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Why would she want a lesser diamond?

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chefmb

Rough_Rock
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Apr 4, 2008
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We have been hunting for a while and have seen many diamonds. After all the beautiful diamonds we have seen, she would like the one below which does much worse on the HCA than many of the others we have seen. Am I being too dependent on the HCA or should I just go with the diamond that she likes? Any help and thoughts on the below diamond is much appreciated.

Michael

PS. It is also supposed to be H&A

Weight 1.21 ct.
Shape ROUND BRILLIANT
Color G
Clarity VS2
Measurements 6.66 - 6.62 x 4.2 mm
Depth 63.3
Table 59.0
Crown 14.9
Pavilion 42.3
Girdle THIN TO SL. THICK FACETED
Polish VERY GOOD
Symmetry VERY GOOD
Fluorescence NONE
Culet NONE
Cut Grade IDEAL
 
Hi chefmb
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Does this diamond have an EGL, IGI, GIA or AGS grading report?
 
Sorry......EGL USA report
 
Thanks! Using your figures, I can't get the HCA to take them, can you recheck please? Even so as you know, this diamond isn't the best cut diamond you can find, and if the proportions are correct, the HCA says the girdle is overly thick - this diamond appears to be facing up small for it's weight. Ideal Cut labels can be used loosely and don't guarantee you a well cut stone.

Of course, nothing trumps your own eyes, but also it can be dependant on taste and the cut quality of the other diamonds you have seen together as you say you have seen many. My advice would be to ask her what she particularly likes about this diamond, be it the size, arrow pattern, colour or lack of, the way it sparkles with the larger table etc, try to narrow it down so you know what is appealing to her, then once you know, look at some AGS0 and GIA Excellent cut grade diamonds which may fit the bill and have perhaps the personality or look she likes - but better cut. If she is absolutely insistant that this is HER stone, then that is what matters most, but see if you can convince her to look at some others and quiz her a bit about why she likes this stone before pulling the trigger. After all, you both have the opportunity to get a beautifully cut diamond, if you and she decide this is the one then fine, but at least you can make an informed decision.

Have you considered buying online? Also because a diamond is touted as hearts and arrows doesn't necessarily mean it is a true example of this cutting style, read this link for more info.

https://www.pricescope.com/hearts_indx.asp
 
Date: 5/4/2008 10:57:11 AM
Author:chefmb
We have been hunting for a while and have seen many diamonds. After all the beautiful diamonds we have seen, she would like the one below which does much worse on the HCA than many of the others we have seen. Am I being too dependent on the HCA or should I just go with the diamond that she likes? Any help and thoughts on the below diamond is much appreciated.

Michael

PS. It is also supposed to be H&A

Weight 1.21 ct.
Shape ROUND BRILLIANT
Color G
Clarity VS2
Measurements 6.66 - 6.62 x 4.2 mm
Depth 63.3
Table 59.0
Crown 14.9
Pavilion 42.3
Girdle THIN TO SL. THICK FACETED
Polish VERY GOOD
Symmetry VERY GOOD
Fluorescence NONE
Culet NONE
Cut Grade IDEAL
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Just curious, WHO exactly, did the grading on this stone? GIA doesn't grade "Ideal" and that stone would absolutely not get an AGS "Ideal"....so...?

ETA - LOL! Someone beat me to it. Imagine that! Folks is FAST around here!
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Did you two see these stones in person? If you looked and them in person and she thinks it looks the best, I''d say her eyes trump any HCA score.
 
Lorelei: the figures come off of the online EGL cert. I believe the crown has to be changed to % for it to be accepted by HCA

Karen: it a EGL USA cert

Gwendolyn: we''ve looked at them side by side and she just likes it...unfortunately I don''t but I guess i don''t have to wear it. I can''t really get a good explination why it appeals to her.


Thanks so much for the fast responses.

