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Will you take a Covid 19 shot as soon as it is available?

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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21,549
I am not, yet, thinking of a vaccine against covid19. I am trying to plan out when to get the pneumonia vaccinations I had planned to get (that I postponed because I was under lockdown and a clinic within a CVS pharmacy with sick people all around was the last place I wanted to hang out) and when to get my fall 'flu shot.

Since I am still reluctant to go ito a Minute Ckiic inside a CVS store Pharmacy area, maybe I won't get immunized against pneumonia this year. It seemed like a good idea to go ahead with what I had already planned when this new respiratory virus came along! (I know it is not only a respiratory virus, but it does affect the respiratory system.)
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I'll take one for the team.
Same. As soon as I feel it’s safe my dh and I will get the vaccine. If everyone decided against getting the vaccine we might be in deep trouble. I hope an effective vaccine is developed.

If many decided no more vaccines in general we would be in bigger trouble. Imagine the diseases that would come back. It would be devastating.





For those who have health reasons and shouldn’t be vaccinated that’s one thing. But for those who simply don’t want to for philosophical reasons that’s an entirely different story. IMO.
 

OboeGal

Brilliant_Rock
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I agree and feel the same. I didn't used to have a problem with vaccines until I got my first flu shot when I was 23. A week later I came down with severe flu/pneumonia. First and last time I've ever had the flu. I'll never get that shot again. However, I get tetanus regularly and just had the non-mercurized Shingrix series last year. I will wait a while for the Covid shot...
It's almost certain that your bout of flu and pneumonia had nothing to do with the shot itself. The shot takes at least a couple weeks to ramp up to full immunity, so if you happen to be exposed after getting the shot but before full immunity is reached, you'll likely get the full bout of flu. This is one of the situations we hear about it in discussions of the flu vaccine: "I got the shot and it gave me the flu." That can't happen because the shot is not a live virus vaccine; without going into the weeds of how immunology works, suffice it to say that it's impossible for the shot to cause the flu. In these cases, what happens is that the person receiving the vaccine inadvertantly got exposed around the same time - many times it was during the trip out to get the vaccine! - and came down with it because the vaccine had not ramped up to full effect yet. Or possibly because the vaccine that year was not a good "prediction" of which flu strains were going to be circulating and didn't cover the strain to which they were exposed.
 

SandyinAnaheim

Brilliant_Rock
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It's almost certain that your bout of flu and pneumonia had nothing to do with the shot itself. The shot takes at least a couple weeks to ramp up to full immunity, so if you happen to be exposed after getting the shot but before full immunity is reached, you'll likely get the full bout of flu. This is one of the situations we hear about it in discussions of the flu vaccine: "I got the shot and it gave me the flu." That can't happen because the shot is not a live virus vaccine; without going into the weeds of how immunology works, suffice it to say that it's impossible for the shot to cause the flu. In these cases, what happens is that the person receiving the vaccine inadvertantly got exposed around the same time - many times it was during the trip out to get the vaccine! - and came down with it because the vaccine had not ramped up to full effect yet. Or possibly because the vaccine that year was not a good "prediction" of which flu strains were going to be circulating and didn't cover the strain to which they were exposed.
This is exactly what some of the doctors I've discussed it with say. There are others that are not surprised and have seen it before. We were offered free flu shots at work, a workers' comp medical clinic. Very coincidental bad luck for me.
 

OboeGal

Brilliant_Rock
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689
I hope I didn't influence your decision, my nurse friend is just one example, many more probably took the shot without incident.

I personally do not get any shots but that is my own decision, obviously if someone decides to get them then that is what they feel is best for them. It would just be great if vaccination was approached with more consideration for individual risk and they are not currently.
I'm sorry that your son has had an adverse reaction. I can certainly see why that would give you pause, and why you would wish to advocate for vaccine safety and research into preventing such events.

In my personal opinion, I think that here in the US, the vaccine schedule for children has gone a bit overboard in aggressiveness, both in total numbers of vaccines and how many are given at the same time or over a very short period of time. That's a lot to ask of the immune system and the liver of a tiny human to deal with all at once. If I had a young child right now, I would certainly be spacing out vaccines from each other more, would research what the risks are of acquiring natural immunity from some diseases, would not rush out, but take a little more time, to get very new vaccines for which not much is known, and would look to places like western Europe and the Nordic European countries for how they handle the vaccine schedule. That is how I handle vaccines for my pets. That said, I believe the overwhelming majority of vaccines are safe for the overwhelming majority of people except for some who are immunocompromised and folks with certain allergies. I think we have to weigh the incidence of adverse reactions versus the incidence of severe illness, disability, and death across the population if we did not vaccinate for serious illnesses at the public health level, and that the population-wide numbers need to be what drive the decision. It's good to have people who are advocating for safety and watching development and events closely; that is critically important and should continue. I just hate to see that become an all-or-nothing, I-will-never-get-any-vaccine-no-matter-what position; that becomes very risky on both a personal health level and a public health level. I hope that individuals who have concerns can approach it from a more nuanced position of looking at each vaccine, and the disease it's for, on their merits.

