Would You Trust and/or Buy From a Vendor Who...

[RockAndRoll2006]

Quotes you on several xxx diamonds, stating they are wonderful stones that indeed fit my budget; however, when I run them through HCA I get: 5.5, 4.8, 5.2, 3.2, 4.5 and then one that's below 2...

Seems shady and cant decide if I should ever trust this guy (and look at other options he may have) or write him off. Sadly, my friends have purchased stones from him (without doing nearly as much research as I am) and I think I'm figuring out why they got such great prices.

 

[msop04]

Quotes you on several xxx diamonds, stating they are wonderful stones that indeed fit my budget; however, when I run them through HCA I get: 5.5, 4.8, 5.2, 3.2, 4.5 and then one that's below 2...

Seems shady and cant decide if I should ever trust this guy (and look at other options he may have) or write him off. Sadly, my friends have purchased stones from him (without doing nearly as much research as I am) and I think I'm figuring out why they got such great prices.

The vendor may not be trying to pull one over on you... he probably just doesn't know about HCA, or even if he does, he may not be using it at all. He may be simply using his eyes and happen to like the stones and think they look great (and trying to get a sale). Even if a stone scores lower on the HCA, the XXX grade will command a higher price than lower grades, so it's not like your friends are getting amazing deals simply because their stones scored >2 (assuming they bought XXX). Also, have you seen the diamonds he has? There may be some really nice ones that have been dinged by the HCA for various reasons. HCA is very helpful if you can't see the stone or you are needing some means to "weed out" some stones, but it isn't the "be all, end all" in diamond selection. Not meaning to "defend" the vendor by any means, I promise...

 

[proto]

HCA is negative, not positive selection tool

most vendors dont use HCA or know what it is

Never ascribe to malice what can much easier be explained through incompetetence/ignorance.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Quotes you on several xxx diamonds, stating they are wonderful stones that indeed fit my budget; however, when I run them through HCA I get: 5.5, 4.8, 5.2, 3.2, 4.5 and then one that's below 2...

Seems shady and cant decide if I should ever trust this guy (and look at other options he may have) or write him off. Sadly, my friends have purchased stones from him (without doing nearly as much research as I am) and I think I'm figuring out why they got such great prices.

Maybe a honest guy, just don't know much about diamonds...

 

[msop04]

HCA is negative, not positive selection tool

most vendors dont use HCA or know what it is

Never ascribe to malice what can much easier be explained through incompetetence/ignorance.

Nice quote, proto!!

 

[msop04]

Here are some helpful threads on HCA scores, and many of the experts have given great explanations... hope this helps!!

Also, note that AGS 0's can score >2 -- and still exhibit superior light performance. A score of >2 does NOT mean the stone's a dud by any stretch of the imagination... what you like in a stone could make you like a 3 or 4 -- even more than a stone scoring <2 --each person may have a different idea on what they like to see, KWIM?

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...a-factor-grades-in-assessing-diamonds.150674/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hca-2-0-but-still-performs.192820/

There are tons of threads, but these two just came to mind...

 

[msop04]

...aaaaand yet the most recent HCA thread:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/holloway-cut-advisor-outdated.203049/

 

[thecat]

Look at his wife's diamonds. If they perform like those he's trying to sell you, he's just ignorant about good performing diamonds.

 

[msop04]

Look at his wife's diamonds. If they perform like those he's trying to sell you, he's just ignorant about good performing diamonds.

OP didn't mention having seen the diamonds... there could be some great stones in the bunch. Indeed, he may be ignorant of the HCA, but he may also have an expert eye for gorgeous stones without having to use it. We shouldn't automatically bash them based solely on HCA scores. The OP really needs to be able to see them IRL.

 

[RockAndRoll2006]

Thanks all for the replies so far. Ha well I just don't trust my own eye really, so thats partly why I can appreciate the ratings of the likes of HCA (and any other sources of knowledge that I can find).

I don't doubt that the gentlemen was knowledgeable and likely aware of how to spot a great performing diamond. I did have an opportunity to look at about 3-4 of his diamonds and nothing jumped out at me about their performance been terrible by any means. But that being said, I don't think I'm fully trained to pick up on subtle nuances (hence my hope to getting assistance from HCA, GIA reports, and idealscope (along with the experts here on PS) when the time comes.

 

[msop04]

Thanks all for the replies so far. Ha well I just don't trust my own eye really, so thats partly why I can appreciate the ratings of the likes of HCA (and any other sources of knowledge that I can find).

I don't doubt that the gentlemen was knowledgeable and likely aware of how to spot a great performing diamond. I did have an opportunity to look at about 3-4 of his diamonds and nothing jumped out at me about their performance been terrible by any means. But that being said, I don't think I'm fully trained to pick up on subtle nuances (hence my hope to getting assistance from HCA, GIA reports, and idealscope (along with the experts here on PS) when the time comes.

