Will the inclusion be noticeable?

[TheGoodHusband]

Hello all!

Year around, I mainly read through the forum without much posting (as I don’t have a ton of knowledge to add to conversations) but I love learning.

Welp, it’s now that time of year for my yearly post.

Every year, I’ve been purchasing my wife a single Diamond. On our 25th anniversary, I will have them put (in order) into a tennis bracelet and surprise her with it. The diamonds are all D color, but range in clarity (with most being around the SI1 to VS2 range). I’m looking at a few options for this year’s Diamond, and one caught my eye. It has a great HSA scores, it looks like it will face up bright white, but there are a few downsides.

1. Table is a 59, which (from what I’ve been told) hurts the “hearts and arrows aesthetic. I know this Diamond is far from a true hearts and arrows, but I’ve been trying to find “poor man’s heart and arrow diamonds” each year, where they look very close.

2. There are some inclusions. And I’m afraid one may be visible to the eye. Now granted, the Diamond is only 0.33 carat and will be set in a tennis bracelet next to other diamonds, but do you feel it will be noticeable?

Any help will be greatly appreciated! I’m definitely not locked into this diamond, so I’m open to criticism as well!

I’ll post a link to it in the comments.

Thanks again, and any input would be greatly appreciated!

 

[TheGoodHusband]

0.33 Carat round diamond

This 0.33 carat round diamond D color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[Lookinagain]

If you think she will examine every stone in the bracelet closely, then perhaps that won't be eye clean. I probably wouldn't notice it but I'm not one who would loupe every stone in a tennis bracelet. I'm more into old cuts so others are probably more help, this looks more eye clean to me and the stats look good. And it's more budget friendly. It has medium flouro and you don't mention that, so it may be an issue for you.

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD18801777?refTab=DIAMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&catalogView=true

this looks good to me too, but again, medium flouro

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD17241581?refTab=DIAMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&catalogView=true

I only looked at a few on Blue Nile so there may be other suitable stones for you, or are you wed to James Allen?

 

[Kim N]

This stone will probably not be eye-clean. While that may not be an issue given that it'll be alongside many other stones, James Allen has enough options that you can probably find a better one for the same price. What do you think of these?

0.32 Carat round diamond

This 0.32 carat round diamond D color vs1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

0.34 Carat round diamond

This 0.34 carat round diamond D color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

0.32 Carat round diamond

This 0.32 carat round diamond D color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

0.34 Carat round diamond

This 0.34 carat round diamond D color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[DejaWiz]

This stone will probably not be eye-clean. While that may not be an issue given that it'll be alongside many other stones, James Allen has enough options that you can probably find a better one for the same price. What do you think of these?

0.32 Carat round diamond

This 0.32 carat round diamond D color vs1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

0.34 Carat round diamond

This 0.34 carat round diamond D color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

0.32 Carat round diamond

This 0.32 carat round diamond D color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

0.34 Carat round diamond

This 0.34 carat round diamond D color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

That 0.32 D VS1 is a gorgeous one...nice find, Kim N!

 

[TheGoodHusband]

First off, thank you all for your thoughtful responses! I do appreciate all of them. I am very sorry I didn't respond. Right after posting this, my lovely 2 year old came down with a horrible bout of RSV/Bronchitis and immediately followed it up with the nasty stomach virus. I will look into each of these! Thank you all so much for the suggestions!

 

[DejaWiz]

First off, thank you all for your thoughtful responses! I do appreciate all of them. I am very sorry I didn't respond. Right after posting this, my lovely 2 year old came down with a horrible bout of RSV/Bronchitis and immediately followed it up with the nasty stomach virus. I will look into each of these! Thank you all so much for the suggestions!

Sorry to hear and hope your little one feels better soon

 

[dmack]

This is so romantic, and I’m the least romantic person ever, so that says a lot. I have so many questions! Does your wife know about this plan or are you squirreling these away in secret? Are you keeping track of which diamond goes with which anniversary so you can put them in order? How on earth does one store 25 small diamonds without losing them (I mean, I’m assuming you’re going to move at least once in 25 years, which is when I’d be paranoid about misplacing something like that. Although this being PS, I’m sure people here have Systems with a capital S)?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hello all!

Year around, I mainly read through the forum without much posting (as I don’t have a ton of knowledge to add to conversations) but I love learning.

Welp, it’s now that time of year for my yearly post.

Every year, I’ve been purchasing my wife a single Diamond. On our 25th anniversary, I will have them put (in order) into a tennis bracelet and surprise her with it. The diamonds are all D color, but range in clarity (with most being around the SI1 to VS2 range). I’m looking at a few options for this year’s Diamond, and one caught my eye. It has a great HSA scores, it looks like it will face up bright white, but there are a few downsides.