As a personal example - I've had the heck vaccinated out of myself. Seriously. I had all the childhood immunizations that were normal for children born in the 1960s; I've tried to remember to get the tetanus booster within 10 year intervals my whole life; I just had a measles/mumps/rubella (MMR) booster a year ago, as some in my age group have lost immunity to those, at least here in the US; I've had a two-shot sequence against Hepatitis A over the last year because it was circulating in restaurant workers and the population in the city closest to me and can be very, very serious; and I've had to have the entire rabies series twice, along with beta globulin injections, due to potential exposures. I've never had more than a sore arm and a touch of a feverish feeling from any of them. I've also gotten the flu shot plenty of times. Now, that is one that I approach with more nuance, because it is not likely to be a serious illness for me yet at my age, BUT.....it could be quite serious for people that I might be around, or it could be a real problem for my work. (As a musician, if I should get the flu during a run of a show and have to miss a bunch of rehearsals or, worse yet, a bunch of performances, well.......that just can't happen. It's not like I can take sick time and make up the hours missed. The rehearsals/shows will go on either without my part - a disaster for the whole production - or with a sub rushing in to cover my part - also not ideal, and disastrous for me income- and career-wise - or with me there barely able to function and infecting everyone around me. All really bad, and also all ways to ensure that I never get hired again there, and possibly anywhere else that is in contact with the contractor there.) So, some years I get the shot - if I think I might be around high-risk people or if it's necessary to avoid illness at a show - and some years I don't, if I'm able to hunker down at home for the most part during flu season, avoid truly vulnerable people, and would be able to stay home if I might have been exposed or become ill.

As far as a vaccine against COVID-19, DH and I almost certainly will get it, but we're not going to rush into it until there's some data, and we will need to feel that reasonable safety measures were not slighted in its development. We're pondering whether or not to get the flu shot this year. We strongly believe that anyone who is going to be out and about seriously needs to get it this year, because hospitals can come close to being overwhelmed with just a bad flu season alone; what will happen with that and COVID together this winter? We NEED to make sure that flu cases are at an absolute minimum. The only reason against it for us is that we have no plans to be out and about; we are seriously sheltering in place until there is a COVID vaccine or effective treatment, so our likelihood of getting the flu is low, and we risk getting COVID by going out to get the flu shots. So.....hmmmmmm......
 

Austina

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 24, 2017
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Not sure if you’ll be able to read this article, but sounds promising from the Oxford vaccine trials.

F43E8AF4-C073-4B9A-8181-4380CEF88E76.jpeg
 

moneymeister

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
1,591
I have three comorbidities and at fifty-five, not looking to find out how well I do with the virus.
I'll take the shot.

I do have a question about the vaccine - if some people have an immune over-reaction to the virus and survive the illness, then get a follow up shot (as there is some talk that surviving COVID does not grant long term immunity) will their bodies possibly over-react to the vaccine?
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jun 8, 2008
Messages
36,302
I have three comorbidities and at fifty-five, not looking to find out how well I do with the virus.
I'll take the shot.

I do have a question about the vaccine - if some people have an immune over-reaction to the virus and survive the illness, then get a follow up shot (as there is some talk that surviving COVID does not grant long term immunity) will their bodies possibly over-react to the vaccine?
That’s an excellent question. I feel you. We’re the same age and I also have comorbidities.

I believe the mRNA-1273 candidate doesn’t generate the same type of immune response as the virus does.




I believe @Mekp touched upon this in their post. But I’m on my phone and can’t scroll to the next page so I could be remembering wrong. I read his/her reply last night.
 

moneymeister

Brilliant_Rock
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Sep 20, 2009
Messages
1,591
That’s an excellent question. I feel you. We’re the same age and I also have comorbidities.

I believe the mRNA-1273 candidate doesn’t generate the same type of immune response as the virus does.




I believe @Mekp touched upon this in their post. But I’m on my phone and can’t scroll to the next page so I could be remembering wrong. I read his/her reply last night.
Thanks Missy, I'll look for the thread.