R&R, is it necessary that you use this particular vendor, or would you be open to another (PS-trusted) vendor?? I understand about not trusting your own eyes -- I feel the same way!! If you would consider using another vendor, a lot of the work regarding diamond performance will be done for you... which would be a great relief to me if I were shopping.

 

[RockAndRoll2006]

ha, thanks msop04 for bringing me back to reality! I absolutely do not need to use this vendor! As of now, I'm pursuing all options available to me. That includes some personal recommendations (both in and out of city I live in) as well as online options. Like most on here, I'm looking for the best diamond for me at the best price. Maybe I was just a bit shocked when I checked HCA's for his diamonds so I wanted to see if that situation was abnormal.

Tell me more about a lot of work about the diamond performance being done for me. Are you referring to those working for the PS-trusted vendors or folks here on the forum? It seems if I pursue a few different diamonds from a PS-trusted vendor, the first step would be to get the GIA report, HCA's report, and an idealscope and to gather feedback in forums.

Are there are recommendations you have for when the day comes? I've officially reached the stage where if I find "the" diamond, I'll be ready to pull the trigger. Posting and reading has really helped me learn more and allowed me to be a better educated shopper.

 

[msop04]

ha, thanks msop04 for bringing me back to reality! I absolutely do not need to use this vendor! As of now, I'm pursuing all options available to me. That includes some personal recommendations (both in and out of city I live in) as well as online options. Like most on here, I'm looking for the best diamond for me at the best price. Maybe I was just a bit shocked when I checked HCA's for his diamonds so I wanted to see if that situation was abnormal.

Tell me more about a lot of work about the diamond performance being done for me. Are you referring to those working for the PS-trusted vendors or folks here on the forum? It seems if I pursue a few different diamonds from a PS-trusted vendor, the first step would be to get the GIA report, HCA's report, and an idealscope and to gather feedback in forums.

Are there are recommendations you have for when the day comes? I've officially reached the stage where if I find "the" diamond, I'll be ready to pull the trigger. Posting and reading has really helped me learn more and allowed me to be a better educated shopper.

Most PS vendors will supply Idealscope/ASET/etc to show performance as well as photos, video, etc... but most importantly, they are well known and respected for dealing in the absolute best cuts (ACA, AGS 0, BG Signature, H&A, just to name a few). Also, PS members are wonderful about helping with diamond decisions! If you deal in AGS 0, there is no need for the HCA -- another reason I'm a big fan of AGS...

If you list your budget (you may have already, but I'm too lazy to go back into the other thread and find it -- HA!!), there are many here who will help you!! No worries anymore!!!

 

[msop04]

I forgot to mention for you to list color and clarity preference as well...

 

[RockAndRoll2006]

Haha, perfect. thanks for the help!! The specs for the diamond I'm interested in may get buried if I post here (since it's a little off topic), but I will post anyhow for your reference. My budget for the diamond and the setting is max $12,000 after all is said and done. With a $2500-3000 setting (guessing), that leaves me about $9,000 to find my diamond.

I'm looking for a 1.35 to 1.45 RB H or I, eye-clean Si1 diamond. Excellent cut is very important to me, but think I could be comfortable with a VG+ symmetry and VG+ polish. I'm okay with florescence as long as it's not "strong." Given that I'm placing it into a halo, it seems I could get away with a Si1 if imperfections are not right across the table. I posted earlier today also about how it seems for I color, there is little difference in price between Si1 and Vs2...so I'd take Vs2 into consideration too.

 

[teobdl]

I SI1's
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.37-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-308205
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.33-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-314361

H SI1's
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.31-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-240538 (my top choice)
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.31-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-297186
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.28-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-319085

H-I SI2 to consider if you are willing to go down in clarity a bit
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.53-carat-i-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-338472
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.37-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-319086

 

[TC1987]

This thread (link, below) might help you relate to whatever proportions those 3+ HCA score diamonds have. Big tables, low crown height, low crown angle, deep pavilion, almost all brilliance and no fire, etc. can go along with those parameters that fall outside the AGS 000 and GIA 3x range. Minor facets also affect the look. Read through the info at Good Old Gold and Nice Ice if you have time.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/[/URL]

 

[RockAndRoll2006]

Thx teobdl for the search! I agree with you on your top choice. A few of those had a few too many inclusions for my liking. But will keep that one in mind over this next few days!

TC1987 thanks for that link. That's very useful.

 

[msop04]

I SI1's
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.37-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-308205
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.33-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-314361

H SI1's
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.31-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-240538 (my top choice)
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.31-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-297186
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.28-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-319085

H-I SI2 to consider if you are willing to go down in clarity a bit
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.53-carat-i-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-338472
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.37-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-319086

Nice finds, teobdl!

In addition to your top choice, I liked these:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-314361
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...arat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-297186

I don't think R&R can go wrong with any of these.