Michael
 
Date: 5/4/2008 11:19:06 AM
Author: chefmb
Lorelei: the figures come off of the online EGL cert. I believe the crown has to be changed to % for it to be accepted by HCA

Karen: it a EGL USA cert

Gwendolyn: we''ve looked at them side by side and she just likes it...unfortunately I don''t but I guess i don''t have to wear it. I can''t really get a good explination why it appeals to her.


Thanks so much for the fast responses.

Michael
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I did that already and still nothing. I fiddled around with the scores, reducing the depth to 63.1% made it work...Am I using the right depth at 63.3?
 
Hmmm.....I just put in the #''s as below and they came up with a 4.8 on HCA

Depth% 63.3

Table % 59

Crown % 14.9

Pavillion angle 42.3
 
Lorelei, I''m sure you know better than I do, would those numbers make give it more fire or more white light? I''m wondering if she''s responding to one or the other. I know I respond to fire more than white.... Any ideas?
 
Is the size or colour very different from this one compared to the others you looked at? She may be colour sensitive, if this one's a better colour, or if this one's bigger, maybe she just wants a more honkin' ring?
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Date: 5/4/2008 11:26:42 AM
Author: chefmb
Hmmm.....I just put in the #'s as below and they came up with a 4.8 on HCA

Depth% 63.3

Table % 59

Crown % 14.9

Pavillion angle 42.3
Click to expand...
Ok I see now, it is best to use all % or all angles to the best of my knowledge and not mix the 2, otherwise you don't get an accurate result as far as I am aware, I see Ellen is about so she can confirm or deny possibly!
 
They are all comprable in size and color....VS2 G

Karen had a good point....the diamond I feel is very very white....and she has stated that "it looks so clear"

Though it will always be mind clear for her I just think it won''t be for me.....should I just get over it?
 
Also the HCA shouldn't be used for selecting diamonds but from letting you know which ones may be worthy of further evaluation ( 2 and below score) and those which may be not ( although not in all cases). It cannot physically see the diamond and it really should be used to reject the poorer performers rather like a pass or fail. It seems you can use mixed data for the HCA, but angles for both are far preferable.

I think you need to speak to her again and see what she wants to do. If she has her heart set on this one, then see if you can take it outside away from the store lights to see how it will look in more real life conditions, to see if it still appeals to her. It does appear that this stone may be facing up a bit small for it's weight, more like a 1.10 ct going by the chart ( give or take), so that could also be a consideration.

Karen, it sounds as if she is reacting more to brilliance / white light depending on the lighting conditions she viewed the diamond in, as she said " it looks so clear" and possibly clarity, but it depends on what she is basing these thoughts on as to the other diamonds she has looked at.
 
I agree with gwendolyn...if this is the stone that her eyes are telling her that she loves, then I would go with that.
What is it that you do not like about it?
 
When you looked at the stones, did you view them under different lighting conditions, or just the store lights? If she saw them in various types of lighting and still prefers that one hands-down, I think you should go with that one, unless you really hate the stone (as opposed to just being confused as to why she likes it).

Would you be able to order in other stones that have good white light return like that one and see if she still prefers it to other stones that you would prefer?
 
I guess what I don''t like about it is that it just doesn''t have the brilliance that I would like to see. I guess the whole HCA # is weighing on me and I don''t know if I should let it. I guess HCA is no subsitution for the naked eye but I always have that 4.8 HCA score sitting in the back of my mind when I look at it.

Can this diamond also be an H&A as she likes that fact also?
 
Date: 5/4/2008 11:55:04 AM
Author: chefmb
I guess what I don''t like about it is that it just doesn''t have the brilliance that I would like to see. I guess the whole HCA # is weighing on me and I don''t know if I should let it. I guess HCA is no subsitution for the naked eye but I always have that 4.8 HCA score sitting in the back of my mind when I look at it.


Can this diamond also be an H&A as she likes that fact also?
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Is it truly a 4.8 on the HCA if you aren''t sure the numbers are giving accurate results, since the percents and angles are mixed? You might be fixating on a factor that isn''t even there (and that still only comes in second to what your eyes tell you). If you ignore the numbers, is it a beautiful stone? Was it really less brilliant than the others? (I''m asking, not being snarky.) Or do you think the HCA score made you prejudiced against it?
 
