Would you recut this stone?

[OTL]

I have this tsavorite, it is currently 2.63ct, 8.2x7.7x5. It has a small window in the center, but because the color is pretty intense, so I am positive it will be closed after setting.

The reason I am thinking a recut is because the native cut does not help much with the brilliance. I can see a half half extinction at any time. I really like the part without extinction, very bright yet intense green. I was wondering whether a brilliant cut can turn this stone into a about 80% bright reflection stone?

One concern about a recut I have is the inclusion near the edge, although it is eye clean face up with a distance, it is definitely visible with near examination. I highlight the inclusion with a white circle in the picture. Will that inclusion turn into small pieces when cutting near it? I am kinda worried it will hurt the integration of the stone. Am I being completely paranoid?

Would you recut this stone?

 

[OTL]

As pretty as the bright half is, I can't live with the dark half...

Any cutters? Do you think it's possible to work on this stone?

Please ignore my dirty fingerprint...

 

[chrono]

The inclusion right at that edge is risky. Not only that, you have a fairly large well coloured tsav which could potentially drop under the 2 ct mark and colouration be affected if the inclusion has to be removed. Yes, the issue isn't the window but the extinction. I don't know enough to advise about this type of cut issue but hope many of the regular lapidaries will chime in.

 

[OTL]

The inclusion right at that edge is risky. Not only that, you have a fairly large well coloured tsav which could potentially drop under the 2 ct mark and colouration be affected if the inclusion has to be removed. Yes, the issue isn't the window but the extinction. I don't know enough to advise about this type of cut issue but hope many of the regular lapidaries will chime in.

Thanks Chrono, looks like I am not totally paranoid, I shold be worried about the risk!
Maybe I should send this to a cutter and let them decide. But I just want to get some input on what others might do if they have this stone.

 

[chrono]

I might not have it redone but if a lapidary is wiling to study the stone and advice, I'll be able to make a better and informed decision.

 

[Arkteia]

Personally, I would not. The color is good, with bluish. in it and no yellow, inclusions may be hidden under pronged, and ending up with an 1.5,or less stone is neeot worthy of,it. I might consider rrepolishing it, the polish is not too good or so it seems. But given a jump in prices, no way would I recut it. I could love with half and half, provided one of the half is of a good color. I have a cutter here, and I wanted to recut an emerald and a spinel. He explained me how much I would be losing in $$.
All these stones are becoming rare. I am consider closing a window on a 5+ ct mint, but only because of the color issue. Not extinction.
Sorry for autocorrect typos, I can barely see today.

 

[OTL]

Personally, I would not. The color is good, with bluish. in it and no yellow, inclusions may be hidden under pronged, and ending up with an 1.5,or less stone is neeot worthy of,it. I might consider rrepolishing it, the polish is not too good or so it seems. But given a jump in prices, no way would I recut it. I could love with half and half, provided one of the half is of a good color. I have a cutter here, and I wanted to recut an emerald and a spinel. He explained me how much I would be losing in $$.
All these stones are becoming rare. I am consider closing a window on a 5+ ct mint, but only because of the color issue. Not extinction.
Sorry for autocorrect typos, I can barely see today.

Thanks Arkteia! I didn't know it would lost that much weight! I wish I can do that on my body...

 

[movie zombie]

no, i would not.
i'm with Arkteia.
the extinction problem could get worse, not better.
there are no guarantees with a recut.

 

[ruffysdad]

Hi Otl,

A side shot would be a great help in making a rough evaluation of the stone.

Pete

 

[LD]

Am I correct that the depth is 5mm? If so, it'll be extremely risky to take more off (unless trimming of a few undercarriage facets would do the trick) and could worsen the extinction. If you can't live with it SEND IT BACK. Seriously, I can't tell you how many I kept when I didn't really love them. Tsavs are not difficult to find so I would continue the search.

 

[OTL]

I have talked to a few cutters, and they all said it can be done. Although it is pretty tight. But thanks to all your inputs I will not do it. Guess I can start to appreciate all the good aspects of this stone. Well it is the largest tsavorite I own, and its got a pretty good color with no yellow and very intense. A repolish might be a good idea too!

 

[chrono]

Glad to hear that. I'd be too nervous to risk such a large and well coloured tsavorite. Who is going to repolish it?

 

[Barrett]

How can you live with a stone that blacks out that much. The extinction is pretty bad on that stone. You will need to have a cutter see the stone in person to determine if it's feasible and that the payoff(less extinction) will make up for the loss

Is it a black spinel or a tsavorite?
Just kidding...giving you a hard time. The color is very nice on this tsav

 

[movie zombie]

i hate extinction.
BUT I WOULD NOT CUT THIS STONE.
why?
because color is king.
if there is enough green there that you bought and kept it in the first place, why worry now?

 

[chrono]

Geez Barrett, you nearly gave ME a heart attack.

