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Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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is there a point when it isn't worth going? nowadays, even 4 yrs of basic college can easily add up to $100K.
 

Circe

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Depends on where you go. I got my undergrad education at city college for less than 10K - not per year, for all 4 years - and then I got fellowships for my graduate education, as most people do. It all depends on what sort of a college experience you want and are willing to pay for.
 

lbbaber

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It all depends on what you plan on doing for a living. I wish I had thought more about $$ BEFORE I picked a major!!

Getting a degree doesn't always guarantee more $$, here is a perfect example:
I have B.S and a B.A. and I have almost completed my masters but I only make (or made before I became a SAHM last year) between 60-70k/yr, my SO makes 3x as much without a degree!!! Ironically, he is getting a degree now (just got his associates) bc he felt self-conscious about not having one. I wish I could have made his kind of $$ without spending all those years studying!
 

MichelleCarmen

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Yes, unless a person has a great connection and that will lead to a high-paying job, he/she should go to college IMO. A friend of mine makes $100K+ and he didn't go to school. He lucked out!

I do hope my boys go to school - both are talking about which field they wish to enter (even though they're only 8 and 10) and they will have to go to a university for any sort of job in that field. Hopefully by the time they're ready, the option to go to a CC for the first two years then transfer to a university will still be an available.

There is always the alternative of a trade school, as well. I cannot imagine graduating from high school and not furthering education on some level to help increase pay and provide a decent standard-of-living.
 

suchende

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I graduated in 5 semesters from a Big 10, and spent around $10k total, which I paid for by working. But now I am spending $160k on a law degree. Some people might question the wisdom of 1) attending law school 2) not going to a less prestigious school for free 3) not going to the best school I got into and paying full freight. At both the undergrad and grad school levels, however, where you choose to go impacts your career prospects. If you're making a calculated investment, what you pay and where you go is about your own risk sensitivity. If you're just going to school for the experience, cost should be a big consideration. Personally, I took a year off to grow between college and high school. I traveled, learned a forgein language, and came home with more sense than I left with.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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lbbaber|1302893114|2897070 said:
It all depends on what you plan on doing for a living. I wish I had thought more about $$ BEFORE I picked a major!!

Getting a degree doesn't always guarantee more $$, here is a perfect example:
I have B.S and a B.A. and I have almost completed my masters but I only make (or made before I became a SAHM last year) between 60-70k/yr, my SO makes 3x as much without a degree!!! Ironically, he is getting a degree now (just got his associates) bc he felt self-conscious about not having one. I wish I could have made his kind of $$ without spending all those years studying!
yep,i known few of those people too. all about timing,luck,right place at the right time... ;))
 

manderz

Brilliant_Rock
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There absolutely is. My bff has a degree, and I make as much (on unemployment, without a degree) as she does. I'm working on my degree though, and I will hopefully be able to not struggle anymore, or worry about ZOMG sales aren't high enough, you're getting canned!
 

mrswahs

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Jan 18, 2011
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499
My degree was about $30k tuition plus cost of books. It was PROBABLY not worth it, simply because of my field. I work in video production and I honestly got nothing out of the classes. I had more hands on experience before I started college than any of the students who I graduated with had by graduation. The field I work in is more about experience than that piece of paper on the wall.

There are definitely jobs that require a degree in video production, but the degree honestly doesn't mean anything. In my field you're better off as a freelancer than having a full time gig, so ultimately, no it doesn't matter.
 

Autumnovember

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4,384
Dancing Fire|1302894069|2897091 said:
lbbaber|1302893114|2897070 said:
It all depends on what you plan on doing for a living. I wish I had thought more about $$ BEFORE I picked a major!!

