wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose...

[hippi_pixi]

correct me if i'm wrong but you wouldn't normally see a purple stone advertised as padparadscha right??

described as orange purple

http://www.fgsgems.com/fgsgems/item_detail.asp?Type=Sapphire%20-%20Padparadscha#

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

Nice colour but, yeah, padparadcha? No way.

 

[chrono]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

Any vendor can call whatever stone they like whatever they want and sell it at whatever price they choose. It is up to the buyer to make sure that they are getting what they paid for and if the buyer really wants a padparadscha, then the onus is on the buyer to make sure it falls within the lab recognized limited range of what a padparadscha is. And by lab, I am referring to the standard and labs in the LMCH.
http://www.lmhc-gemology.org/pdfs/IS4_18012010.pdf

 

[colorluvr]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

Remember the guy who no long posts on PS with "76" in his name who was constantly posting about how great his jeweler said his gems were ? Frank Schaffer (fgsgems) is his jeweler. Nuff said.......

Unfortunately he still posts on another board where he told the members on that forum that "Frank" (his jeweler) told him his stones are wonderful. I wouldn't care, except many of the members of that board are not very colored stone knowledgeable and it drives me crazy when I see the stuff he posts sometimes .....

 

[LD]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

Remember the guy who no long posts on PS with "76" in his name who was constantly posting about how great his jeweler said his gems were ? Frank Schaffer (fgsgems) is his jeweler. Nuff said.......

Unfortunately he still posts on another board where he told the members on that forum that "Frank" (his jeweler) told him his stones are wonderful. I wouldn't care, except many of the members of that board are not very colored stone knowledgeable and it drives me crazy when I see the stuff he posts sometimes .....

That's given me the biggest laugh ever! We all said that his "appraiser" was rubbish and didn't know his bum from his elbow but he wouldn't listen!

I've never seen such a large collection of poor gems belonging to one poor deluded person. Oh well, clearly they made him and "his followers" happy.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

Any vendor can call whatever stone they like whatever they want and sell it at whatever price they choose. It is up to the buyer to make sure that they are getting what they paid for and if the buyer really wants a padparadscha, then the onus is on the buyer to make sure it falls within the lab recognized limited range of what a padparadscha is. And by lab, I am referring to the standard and labs in the LMCH.
http://www.lmhc-gemology.org/pdfs/IS4_18012010.pdf

No, they can't. The Federal Trade Commission has very clear guidelines on what is and isn't acceptable: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/jewel-gd.shtm

It says: "It is unfair or deceptive to misrepresent the type, kind, grade, quality, quantity, metallic content, size, weight, cut, color, character, treatment, substance, durability, serviceability, origin, price, value, preparation, production, manufacture, distribution, or any other material aspect of an industry product." So, yes, calling a purple sapphire padparadscha is misrepresenting the kind of sapphire. Borderline cases can be argued, of course (although many sellers won't call it a pad without a report classifying it as such) but this one is about as far from the border as Kansas City.

Of course, it would be naive of any of us to take things on the seller's word and I would never say "don't worry, the FTC protects the buyer" However, the fact that the seller won't be punished for it doesn't mean that he can. If anyone wants to, they can report complaints to the FTC (https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/). If enough people complain, perhaps they will do something, although I imagine it would work more effectively against industry giants than the small independent vendors.

 

[JewelFreak]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

So, yes, calling a purple sapphire padparadscha is misrepresenting the kind of sapphire. Borderline cases can be argued, of course (although many sellers won't call it a pad without a report classifying it as such) but this one is about as far from the border as Kansas City.

Startling "padparascha." My eyes bugged when I saw the pic. That's the longest reach I ever heard of. Not to mention the window, no, door.
A stitch to know the jeweler of the 76 guy -- I guess he buys some of his top-notch ones from them. There's one born every minute.

--- Laurie

 

[innerkitten]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

Yes very loose.

 

[Richard M.]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

No, they can't. The Federal Trade Commission has very clear guidelines on what is and isn't acceptable: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/jewel-gd.shtm

The FTC has jurisdiction over U.S. sales only. As far as I know there's no similar organization operating internationally.

And the FTC's bark is much worse than its bite. It has virtually no funds or infrastructure to enforce its rules except in instances of large firms engaging in gross violations. IMO jewelry/gem buyers should educate themselves to the same extent as potential car and home buyers. Forums like this help a lot.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

 

[sphenequeen]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

Remember the guy who no long posts on PS with "76" in his name who was constantly posting about how great his jeweler said his gems were ? Frank Schaffer (fgsgems) is his jeweler. Nuff said.......