 

[OTL]

Glad to hear that. I'd be too nervous to risk such a large and well coloured tsavorite. Who is going to repolish it?

Haven't decided yet
But I will have it polished not now, when I am about to set it.

 

[jstarfireb]

Well, I'm going to go against the grain and say I'd recut it if it were safe in the hands of a precision lapidary. I adore precision-cut stones and almost never buy one that's not. I also like small stones and wouldn't care one bit about the weight loss. My biggest tsav is under 6mm and <1ct. I will take a beautifully cut small stone over a half-and-half extinct larger one any day!

Granted, this is not the prevailing opinion among colored stone aficionados. In the trade, color is king and cut is secondary. I'm in the minority of people who are willing to sacrifice size and to a lesser extent color for a precision cut.

 

[chrono]

Jstar,
Just to clarify; in your shoes, let's say you purchased this 2.6 ct tsavorite for $4000 but you are willing to have the extinction removed even if it drops in size to 1.5 carats which is likely to be valued at $2000 (at least a 50% drop)?

 

[movie zombie]

Jstar,
Just to clarify; in your shoes, let's say you purchased this 2.6 ct tsavorite for $4000 but you are willing to have the extinction removed even if it drops in size to 1.5 carats which is likely to be valued at $2000 (at least a 50% drop)?

add in no guarantee that it will be improved?

 

[OTL]

I've got new photos!
It was a shiny day today, and I took some new photos

 

[OTL]

too bright?
darker photos!

 

[lelser]

I have to say that this looks pretty enough to leave alone. The colour is good, and while a precision cut could improve it, with the dimensions it's right at the hairy edge.

You would likely lose more value in weight than you'd gain in cut.

Cheers,

Lisa
www.lisaelser.com

 

[chrono]

Thanks for chiming in, Lisa.

OTL,
Your tsavorite is beautiful. I'd definitely leave it alone and enjoy it as it is. MZ is certainly correct that there is no guarantee what the end colour is going to be after a recut.

 

[OTL]

I have to say that this looks pretty enough to leave alone. The colour is good, and while a precision cut could improve it, with the dimensions it's right at the hairy edge.

You would likely lose more value in weight than you'd gain in cut.

Cheers,

Lisa
www.lisaelser.com

Thanks a bunch!

 

[OTL]

Thanks for chiming in, Lisa.

OTL,
Your tsavorite is beautiful. I'd definitely leave it alone and enjoy it as it is. MZ is certainly correct that there is no guarantee what the end colour is going to be after a recut.

Thanks for all your help!! I just never thought it would loose that much weight. Learning everyday!

 

[chrono]

Typically, if your stone is very clean, you might not lose a lot of carat weight but that pesky inclusion was in the way. Furthermore, when it comes to tsavorite, shaving off even 0.5 carats makes a big difference in valuation, especially for stones above 2 carats.

 

[movie zombie]

OTL, your most recent pictures just reinforce for me that i would NOT cut this stone. lots of good color and i would not want to risk it. either love it or return it [assuming you're not past a return policy date].

 

[gsellis]

It looks like it is cut pretty well. Now if you were asking about the polish... looks like they quit at what about most of us call pre-polish. A better polish on the pavilion might brighten it up, but that is by no means a guarantee. It could be just fingerprints, but it seemed more like a prepolish that just was enough. If I were cutting that originally and started a 50k polish where they left off, some of those streaks would then look like scratchs. BUT - that is also at a level that is not visible with the naked eye. The camera does act like a 5x loupe at times.

 

[OTL]

It looks like it is cut pretty well. Now if you were asking about the polish... looks like they quit at what about most of us call pre-polish. A better polish on the pavilion might brighten it up, but that is by no means a guarantee. It could be just fingerprints, but it seemed more like a prepolish that just was enough. If I were cutting that originally and started a 50k polish where they left off, some of those streaks would then look like scratchs. BUT - that is also at a level that is not visible with the naked eye. The camera does act like a 5x loupe at times.

Hi George, I think those streaks you are referring are my fingerprints...I didn't clean the stone at all before taking a picture.My bad.
I am no sure what is a 50k polish? Other than that, if you think there is anyway to close the window, or make it reflects better please advise. Thanks a lot~~

 

[beau-wy]

I have a lot of stones cut or recut. In my opinion, a consumer should not have an undamaged stone recut unless they are willing to risk destroying it. It doesn't happen often, it does happen. Last year, I had a top-notch cutter have a gorgeous big namibian blue indicolite tourmaline shatter on the wheel. That was disappointing, but in a business sense, and was the only one of close to 50 gems he cut or recut for me that had any issues at all. However, if I was a consumer having THE stone cut for me, it would have been devastating.

With regard to your tsav, my advice would be to either keep it as-is, or sell it and buy what you want. Recutting is your worst option of the three, just my opinion.