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Words I don't know how to pronounce...

amc80

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Messages
5,765
...but am too lazy to look up. Can you help?

Canape
Miserables (as in Les Mis...which is what I always say)...I listened during the Oscars and heard it pronounced both "Mis-er-ah" and "Mis-er-ahb-lay"

Feel free to add to this list!
 
Can-uh-pay
miz-er-rob

Both are French words, I think.
 
I've always pronounced them "can-uh-pay" and "mis-e-rahbl" - I think there is a tendancy for English speakers to omit the "l" in "miserables" just like they ignore the "r" in "Louvre," and when I listen to native French speakers I hear both the "l" and the "r." Not being a French speaker, though, I could be way off the mark!
 
princesss|1361911489|3391063 said:
I've always pronounced them "can-uh-pay" and "mis-e-rahbl" - I think there is a tendancy for English speakers to omit the "l" in "miserables" just like they ignore the "r" in "Louvre," and when I listen to native French speakers I hear both the "l" and the "r." Not being a French speaker, though, I could be way off the mark!

Princess, the correct French pronunciation does omit the -les and the -r in Louvre. French is a funny language with lots of silent syllables.
 
Thanks! I'm sure there are more words...I'll try to think of them and post back.
 
megumic|1361913357|3391107 said:
princesss|1361911489|3391063 said:
I've always pronounced them "can-uh-pay" and "mis-e-rahbl" - I think there is a tendancy for English speakers to omit the "l" in "miserables" just like they ignore the "r" in "Louvre," and when I listen to native French speakers I hear both the "l" and the "r." Not being a French speaker, though, I could be way off the mark!

Princess, the correct French pronunciation does omit the -les and the -r in Louvre. French is a funny language with lots of silent syllables.

I was actually told by a Parisienne that they do say the r in Louvre. Same thing miserables is pronounced mizerob -le. English speakers just don't hear it well. Hopefully there are some native french speakers on here.
 
nkarma|1361918345|3391186 said:
megumic|1361913357|3391107 said:
princesss|1361911489|3391063 said:
I've always pronounced them "can-uh-pay" and "mis-e-rahbl" - I think there is a tendancy for English speakers to omit the "l" in "miserables" just like they ignore the "r" in "Louvre," and when I listen to native French speakers I hear both the "l" and the "r." Not being a French speaker, though, I could be way off the mark!

Princess, the correct French pronunciation does omit the -les and the -r in Louvre. French is a funny language with lots of silent syllables.

I was actually told by a Parisienne that they do say the r in Louvre. Same thing miserables is pronounced mizerob -le. English speakers just don't hear it well. Hopefully there are some native french speakers on here.

I'm not getting involved in this except to say that the native French speakers won't be able to tell you what they hear! Trust me. I have an Italian husband. Have been through this for over 35 years and I know.

Deb/AGBF
:saint:
 
Haha. Well, you sort of pronounce the R in louvre, but not the same way Americans pronounce an R. It's a difficult sound to make and to hear, as AGBF points out. Im not native French, but I lived there and I can read, write and speak French
 
Yes, the "r" in "Louvre" is almost unintelligible to an untrained ear. It's one of those sounds a non-native requires years of practice and immersion to come close to imitating. It's a sound made in the very back of the throat, not unlike making the "guh" noise when you say "glass" in English. At least, that's how I remember our French teacher explaining it. ;))

"Miserables" is also a difficult word to describe phonetically, because of the "r" sound and because of the almost silent "les." The "r" is still in the back of the throat, but the back of the tongue is higher against the throat if that makes sense. I think. I'm completely American but took 4 years of French in high school and a year in college. No immersion, but lots of fun practicing with classmates. I hope any actual French-speaking PS'rs will forgive me if I'm wrong on any of this!
 
I can't think of any words right now but I do know that for the longest time, when I was a child, I said unique like
u-nee-queue. And no one corrected me! I even made a presentation in front of my elementary class and the teacher didn't even correct me. I don't remember how I figured it out... But it was embarrassing.
 
YT|1361949135|3391605 said:
I can't think of any words right now but I do know that for the longest time, when I was a child, I said unique like
u-nee-queue. And no one corrected me! I even made a presentation in front of my elementary class and the teacher didn't even correct me. I don't remember how I figured it out... But it was embarrassing.

Nah, it was just a u-nee-queue pronunciation of the word! Totally for illustrative purposes. :cheeky:

There are a bunch that I come across at random times, and of course I can't think of any now. If I do, I'll post them!
 
megumic|1361913357|3391107 said:
princesss|1361911489|3391063 said:
I've always pronounced them "can-uh-pay" and "mis-e-rahbl" - I think there is a tendancy for English speakers to omit the "l" in "miserables" just like they ignore the "r" in "Louvre," and when I listen to native French speakers I hear both the "l" and the "r." Not being a French speaker, though, I could be way off the mark!

Princess, the correct French pronunciation does omit the -les and the -r in Louvre. French is a funny language with lots of silent syllables.

I'm not sure I agree. French pronunciation does include the /r/ and actually includes a neutral vowel (what we call a schwa) after it, almost making it into two syllables.
 
mayerling|1361960315|3391635 said:
megumic|1361913357|3391107 said:
princesss|1361911489|3391063 said:
I've always pronounced them "can-uh-pay" and "mis-e-rahbl" - I think there is a tendancy for English speakers to omit the "l" in "miserables" just like they ignore the "r" in "Louvre," and when I listen to native French speakers I hear both the "l" and the "r." Not being a French speaker, though, I could be way off the mark!

Princess, the correct French pronunciation does omit the -les and the -r in Louvre. French is a funny language with lots of silent syllables.