Unfortunately he still posts on another board where he told the members on that forum that "Frank" (his jeweler) told him his stones are wonderful. I wouldn't care, except many of the members of that board are not very colored stone knowledgeable and it drives me crazy when I see the stuff he posts sometimes .....

Didn't GregS just buy a beautiful tiny paraiba from Frank?

 

[cm366]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

I never got the feeling that Steve was listening too closely to what anyone told him... I could see Frank being polite and his politeness being taken for wild approbation. I wouldn't call that a Pad, though!

 

[LD]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

Unfortunately in the UK there is no organisation that can regulate the selling of gemstones. The only course of action we have is to go to court if something is misrepresented. If it's a TV/Radio company then there is a course of action but similarly they have no "teeth"

 

[ChristineRose]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

It looks like a lotus flower!

Someone posted a long article about the definition of padparascha and included a small survey along with some organization's "official" definitions. Maybe the OP can link it here. Needless to say, it was all over the place. But my recollection is that the earliest uses of the term would have included this stone because of it's lotus-like properties.

It is amazing how many people think they know enough about gems to outsmart the cheesiest of dealers. I suppose no matter what your specialty you are going to run into "experts" who insist there's a conspiracy to suppress the truth and that explains why everyone around them is telling them they are wrong.

 

[hippi_pixi]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

i didn't so much post this to identify a dodgy dealer so much as to just have a laugh. i certainly did when i saw the pic and just had to share it.

As far as i'm aware the criteria to be certfied as a padparadscha by any reputable lab is quite strict and doesn't include shades of purple but its interesting to hear christinerose that this may have fit under the original intention of the word padparadscha!

 

[chrono]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

This one, I think. And regardless of whose definition of what a padparadscha is, none have any hint of purple.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/excellent-article-on-padparadscha.186029/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/excellent-article-on-padparadscha.186029/[/URL]

 

[LD]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

Like Chrono I have never seen a definition where purple is included for Padparadscha designation. It should be orange/pink - nothing else! The only definition that I believe that is currently in use is also the one that Chrono has linked to above.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

I have to wonder if it wasn't just a mistake on the vendor's part...

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

No, they can't. The Federal Trade Commission has very clear guidelines on what is and isn't acceptable: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/jewel-gd.shtm

The FTC has jurisdiction over U.S. sales only. As far as I know there's no similar organization operating internationally.

And the FTC's bark is much worse than its bite. It has virtually no funds or infrastructure to enforce its rules except in instances of large firms engaging in gross violations. IMO jewelry/gem buyers should educate themselves to the same extent as potential car and home buyers. Forums like this help a lot.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

True - I assumed the seller was in the US. Some countries have better regulations than others.

I was arguing more on conceptual grounds (aka, no, vendors can't just say anything) than actually expecting the FTC to do anything about it. But I still think we should all hold the trade up to higher standards.

 

[chrono]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

Theoretically the entire world will be a safe and peaceful place too but alas, human nature isn't always a nice thing underneath it all. Because there is little chance of repercussion, vendors can call a stone whatever they want although most do not make it this obvious.

 

[Richard M.]

Re: wow the definition of padparadscha is getting very loose

I was arguing more on conceptual grounds (aka, no, vendors can't just say anything) than actually expecting the FTC to do anything about it. But I still think we should all hold the trade up to higher standards.

There's no arguing with that, and I wasn't trying to be difficult with you. But I notice that a substantial number of stones acquired by PS'ers come from parts of the world where FTC regulations don't apply. Actually vendors can and do "say anything," especially on EBay, and get away with it for the most part.

Other cultural traditions come into play as well. If I have a pink sapphire graded by an Indian or Sri Lankan gem lab it will usually be reported as a "ruby." A pad-color corundum (if we could agree on what color that is) from Tanzania probably wouldn't be graded as a pad in Sri Lanka because of the cultural belief that the only "true" pads come from Sri Lanka (a simplification).

While a lot of progress has been made to harmonize laboratory grading standards internationally, local customs and tastes often intervene. And frankly, there's simply a lot of innocent but emphatic ignorance expressed on the part of some vendors. They mean well but they don't have a lot of gem knowledge. That's why the "caveat emptor" approach is still generally wise on the part of consumers.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)