS and an IF in coloured stones will depend on what Type of stone they are - Type I, II or III.

In sapphires, I wouldn't expect to see much of any difference in price for VVS versus IF.
Okay.. :)
But do you got any idea about retail value?
 

colorluvr

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STOJA001|1318863310|3041983 said:
Pandora|1318863156|3041980 said:
The difference in price between a VVS and an IF in coloured stones will depend on what Type of stone they are - Type I, II or III.

In sapphires, I wouldn't expect to see much of any difference in price for VVS versus IF.
Okay.. :)
But do you got any idea about retail value?
There is going to be quite a differnce in retail value depending on what the AGL lab tells you about treatments. BE heated larger yellow sapphires are going for around $100 to $150 per ct at the market in Thailand (based on what I was told) so retail will be higher than that. Traditional heat only sapphires will go for much more than that retail. You might try checking out SimplySapphires and see what their yellow sapphires are going for.
 

STOJA001

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colorluvr|1318873020|3042056 said:
STOJA001|1318863310|3041983 said:
Pandora|1318863156|3041980 said:
The difference in price between a VVS and an IF in coloured stones will depend on what Type of stone they are - Type I, II or III.

In sapphires, I wouldn't expect to see much of any difference in price for VVS versus IF.
Okay.. :)
But do you got any idea about retail value?
There is going to be quite a differnce in retail value depending on what the AGL lab tells you about treatments. BE heated larger yellow sapphires are going for around $100 to $150 per ct at the market in Thailand (based on what I was told) so retail will be higher than that. Traditional heat only sapphires will go for much more than that retail. You might try checking out SimplySapphires and see what their yellow sapphires are going for.
Thanks for your reply.

I dont know wether to trust Emil Lab or not?
They claimed it is untreated/unheated.

Thanks for the link, but I cant find anyone without treatments there wtih matching color etc :)
 

Pandora II

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I would possibly try a better-known lab.

The problem then is that I rather agree with Ed that this is a synthetic - the report states that they can't find evidence to point to either natural or synthetic... basically they don't know.

One of the markers for synthetic sapphires - if the are produced by the verneuil method is the presence of curved striae within the stone. In yellow sapphires these are not there and so you need to look for either things like bubbles or for inclusions that would give a positive indication for natural.

As synthetics have the same chemical, physical and optical properties as the natural, it really is very tricky indeed. You could end up spending considerably more on the report than the stone is worth.

Does your supplier offer any kind of guarantees? Can he track the history of the stone for you?
 

STOJA001

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Pandora|1318875466|3042094 said:
I would possibly try a better-known lab.

The problem then is that I rather agree with Ed that this is a synthetic - the report states that they can't find evidence to point to either natural or synthetic... basically they don't know.

One of the markers for synthetic sapphires - if the are produced by the verneuil method is the presence of curved striae within the stone. In yellow sapphires these are not there and so you need to look for either things like bubbles or for inclusions that would give a positive indication for natural.

As synthetics have the same chemical, physical and optical properties as the natural, it really is very tricky indeed. You could end up spending considerably more on the report than the stone is worth.

Does your supplier offer any kind of guarantees? Can he track the history of the stone for you?
No, they can not see any treatments at all - that's what's stated :)
Of course it's natural, if not it would be stated as Syntethic.

There's no bubbles - but there is some deeper yellow/orange spots here and there in it.
That's the only thing I can see with a 60x loupe, but it has only 1 tiny tiny tiny "needle" inside when seen under 60x loupe.

I will get a AGL Report for this one as well and post it here, in November I'd suppose.
The only thing the supplier could tell was that it has Thailand Origin, from Kanchanaburi - but it's natural - he claimed also.
I dont know tho.
 

Pandora II

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Comments: Natural sapphires are generally enhanced by heating. No positive microscopic evidence was observed concerning either the natural or enhanced condition of this stone.

This means that they see nothing to positively identify this as a natural sapphire, or to indicate that there may have been treatments.
 

STOJA001

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Pandora|1318877334|3042127 said:
Comments: Natural sapphires are generally enhanced by heating. No positive microscopic evidence was observed concerning either the natural or enhanced condition of this stone.

This means that they see nothing to positively identify this as a natural sapphire, or to indicate that there may have been treatments.
Maybe you are very right... Hmm..

But I would read it like this - also same when translated into my language;
No evidence of treatment - neither any positive indications of syntethic, meaning it's natural.

I might be wrong as I understand what you mean as well...
Then we'll see when it got it's AGL Report I suppose ;-)
 

Pandora II

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What happens to the stone under UV?

Could you look at room temperature and also stick the stone in the fridge for a bit and then try again... don't ask! :bigsmile:
 

STOJA001

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Pandora|1318877858|3042132 said:
What happens to the stone under UV?
Thanks for asking, I hadn't even been thinking about that..
In UV; the yellow turns neon green - the orange turns neon blue..?

I'll put the sapphire in the fridge right now
 

STOJA001

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Pandora|1318878678|3042142 said:
Blue fluorescence in sapphire generally indicates a synthetic.
Okay.
Had it in fridge until it got "frost" - it turned only kinda grayish-green under UV.
Touched it, and it was ice-cold.
 

STOJA001

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Pandora|1318879159|3042150 said:
The yellow or the orange?
Both the orange and the yellow turned grayish-green - but the orange turned just a little bit darker.
What about this?
 

Pandora II

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I'm suspicious about both. Natural yellow sapphire from Sri Lanka glows apricot under UV, not sure on other origins, will see if I can find out...

There are other tests that you can do if you can use a spectoscope - also some immersion tests but you will need to get those done by a lab or a qualified gemmologist.
 

STOJA001

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Pandora|1318880460|3042168 said:
I'm suspicious about both.

There are other tests that you can do if you can use a spectoscope - also some immersion tests but you will need to get those done by a lab or a qualified gemmologist.
Yes, I will get a Report by AGL.
Only $240.00, so it would be no problem :)
 

STOJA001

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Pandora|1318880460|3042168 said:
I'm suspicious about both. Natural yellow sapphire from Sri Lanka glows apricot under UV, not sure on other origins, will see if I can find out...

There are other tests that you can do if you can use a spectoscope - also some immersion tests but you will need to get those done by a lab or a qualified gemmologist.
This link tells Yellow Syntethic Sapphire's is inert - doesn't show fluorescence I suppose?
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/fluoresc.htm

Maybe a crazy question...
But when people uses UV to other thing, they almost always use an orange glass in front.
Would this be OK when checking Fluorescence in gemstones as well?

It has to have something to do with the mw/cm2 in the UV-lamp.
When I switched lamp to one with less mw/cm2 - the the fluorescense suddenly turns yellow, blue, green, and red at the same time! It's sparkling like a rainbow or something... :-o
 

Pandora II

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I've never used a glass in front at all...

Some yellow sapphires can be inert, but those from Ceylon are apricot in colour. Richard Hughes has some interesting articles - I'll try and find the link.

They certainly shouldn't be neon green or neon blue.
 

Ella

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