I'm not sure I agree. French pronunciation does include the /r/ and actually includes a neutral vowel (what we call a schwa) after it, almost making it into two syllables.

Yeah, I mean, I definitely don't hear "Next stop, Loo-ver" with a really pronounced "r" sound when I'm on the Metro in Paris, but I do hear something that resembles "Loo-vruh" where the "ruh" part is quiet and almost swallowed. Same with "miserables" - I hear the very last sound in that word like a swallowed version of the "bl-" in "blow."
 
princesss|1361973557|3391688 said:
mayerling|1361960315|3391635 said:
megumic|1361913357|3391107 said:
princesss|1361911489|3391063 said:
I've always pronounced them "can-uh-pay" and "mis-e-rahbl" - I think there is a tendancy for English speakers to omit the "l" in "miserables" just like they ignore the "r" in "Louvre," and when I listen to native French speakers I hear both the "l" and the "r." Not being a French speaker, though, I could be way off the mark!

Princess, the correct French pronunciation does omit the -les and the -r in Louvre. French is a funny language with lots of silent syllables.

I'm not sure I agree. French pronunciation does include the /r/ and actually includes a neutral vowel (what we call a schwa) after it, almost making it into two syllables.

Yeah, I mean, I definitely don't hear "Next stop, Loo-ver" with a really pronounced "r" sound when I'm on the Metro in Paris, but I do hear something that resembles "Loo-vruh" where the "ruh" part is quiet and almost swallowed. Same with "miserables" - I hear the very last sound in that word like a swallowed version of the "bl-" in "blow."

Oh yeah, it's definitely not 'Loo-ver', it is more like 'Loo-vruh'. Also, with my professional hat on (I'm a speech scientist), the 'e' in canapé is not pronounced like the vowel in 'pay'. It is pronounced like the vowel in 'bed', 'pet', 'red', 'met', etc. If you say 'met' and 'mate' out lout you'll hear the difference. However, since English doesn't allow the vowel in 'met' to occur without a consonant following it, to most speakers of English words like 'ballet', 'fillet', 'canapé' sound like they have an 'ay' sound in them.

Edit: 'miserables' in French definitely has the 'l' sound, usually followed by a neutral vowel again.
 
mayerling|1361975132|3391708 said:
princesss|1361973557|3391688 said:
mayerling|1361960315|3391635 said:
megumic|1361913357|3391107 said:
princesss|1361911489|3391063 said:
I've always pronounced them "can-uh-pay" and "mis-e-rahbl" - I think there is a tendancy for English speakers to omit the "l" in "miserables" just like they ignore the "r" in "Louvre," and when I listen to native French speakers I hear both the "l" and the "r." Not being a French speaker, though, I could be way off the mark!

Princess, the correct French pronunciation does omit the -les and the -r in Louvre. French is a funny language with lots of silent syllables.

I'm not sure I agree. French pronunciation does include the /r/ and actually includes a neutral vowel (what we call a schwa) after it, almost making it into two syllables.

Yeah, I mean, I definitely don't hear "Next stop, Loo-ver" with a really pronounced "r" sound when I'm on the Metro in Paris, but I do hear something that resembles "Loo-vruh" where the "ruh" part is quiet and almost swallowed. Same with "miserables" - I hear the very last sound in that word like a swallowed version of the "bl-" in "blow."

Oh yeah, it's definitely not 'Loo-ver', it is more like 'Loo-vruh'. Also, with my professional hat on (I'm a speech scientist), the 'e' in canapé is not pronounced like the vowel in 'pay'. It is pronounced like the vowel in 'bed', 'pet', 'red', 'met', etc. If you say 'met' and 'mate' out lout you'll hear the difference. However, since English doesn't allow the vowel in 'met' to occur without a consonant following it, to most speakers of English words like 'ballet', 'fillet', 'canapé' sound like they have an 'ay' sound in them.

Edit: 'miserables' in French definitely has the 'l' sound, usually followed by a neutral vowel again.

Ooooh, very cool! This actually reminds me of a discussion I had with BF last week - he was trying to teach me how to say something in Welsh (which I have clearly forgotten), and no matter what I did he kept saying I was pronouncing it wrong. For the life of me I could not hear a difference! I knew that the languages you are exposed to as a child influence how well you're able to speak them as an adult and the kinds of sounds you're able to make, but I hadn't considered that it would also affect the sounds you're able to hear.
 
My DH is studying French right now as a hobby to prepare for when we go to France (eventually), and having 3 years of high school French under my belt, I try to help him with pronounciation, but it's tough. 'Miserables' and 'louvre' are good examples. The 'l' is pronounced, but it's like you move your mouth to make an 'l' sound, but you don't actually enunciate it the way you do in English. Same with the 'r' in Louvre. But I kind of think of it as an American pronounciation that is acceptable, like how we don't say 'Pare-ree' but 'Pare-riss' for Paris.

Then there are those English words taken from French, like 'armoire' which most people pronounce 'arm-mwar' but my mother tries to pronounce 'arm-wah' and it drives me nuts. :rolleyes:
 
My take on it:

mee zeh rahbluh*

*the "r" is pronounced at the throat rather than with the lips, and the "bluh" is more like just a short, single sound, than another sylable.


But... I'm notoriously bad when it comes to pronunciations - I thought meelee was pronounced meh-lay rather than not mel-ee! :wink2:
 
I lived in France, too. Had studied French forever. Had been praised on my French by native French speakers here in the States. Whenever I opened my mouth in France, someone asked me, immediately (in French) "Are you German or English?". So much for my great accent.

Deb
:saint:
 
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