Hang in there - I can't wait until we're safe to close this chapter in history.
 
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
381
That’s an excellent question. I feel you. We’re the same age and I also have comorbidities.

I believe the mRNA-1273 candidate doesn’t generate the same type of immune response as the virus does.




I believe @Mekp touched upon this in their post. But I’m on my phone and can’t scroll to the next page so I could be remembering wrong. I read his/her reply last night.
Thanks Missy, I'll look for the thread.

Hang in there - I can't wait until we're safe to close this chapter in history.
My daughter has narcolepsy, too. She developed it suddenly right after a bad case of pneumonia.
The thing with the H1N1 connection to narcolepsy is only the Pandemrix vaccine, which was only given in a few European countries, has actually been shown to have triggered narcolepsy. The vaccine responsible was never given in North America. In fact, contracting H1N1 also seemed to have some increased risk for triggering Narcolepsy.

The reason this is important is that anti-vaxxers sometimes use the H1N1 vaccine and Narcolepsy to "prove" that vaccines are unsafe when the research has shown it was one version of the vaccine. Furthermore, illnesses themselves can trigger autoimmune illnesses. Who knows what Covid 19 may trigger.

If I could have vaccinated my daughter against the pneumonia which triggered her Narcolepsy I absolutely would have.
You said it before I could’ve. If anyone is interested in reading up about the history of Pandemix and it’s association with narcolepsy, I would also like to point out that this association was established only using data from a few Scandinavian countries, only with Pandemix (not all H1N1 vaccines and definitely not all vaccines in general), and only for adolescents aged 12-16. The actual number of individuals developing narcolepsy symptoms after being vaccinated were still extremely low, but a clear correlation could still be established in the Swedish/Finnish data. There was no association found for adults. Other studies (such as one by Stanford, if I remember correctly) found that narcolepsy was associated with contracting upper respiratory infections. The H1N1 vaccine was generally found to be effective at both preventing infection and reducing severity.

edit to add (to keep on topic with the thread) - the H1N1 vaccines operated in 2 ways: inactivated virus and weakened live virus. The moderna vaccine for Covid-19, in contrast, is an m-RNA vaccine, which is generally accepted as a much safer way to vaccinate as it does not involve being injected with infectious elements (even weakened or inactivated elements) with a lower chance of side effects (and is really a medical breakthrough). mRNA, if it works, is a technology that would allow for effective vaccination against other highly infectious and mutative viruses.
I didn’t know how else to indicate the quotes where @Mekp and I briefly discussed vaccine efficacy yesterday, so I just quoted them here.

By the way, here’s a short and easy to understand primer on mRNA vaccines (like the moderna one) and why they’re so encouraging. https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines
 

YadaYadaYada

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 2, 2016
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@OboeGal, I really appreciate your post and I understand your perspective. I have written about my experience on PS before so I won't go into it, anyone who wanted to could find the thread I'm sure.

One thing that I will say is that there needs to be some sort of testing done to identify individuals who are more suceptible to a reaction instead of the current standard which is accepting that a reaction is so rare and taking the chance anyways. Our son was under 5lbs when he was born but they gave him the same amount of vaccine as an 8lb baby. His titres were pulled for his MMR and with just one dose his response was way over what he needed to be considered immune. Had he gotten the second one who is to say how his immune system would react.

Again this is an example of how we need to stop this one size fits all approach when it comes to vaccination. There needs to be reform for there to be trust. The government has granted the vaccine manufacturers full immunity, if their product is safe for all then let them stand behind their product like everyone else, if they are truly safe for all then there is no need for the law in the first place.
 

moneymeister

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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I didn’t know how else to indicate the quotes where @Mekp and I briefly discussed vaccine efficacy yesterday, so I just quoted them here.

By the way, here’s a short and easy to understand primer on mRNA vaccines (like the moderna one) and why they’re so encouraging. https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines
Super helpful - thanks @AllAboardTheBlingTrain , you saved the hunt!
I'll check out information on the vaccine at the link.
After this thread, I jumped to Reddit's COVID-19 board. I have no background in medicine, so I have to "reach" sometimes, but saw two posts I thought were interesting on treatments and immunity.

The first was a study with the use of low dose radiation to treat the COVID Pneumonia.