Getting a degree doesn't always guarantee more $$, here is a perfect example:
I have B.S and a B.A. and I have almost completed my masters but I only make (or made before I became a SAHM last year) between 60-70k/yr, my SO makes 3x as much without a degree!!! Ironically, he is getting a degree now (just got his associates) bc he felt self-conscious about not having one. I wish I could have made his kind of $$ without spending all those years studying!
yep,i known few of those people too. all about timing,luck,right place at the right time... ;))


Yep...agreed.
 

elrohwen

Ideal_Rock
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May 20, 2008
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I think it completely depends on what you want to do for a living. There are plenty of jobs that require (for very good reason) a certain degree or level of degree. I couldn't be an engineer without a BS in engineering. Also, DH could make way more at our company if he had a PhD, though he does the exact same job as plenty of PhDs. There are fields where a degree is still very important and the salary is good enough to pay for loans (not that I want my kids to graduate with $100k in loans, of course, but some amount can be paid back and PhD level grad school for engineers is typically paid for).
 

diamondringlover

Ideal_Rock
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I sometimes wonder the same thing, my son has a friend that was about $40,000 in debt when he graduated (he got alot of scholarship money), my son went to college but dropped out after 2 years :(sad anyway currently the friend is only making a little bit more per year then my son...so I dont know anymore if it is worth it...I guess it depends on the type of degree and what you do with it.
 

fleur-de-lis

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Apr 25, 2007
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As long as possessing a B.A./B.S. is a requirement for H.R. to even look at a resume for an entry level job opening, matriculation will still seem a worthwhile pursuit.
 

mrscushion

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I've thought quite a bit about this recently, as there have also been some articles on the "higher education bubble". Basically, with tuition this high I would go to Harvard on one end, or to a public school on state-tuition on the other, but I wouldn't go to to many of the second (or even first) tier smaller private colleges. Granted, I have been out of college for not even 10 years yet, but I do not see the ROI in terms of career in my friends whose parents spent a lot of money on small liberal arts-school educations. I think that those schools are financially struggling for a reason.
 

luv2sparkle

Ideal_Rock
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I have one son at UCLA. He has a 5K scholarship per year, but we have paid the rest. He is finishing his third year and will
graduate in 4. He will not have any debt but we have spent close to the 100K mark. He is now talking about going to NYU for a
specialized MA in publishing. I want him to do what ever he wants but I am concerned about him getting in debt. We just had
this conversation this morning about counting all the costs and determining if it is worth it.

I read a study not to long ago that took all the factors of cost and some professions over the course of a lifetime of earnings only
made 7500. more with a higher degree. That would make it not worth it. It is hard to know for sure.
 

iLander

Ideal_Rock
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What you're talking about is return on investment.

I have to tell you, after reading several articles on this subject, most college educations offer a VERY poor ROI. My neighbor's kid wants to go to a fancy private art college, to the tune of $40K per year. After $160K he will be eligible for a $35K job, in a field that is already crowded and jobs are scarce. So, no, I don't think his education would be a good ROI.

Here's an article in BusinessWeek; http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/special_reports/20110407college_return_on_investment.htm

I think this is a good discussion to have. The way college costs are rising, I think parents deserve some answers and accountability. I think the old days of "learning for the sake of learning" have been killed by the realities of the economy. Parents can't be expected to foot the bill for four years of finding yourself.

I think a lot depends on the major choice, though. I've always been amazed at one of my BF's who majored in Spanish; what did she think she was going to do with THAT? :confused: Ultimately, she had to go back to school and get an MBA (she had to really scramble to get accepted to a grad program).

ETA: But I DO think a degree is necessary in the vast majority of fields. If you look on monster.com or careerbuilder.com, almost every office-type job listed requires a college degree. When in doubt, get a business degree at a cheap state college.
 

Jessie702

Ideal_Rock
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Mar 29, 2009
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2,308
OMG....dont get me started on school. I attend UNLV, and i dont know if anyone has heard, but in NV, we have a defecit of MILLIONS of dollars for schooling. Heck, for jut about everything. So my school, will be going up in tuition next year, along with letting go of 300 professors, going up on the price of Room and Board, Parking prices, and they are getting rid of 22 programs. If you are in the program, you have 2 years to finish it, but if you are an entering freshman, you have to find another program, or go to another school. So far, Economics, Phil., some education programs, some art programs, education programs, and some sciene programs are on the chopping block. Professor who will still have a job are thinking of leaving, due to an instable job security. I am BEYONG frustrated with my college, but am about 2 years from done, and its cheaper than going out of state. Also, UNLV isnt a high ranked college, but with them making the cuts they are, it will drop UNLV even more, making it harder for students who want to go to Grad school, or Law/Med.

So yeah, i understand and feel the pain.
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
Hey, come to the UK - even with the student fees going up it's still a bargain!