 

[RockAndRoll2006]

I noticed both of you exclusively posted James Allen diamonds. Any reason for this?

For educational purposes, would you rule these ones out? If so, why?

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5103085-1.40-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=5103085&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=7389H473&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope

http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=735F6865&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope

Thanks!

 

[msop04]

I noticed both of you exclusively posted James Allen diamonds. Any reason for this?

For educational purposes, would you rule these ones out? If so, why?

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5103085-1.40-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=5103085&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=7389H473&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope

http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=735F6865&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope

Thanks!

R&R, I tend to list JA stones because I can see them as close to IRL as any other vendor's stones. The video is a huge plus in my book, because a still photo can hide many inclusions (especially from the side views). The video also helps show side color as compared to face up views. JA will also let you hold up to 3 stones for free AND give you an ASET on those (one time).

 

[RockAndRoll2006]

Also, without seeing an image of this diamond, are there any concerns with this?

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=2156288826

While it's likely I'll pursue an online vendor, the same in person vendor who I started this thread about has that diamond above. HCA gave it a 1.8...his price on this 1.43 I Si1 seems solid ($8685). I have not seen this one in person yet.

Worth asking for an idealscope?

 

[msop04]

Also, without seeing an image of this diamond, are there any concerns with this?

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=2156288826

While it's likely I'll pursue an online vendor, the same in person vendor who I started this thread about has that diamond above. HCA gave it a 1.8...his price on this 1.43 I Si1 seems solid ($8685). I have not seen this one in person yet.

Worth asking for an idealscope?

I'd wanna see any SI in person to make sure it's eye clean. Why take a chance?? I'd go with a vendor who has photos/videos...

 

[RockAndRoll2006]

I'd wanna see any SI in person to make sure it's eye clean. Why take a chance?? I'd go with a vendor who has photos/videos...

Oh I completely agree. I could see it on Friday. Just curious if there is anything glaring based off that GIA report that others would be concerned with. Seems that if it is actually eye-clean, that's a darn good price for an I Si1.

 

[metatrix]

About that 1.43 SI1: proportions look good to me. Just make sure it is eye clean and not cloudy when you go to see it.

 

[msop04]

I'd wanna see any SI in person to make sure it's eye clean. Why take a chance?? I'd go with a vendor who has photos/videos...

Oh I completely agree. I could see it on Friday. Just curious if there is anything glaring based off that GIA report that others would be concerned with. Seems that if it is actually eye-clean, that's a darn good price for an I Si1.

Oh, okay! As long as you can see it, there is nothing about it that would make me shy away -- numbers look good! Let us know how you like it!

 

[RockAndRoll2006]

Will do! Thanks for your help thus far

 

[teobdl]

I tend to only post JA when someone is searching SI diamonds because they (and Ritani) are the only ones with images you can really scrutinize. Ritani's inventory is more difficult to search through, and not all listed diamonds have the right images for filtering through SI's productively.

I usually also search WF, Brian Gavin, and GOG, but JA's prices are better for (arguably) eye-equivalent product if you use your noggin'. For those two reasons, I mostly end up posting JA for SI diamonds.

For VS2+, I use the PriceScope search function and find the best deals there. Most VS2's will be eye clean, all VS1's (with very few exceptions) will be eye clean, so it's not as important to have the rotating image.

 

[RockAndRoll2006]

Thanks all for the feedback so far!

metatrix, msop04, and others...whats your gut reaction to this diamond?

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-2539750-1.35-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=2539750&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

While I was trying to stay below $9000, that was for an I, eye-clean Si1....this is slightly more, but is an H, Vs1.

HCA:
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.0 - Excellent

I also noticed that the GIA report is for August 26, 2011. Should that be of concern?

 

[metatrix]

I tend to only post JA when someone is searching SI diamonds because they (and Ritani) are the only ones with images you can really scrutinize. Ritani's inventory is more difficult to search through, and not all listed diamonds have the right images for filtering through SI's productively.

I usually also search WF, Brian Gavin, and GOG, but JA's prices are better for (arguably) eye-equivalent product if you use your noggin'. For those two reasons, I mostly end up posting JA for SI diamonds.

For VS2+, I use the PriceScope search function and find the best deals there. Most VS2's will be eye clean, all VS1's (with very few exceptions) will be eye clean, so it's not as important to have the rotating image.

This. Although, even with the 360 image on JA, I still have difficulty determining whether or not a stone is eye clean. Maybe it's just me...

I initially wanted to buy my stone from JA, but I found that the SI2s on there were a lot dirtier than the SI2s my local jewellers had access to, and ultimately, the nice JA SI2s were not any cheaper than buying local...in fact, they were more expensive. In general, I find that the clarity plots of online SI2s are a lot uglier than the clarity plots of local stones. I'm not sure why that is, though.