1. Table is a 59, which (from what I’ve been told) hurts the “hearts and arrows aesthetic. I know this Diamond is far from a true hearts and arrows, but I’ve been trying to find “poor man’s heart and arrow diamonds” each year, where they look very close.

2. There are some inclusions. And I’m afraid one may be visible to the eye. Now granted, the Diamond is only 0.33 carat and will be set in a tennis bracelet next to other diamonds, but do you feel it will be noticeable?

Any help will be greatly appreciated! I’m definitely not locked into this diamond, so I’m open to criticism as well!

I’ll post a link to it in the comments.

Thanks again, and any input would be greatly appreciated!

Every year, I’ve been purchasing my wife a single Diamond. On our 25th anniversary, I will have them put (in order) into a tennis bracelet and surprise her with it. The diamonds are all D color, but range in clarity (with most being around the SI1 to VS2 range). I’m looking at a few options for this year’s Diamond, and one caught my eye. It has a great HSA scores, it looks like it will face up bright white, but there are a few downsides.

1. Table is a 59, which (from what I’ve been told) hurts the “hearts and arrows aesthetic. The smaller the diamond the more brilliance matters and fire less so. Larger tables assist in increasing brightness and brilliance. Re H&A's, those patterns occur at least until 65%.

2. There are some inclusions. And I’m afraid one may be visible to the eye. Now granted, the Diamond is only 0.33 carat and will be set in a tennis bracelet next to other diamonds, but do you feel it will be noticeable?
The inclusion grading system has many flaws (punny) t the least being that the larger the diamond the large inclusions are from about VVS down. It is unlikely I1 inclusions are visible in many third of a carat diamonds, but VS2 is usually visible in +5ct diamonds.

 

[Rockdiamond]

The inclusion grading system has many flaws (punny) t the least being that the larger the diamond the large inclusions are from about VVS down. It is unlikely I1 inclusions are visible in many third of a carat diamonds, but VS2 is usually visible in +5ct diamonds.

I kind of agree...but I resist speaking in absolutes.
Are there 5ct VS2's that have an imperfection a super sharp-eyed viewer could pick out? Yes. I've seen them myself.
But- does the average 5ct VS2 have an imperfection visible to the naked eye? NO.
Based on my experience, the VS2 diamonds with eye visible imperfections are in the minority.
Flip it with I1 diamonds. I've seen large I1 diamonds that were 100% eye clean.
Most 1ct+ I1's aren't eye clean but again- absolutes don't work here.....imo

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I kind of agree...but I resist speaking in absolutes.
Are there 5ct VS2's that have an imperfection a super sharp-eyed viewer could pick out? Yes. I've seen them myself.
But- does the average 5ct VS2 have an imperfection visible to the naked eye? NO.
Based on my experience, the VS2 diamonds with eye visible imperfections are in the minority.
Flip it with I1 diamonds. I've seen large I1 diamonds that were 100% eye clean.
Most 1ct+ I1's aren't eye clean but again- absolutes don't work here.....imo

I said +5ct - the larger you go the easier VS is to see.
You have never seen an eye visible VS2 or SI1 in a 30 or smaller David. Point accepted please. It is how the grading system works.
Larger stones in I1 eye clean have opens, feathers but are mostly cloudy. Full stop.
They are I 1 because they have an imperfection. GIA have rules and are strictly and well run and abided by

 

[Rockdiamond]

Larger stones in I1 eye clean have opens, feathers but are mostly cloudy. Full stop.

Full stop...ok.
What about an otherwise perfectly clean, no transparency issue diamond, with a single carbon spot large enough to surpass SI2 sized single imperfection in GIA grading.
No opens, no feathers, no transparency issue- other than the single black carbon spot.
Can we agree that the placement of the carbon spot does not determine the grade- only its existence?

You did say "mostly cloudy" which could be taken to mean most of the particular I1 stone is cloudy, or most of the I1 stones are cloudy....

My point is that I1's can and do exist with no transparency/ cloudy issues. Even in larger sizes.
Rare, it's true, but they're out there.

We're in total agreement on smaller stones.....

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Full stop...ok.
What about an otherwise perfectly clean, no transparency issue diamond, with a single carbon spot large enough to surpass SI2 sized single imperfection in GIA grading.
No opens, no feathers, no transparency issue- other than the single black carbon spot.
Can we agree that the placement of the carbon spot does not determine the grade- only its existence?