Also, new data on Tcells and Coronavirus

Bless all the medical professionals scrambling to figure out how to treat, vaccinate and keep our world well.
 

lyra

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 13, 2007
Messages
5,067
I think IF there is a vaccine, it will become an annual thing. So I'll be getting that and the flu shot every year, and the rest of the family will have to do both as well, to protect me and my DH. I'm sure Canada will take longer to approve a vaccine. I did get the H1N1 vaccine the first year it was available, no side effects. I'll take any amount % of protection. If it's 50%, I'll still get it.
 

jaaron

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Messages
675
I'm not too worried about having to make a decision. If the ability to manage testing in the US & UK are anything to go by, by the time they roll it out, prioritise the first responders and manage to get enough vaccine supply and syringes (scary articles out there on looming syringe shortages) to start giving it to the general population at large, I think we'll have a pretty good idea on how safe it is.

But I'll straight up admit, I'm a pro-vaxxer. Get the flu shot every year, have had pneumonia and shingles, although I'm a little on the young side for those, and even made my sons get Gardasil.

I have a question for people who say they won't take a Covid vaccine because the flu vaccine is ineffective. Aren't they apples and oranges? I thought the flu vaccine is sometimes ineffective because they're guessing at the strains that will be prevalent in a given year? Whereas with Covid-19, they know exactly what they're vaccinating against.

Also, for those who think Bill Gates wants to insert a microchip (he doesn't, by the way), I've got news for you. If you have a phone, an internet connection, a bank account, a credit card, a social security number, facebook, instagram, twitter or have ever ordered from Amazon, he already can. So live it up, take the vaccine, maybe save a few lives.
 

YadaYadaYada

Ideal_Rock
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I don't believe the Gates thing and the reason we are not getting the COVID shot has nothing to do with the flu shot. Maybe there are people who believe in all that but I'm not one of them.

Although I have heard that "health certificates" may be a requirement for travel to prove immunity for COVID. No idea if that is just rumor or there is some truth to that.
 

OboeGal

Brilliant_Rock
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Mar 22, 2017
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@OboeGal, I really appreciate your post and I understand your perspective. I have written about my experience on PS before so I won't go into it, anyone who wanted to could find the thread I'm sure.

One thing that I will say is that there needs to be some sort of testing done to identify individuals who are more suceptible to a reaction instead of the current standard which is accepting that a reaction is so rare and taking the chance anyways. Our son was under 5lbs when he was born but they gave him the same amount of vaccine as an 8lb baby. His titres were pulled for his MMR and with just one dose his response was way over what he needed to be considered immune. Had he gotten the second one who is to say how his immune system would react.

Again this is an example of how we need to stop this one size fits all approach when it comes to vaccination. There needs to be reform for there to be trust. The government has granted the vaccine manufacturers full immunity, if their product is safe for all then let them stand behind their product like everyone else, if they are truly safe for all then there is no need for the law in the first place.
Wow - how scary that your son was given that high a dose! That seems almost to be malpractice to me. I mean, when I take a cat or dog to the vet to get a vaccine, or we order their heartworm or flea preventive, their current weight is always checked to make sure that the dose given is appropriate to their weight.

If I'm honest, I struggle with seeing newborn babies getting vaccines. Now, I've never looked into the issue, so there may be a very good reason for it, but it just seems to me that they are so incredibly fragile, and their caregivers know so little about their little bodies and congenital issues they may have just yet, that I have to wonder if there would be less harm to waiting even just a few days or a couple weeks until their bodies have adjusted somewhat to birth and they've processed the "inoculation" of fecal bacteria from mom and received the immune boost from the breast initially and all that. But again - I really know absolutely nothing about it, so I'm totally talking out my rear at this point.

What you're saying here makes sense to me; we are slowly learning more and more about how different individuals handle different doses of different medications, or combos of medications, based on different genetic mutations, differences in methylation, differing levels of various liver enzymes, individual kidney function, etc. I would think that there would be similar issues with vaccines. I also have issues with companies being granted blanket immunity so often.

You honestly, to me, don't sound like someone I would consider an "anti-vaxxer"; you sound like someone who knows that vaccines have a critical role in personal and public health, but also knows firsthand that there are issues around safety that need to be addressed. That doesn't strike me as unreasonable.
 

OboeGal

Brilliant_Rock
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I think IF there is a vaccine, it will become an annual thing. So I'll be getting that and the flu shot every year, and the rest of the family will have to do both as well, to protect me and my DH. I'm sure Canada will take longer to approve a vaccine. I did get the H1N1 vaccine the first year it was available, no side effects. I'll take any amount % of protection. If it's 50%, I'll still get it.
I think you're probably right based on what researchers and medical personnel are seeing at this point that it will have to be annual, or similarly periodized.
 
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