I graduated with a £1k overdraft and having spent a total of £10k on maintenance (tuition was free).
 

ksinger

Ideal_Rock
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5,083
iLander|1302902382|2897216 said:
What you're talking about is return on investment.

I have to tell you, after reading several articles on this subject, most college educations offer a VERY poor ROI. My neighbor's kid wants to go to a fancy private art college, to the tune of $40K per year. After $160K he will be eligible for a $35K job, in a field that is already crowded and jobs are scarce. So, no, I don't think his education would be a good ROI.

Here's an article in BusinessWeek; http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/special_reports/20110407college_return_on_investment.htm

I think this is a good discussion to have. The way college costs are rising, I think parents deserve some answers and accountability. I think the old days of "learning for the sake of learning" have been killed by the realities of the economy. Parents can't be expected to foot the bill for four years of finding yourself.

I think a lot depends on the major choice, though. I've always been amazed at one of my BF's who majored in Spanish; what did she think she was going to do with THAT? :confused: Ultimately, she had to go back to school and get an MBA (she had to really scramble to get accepted to a grad program).

ETA: But I DO think a degree is necessary in the vast majority of fields. If you look on monster.com or careerbuilder.com, almost every office-type job listed requires a college degree. When in doubt, get a business degree at a cheap state college.

No such thing anymore, really. (although I understand what you're saying)

And an art degree has NEVER been good for career training, which is what college has devolved into. It wasn't when I was in college and it's even worse now. (I have a friend with 2 daughters with fine arts degrees and they are struggling mightily.) The only way a person can reasonably do this and expect to not starve, is if they really ARE the next Picasso, OR they have a trust fund.

I have nothing but sympathy for the people trying to navigate college now. I can barely comprehend the debt levels, or think that they would be worth what you get for it. My 5 years of college saw me at the end with a total debt of $9800 - from Uncle Sam himself, not from some 3rd party. Things have changed a LOT.

All I know is if you need training, go to college for that training - but dont' expect a real education in any traditional sense, since apparently all the subjects that are deemed increasingly unimportant - like art, phil, history, etc, are being done away with. If you want an "education" you're pretty much going to have to be self-starter anymore and do it yourself.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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A charity I do some work for hires social workers/councilors/life coaches.
They have a waiting list for one of the hardest jobs there is mentally and someone very rarely makes it past 3 years.
Requirement: Masters degree ... pay $40k per year.
There is no way you can pay for school on that salary yet people are lining up to take the job.
 

soocool

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DD was accepted into a Pharma D program (6 year) and has received a full scholarship. Any incidentals will be paid with cashing in savings bonds that we have held for over 20 years (no taxes if used for education) and other money stashed away for this purpose. She will not have to use any of her own savings for college expenses, but has been working the past summers and on Saturdays/Sundays to earn money for her own incidentals. I was totally surprised DD was taking this direction (thought she would be an engineer), but she loves Math and Science and excels in those 2 areas and has researched the field and has visited a number of Pharmacy schools and has had many interviews with the department heads to discuss her future. I have no doubt once she completes school she will have a job and will do well.
 

fieryred33143

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College is, and always will be, worth the investment in my eyes. No one can convince me otherwise.
 

ksinger

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fiery|1302963465|2897674 said:
College is, and always will be, worth the investment in my eyes. No one can convince me otherwise.

But if it saddles a person with crushing debt that can't be discharged with the job you "trained" for (say Karl's social worker for example - the cost of that masters is the same as the cost of the masters in a field that might be more lucrative), I'm at a loss as to how anyone could call that a good "investment", at least from a purely economic standpoint.
 

luv2sparkle

Ideal_Rock
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It is so hard to decide what to do when it comes to getting a masters. My son is really having a hard time with this decision. He is
a kid who is very decisive. I really don't want him to get into debt. I just don't think it is worth it. I am not sure it will make a
difference in making him more marketable.

The rising cost of tuition is huge as well. UCLA went up 46% in one year!! What really ticks me off is, they won't let you pay for
the year ahead at all so they can raise your tuition whenever they want. If I could, I would pay for next year right now. I can't even
pay for next quarter early.
 

rosetta

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Depends on what you study.