You did say "mostly cloudy" which could be taken to mean most of the particular I1 stone is cloudy, or most of the I1 stones are cloudy....

My point is that I1's can and do exist with no transparency/ cloudy issues. Even in larger sizes.
Rare, it's true, but they're out there.

We're in total agreement on smaller stones.....

What about an otherwise perfectly clean, no transparency issue diamond, with a single carbon spot large enough to surpass SI2 sized single imperfection in GIA grading. No opens, no feathers, no transparency issue- other than the single black carbon spot.
Can we agree that the placement of the carbon spot does not determine the grade- only its existence?
Wrong David. GIA definitely take inclusion placement into account. In the table vs near the girdle can easily be a grade difference. Near the culet can be 2-3 grades different.

You did say "mostly cloudy" which could be taken to mean most of the particular I1 stone is cloudy, or most of the I1 stones are cloudy....
My point is I1 stones that have no big bad breakage risk etc types of inclusions are ALL cloudy, grainy or badly twinned affecting transparency.
My point is that I1's can and do exist with no transparency/ cloudy issues. Even in larger sizes. Rare, it's true, but they're out there.

We're in total agreement on smaller stones.....

 

[Rockdiamond]

Wrong David. GIA definitely take inclusion placement into account. In the table vs near the girdle can easily be a grade difference. Near the culet can be 2-3 grades different.

When it comes to GIA literature, i can’t say for sure, maybe others can. But my experience- and training- even all those years ago at Winston was to grade based on the presence as opposed to visibility of imperfection(s).

My point is I1 stones that have no big bad breakage risk etc types of inclusions are ALL cloudy, grainy or badly twinned affecting transparency.

It’s possible GIA mentions placement in literature about clarity grading (re:the first point)
But the real world implications are something I have plentiful experience with. I’ve always liked I1 diamonds for value ( and coolness at times) and consequently have been buying them for many years. When the imperfection(s) are of a certain nature and placement, a diamond can be properly graded I1 and zero visual shortcomings or dullness or graining issues.
When it comes to durability issues we really diverge. i1 diamonds rarely exhibit durability issues. Maybe princess, pear or other stones with points, when there a lot going on near a point…..but round I1 diamonds?
I can’t imagine we can find many GIA graded I1 rounds that pose durability risks.

We are speaking of finer points here. I’ve rejected a majority of I1 presented to us…many or even most aren’t desirable- particularly if we’re speaking of colorless or near colorless.

 

[anangel]

Since we’re on the topic of clarity, @Garry H (Cut Nut) did an interesting little poll a while back on a diamond Here is the thread
I thought it was relevant since in the thread Garry mentioned, “All that said, I have seen what appear to me to be very large variations in GIA clarity grades in the SI2 / I1range.” which is a good reminder than the lower we go down in clarity, truly the more the acceptability of the inclusions is needed to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

When it comes to GIA literature, i can’t say for sure, maybe others can. But my experience- and training- even all those years ago at Winston was to grade based on the presence as opposed to visibility of imperfection(s).



It’s possible GIA mentions placement in literature about clarity grading (re:the first point)
But the real world implications are something I have plentiful experience with. I’ve always liked I1 diamonds for value ( and coolness at times) and consequently have been buying them for many years. When the imperfection(s) are of a certain nature and placement, a diamond can be properly graded I1 and zero visual shortcomings or dullness or graining issues.
When it comes to durability issues we really diverge. i1 diamonds rarely exhibit durability issues. Maybe princess, pear or other stones with points, when there a lot going on near a point…..but round I1 diamonds?
I can’t imagine we can find many GIA graded I1 rounds that pose durability risks.

We are speaking of finer points here. I’ve rejected a majority of I1 presented to us…many or even most aren’t desirable- particularly if we’re speaking of colorless or near colorless.

Show us examples rather than rabbit on mate (BTW folks, David and me luv a good barney - we usually learn from them)

 

[Rockdiamond]

David and me luv a good barney - we usually learn from them)

For newer members....
I met Garry when I was but a mere baby in terms of certain knowledge regarding cut.....I was so sure I was right....but after butting heads with Garry- for years- I completely re-evaluated things I had "known" for many years. I learned a lot.
I like to think that the river of knowledge flowed both ways. I consider Garry to be a great friend.
So don't confuse any BS we're tossing at each other as hostility......

 

[Rockdiamond]

Show us examples rather than rabbit on mate

The first one I found- zero transparency issues.
I1 graded due to multiple crystals.....which are the little specs visible in the picture. If there were a few less, it would have graded SI2. A few less, SI1, etc. Where they are is irrelevant. Their visibility is irrelevant ( to the grading)
The crystals themselves block such a small amount of light (percentage wise) from passing through the diamond that there's an effective ZERO loss of transparency.
Do you see any potential durability issues???