FI and I both went to medical school. We are both still training so we only earn about $80k each we hope to be earning a lot more in a few more years (ok, 3 years for me, 14 months for him where's the jealous icon?)
 

Haven

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I went to college to earn an education, which I did. I think it was worth every penny.

I went to graduate school to earn qualifications for the job I hoped to pursue. I had scholarships to all of my grad schools, and wouldn't have gone if it was going to cost me anything.

I grew up in an area where it was expected that everyone goes to college. I saw many of my peers attending mediocre or just decent state schools *in other states* because they couldn't get into our best state school, and they didn't want to go to another in-state school because they felt it would look better to go to that *other* state's school even though it was just as easy to get in, there. So, these students ended up spending many times more on their college educations simply because they wanted to go to a Big Ten school and couldn't get into their own state's Big Ten. That, I think, is a poor choice for anyone who doesn't have a huge college fund waiting for them.

The other thing is this: College isn't for everyone. I see a lot of kids struggling to get through basic college courses when it just isn't in the cards for them. They will lose a lot of time and money learning this.
 

fieryred33143

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ksinger|1302966307|2897724 said:
fiery|1302963465|2897674 said:
College is, and always will be, worth the investment in my eyes. No one can convince me otherwise.

But if it saddles a person with crushing debt that can't be discharged with the job you "trained" for (say Karl's social worker for example - the cost of that masters is the same as the cost of the masters in a field that might be more lucrative), I'm at a loss as to how anyone could call that a good "investment", at least from a purely economic standpoint.

What a pity that you feel "at a loss." Hope your Saturday gets better!

As I stated previously, no one can convince me otherwise. I don't have the same background as most on this forum do so it is difficult to explain/quantify what being a college graduate means to someone with my background/upbringing. That is why I included the words "worth the investment
to me. I don't expect anyone else to feel the same, understand, or agree. But if someone asks whether it is my opinion that college is worth it, I will always answer yes.
 

suchende

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
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I guess there is a difference between college as an experience and source of status and college as a financial investment. One has a subjective value that varies, the other is quantifiably a good or bad investment. I can see how a bad financial investment in school could still be a subjectively worthwhile choice.
 

aviastar

Brilliant_Rock
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I have, not only a fine arts degree, but a performing arts degree. Did I think I was really going to be able to make a living as an actor? Um, yes-not very many people get famous, but there are commericals, films, and stage work a-plenty. And a large majority of my classmates are making ends meet as actors, so its very possible. Personally, I chose to go back and get a Masters in Arts Administration and now I manage an arts center. There's no denying I am lucky to have a steady job in my fine arts field- but what strikes me most about this thread is the implied definition of 'success' or that a return on a investment must be monetary.

I don't make a huge amount of money- I run a small non profit arts center!-but I LOVE what I do, I BELIEVE in what I do, and going to work every day makes me HAPPY. Would it have been easier if what I loved to do paid me hundreds of thousands of dollars? Yes. But I get to go to work every day and be a part of something that's important to me and important to my community.

My SO is in the same boat-even together we make around or just below the average housedold income in the states. But we live simply, within our means, and we are happy.

What good is making a lot of money if you are miserable doing it?

All that said, I do feel that the quest for a college degree has narrowed our field of vision too much, that trade schools and apprenticeships are really great options that aren't utilized enough. And nothing prepares you for working in the field better than working in the field!

However you prepare for your career, I do think that it is money and time well spent if it helps you lead a life you are content to lead.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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ksinger|1302966307|2897724 said:
fiery|1302963465|2897674 said:
College is, and always will be, worth the investment in my eyes. No one can convince me otherwise.

But if it saddles a person with crushing debt that can't be discharged with the job you "trained" for (say Karl's social worker for example - the cost of that masters is the same as the cost of the masters in a field that might be more lucrative), I'm at a loss as to how anyone could call that a good "investment", at least from a purely economic standpoint.
yep, doesn't make any sence.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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rosetta|1302968844|2897758 said:
Depends on what you study.

FI and I both went to medical school. We are both still training so we only earn about $80k each we hope to be earning a lot more in a few more years (ok, 3 years for me, 14 months for him where's the jealous icon?)
that is good money compared to my wife's niece whom only makes about $50k while in training.
 
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