 

[Rockdiamond]

Dossier on this I1- hence, no plot. The sole imperfection listed is "Twining wisps"
The stone is bright- no transparency issues- and even as a Marquise- there are ZERO durability issues related to the clarity grading.

 

[Rockdiamond]

When you see an I1 with all kinds of $hit going on inside- a lot of stuff!! That might be a great I1.
The grade is based on all the stuff in the stone.
The fact that there's a lot of stuff, and it still "only" got I1 ( remember, there are plenty of more imperfect grades I2, etc)..that's a good thing! My point is that the grade is cumulative- add up all the little things, and get to I1. Yet each of the imperfections themselves might be VS- or even VVS sized.
Many smaller imperfections might not be visible and might not affect transparency. Garry's warnings are important because these things might cause either transparency or durability issues.

 

[Karl_K]

David, your the king of odd ball diamonds so no surprise that you found exceptions but when it comes to the overall market I side with Garry more on this issue.
There are a lot of si2 and i1 diamonds out there with issues.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Karl, Karl, Karl.
At no point did I encourage folks to go out and buy I1 diamonds unassisted.

There are a lot of si2 and i1 diamonds out there with issues.

There are a lot of VS diamonds out there with issues too
In most cases, consumers are well served by working with vendors who can vet the stones.
If we are to trust the "typical" diamond salesman, we need to all buy F/VS1+.
I got tired of hearing folks who'd ask for a 2ct diamond being told by a sales person they had to spend $50k- "You don't want anything less than F/VS"
When the consumer might ask "What about J color?
No one wants those!!!
Same for SI goods.
It's deceptive for sales people to steer consumers to the most costly grades every time.

But- I will note again- the majority of I1 diamonds are to be avoided......but by no means all.

 

[max1111]

But- does the average 5ct VS2 have an imperfection visible to the naked eye? NO.
Based on my experience, the VS2 diamonds with eye visible imperfections are in the minority.

What's the average age for someone in the market for a 5ct stone? I would guess quite a lot of people under 40 would pick out most VS2 inclusions pretty quickly

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Great stuff David. Me Mate! (Said in Strine)
Firstly, for the colored diamonds, the dulling is possibly even an advantage.
Masses of inclusions like those will 100% dull the diamond by at least 10%.
You would need two identical proportioned round diamonds - one like those and one with zip to do a side by side comparison, and I bet ya $5 bucks that an experienced eye like you would see the difference!

 

[Rockdiamond]

What's the average age for someone in the market for a 5ct stone? I would guess quite a lot of people under 40 would pick out most VS2 inclusions pretty quickly

BINGO!!! to the bold part. The term eye clean is fairly subjective- although it's not tossed around that way.
There are plenty of imperfections I could have picked out naked eye 20 years ago, that I'd need a loupe to find today.

The underlined part....not so much. It's a generalization.
And, based on my experience, even 20 years ago- not really accurate.
My experience is that VS2 large stones with an imperfection that is potentially visible to the naked eye are far less common than VS2 stones which are truly free of imperfections visible to the eye.
Remember my statement about the cumulative nature of the grades?
Say it's a 5ct diamond with 3 VVS2 sized imperfections? Such a stone would likely be graded VS2, and would be completely eye clean. Objectively.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Thanks Garry!

Firstly, for the colored diamonds, the dulling is possibly even an advantage.

I get your point about transparency and Fancy Colored Diamonds. I don't necessarily agree....but I get it. That part depends on so many factors- especially the color.
Off the top of my head, and where I agree- Browns- oranges- some pinks actually benefit from lack of transparency.
But lack of transparency kills yellows- or a stone like the green one IMO.
The marquise is an I color. Those twining wisps don't affect the stone's brilliance or transparency perceptibly.
BUT you said two identical rounds- which we ain't gonna find- but I'll keep looking.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I have a lot on too, but this stone faces up a bit like your marquise David - may be a bit worsa - but has serious dulling and is GIA I1. It would face up eye clean from 15 inches.

Video

d1s5m21q2l18ke.cloudfront.net

 

[nojs]

I’d say anything under 0.5 ct you would need a large black carbon inclusion for the diamond to not be eye clean. The only exception would be a totally cloudy appearance, which would be easy to spot. I have 20-20 vision. Folks this is 0.33 ct. The inclusion will be tiny. No one is going to notice it sitting next to all the other diamonds. The JA videos are magnified to a great extent.