I am wondering what kind of cut the other stones were that she was comparing this with. Do you see any truly ideal cut diamonds, that would display a nice balance of white light and fire?
 
Date: 5/4/2008 12:00:17 PM
Author: Ellen
I am wondering what kind of cut the other stones were that she was comparing this with. Do you see any truly ideal cut diamonds, that would display a nice balance of white light and fire?
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I thought he said all the stones were comparable..?

ETA: Oh, that was only for size and colour. Sorry!
 
Date: 5/4/2008 11:55:04 AM
Author: chefmb
I guess what I don't like about it is that it just doesn't have the brilliance that I would like to see. I guess the whole HCA # is weighing on me and I don't know if I should let it. I guess HCA is no subsitution for the naked eye but I always have that 4.8 HCA score sitting in the back of my mind when I look at it.

Can this diamond also be an H&A as she likes that fact also?
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The HCA IS no substitute for your own eyes, but it seems the fact is that you could get a better cut diamond certainly. Now, the thing is, if she loves this one then it definitely is worth considering, but it would be better if you could find one you both love. As far as I can see, this diamond is a bit deep at 63.3% and as a result it seems to be facing up a bit small. The table is a little bigger than we often see here, but that isn't so much of a huge deal really. The HCA doesn't rate this diamond apparently, but as it cannot see the stone, then really all it is doing is estimating how a set of proportions is likely to work together - nothing trumps your own eyes.

The HCA was really intended to help buyers weed out the lesser performing diamonds which are on the virtual listings, when it was first created by all accounts. Some of these diamonds are an unknown quantity as they are owned by suppliers rather than vendors and the only info available was a few numbers. So in order to avoid wasting time calling diamonds back and forth which may not be well cut, the HCA can estimate which diamonds are less likely to perform well ( score over 2) and those which may be worthy of calling in and evaluating further ( score 2 and below).

As to the H&A question, I added a link in one of my last posts http://www.pricescope.com/hearts_indx.asp - even though a diamond is advertised as a hearts and arrows stone, and displays an arrow pattern, does not make it a true hearts and arrows diamond. Read that thread for more, if you and she are happy with a diamond which is touted to be H&A, has an arrow pattern, but in actuality may not reach the strict standards a true H&A has to meet, then that again is your decision.
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The numbers are from the online EGL cert which can be seen at http://www.eglusa.com/customerlogin.html

The cert # is 86177304D

I think the HCA score and the depth of the stone really made me prejudiced against it. In reality I would probably not even thought anything bad about the stone if it had not been for all the research I have done on this site and the HCA score. I also just don''t like the Icy white color of it........but again, I''m not the one who will be wearing it so maybe I should just get over it.

In the end I just want the best for her.
 
Date: 5/4/2008 12:08:33 PM
Author: chefmb
I think the HCA score and the depth of the stone really made me prejudiced against it. In reality I would probably not even thought anything bad about the stone if it had not been for all the research I have done on this site and the HCA score. I also just don't like the Icy white color of it........but again, I'm not the one who will be wearing it so maybe I should just get over it.


In the end I just want the best for her.
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Hmmm, if the icy white colour is what you don't like about it, and if (if!) the icy white colour is what she DOES like about it, it sounds like you two might never agree on a stone.

Have you had a conversation about this, saying what you would like in a stone and finding out what is important to you? If you were to keep searching to find the perfect stone for both of you, it sounds like you have to find the factors that are most important to you and see if there's room to compromise. If not, then it sounds like she will be over the moon with this particular stone (sounds like she already is), so maybe don't make your life any harder than it has to be...?
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I dunno, maybe that's bad advice and you shouldn't listen to me. But in the end, it's the stone you wear, not the cert or the HCA number.
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Gwendolyn,

All your advice has been great. I guess I am just making my life difficult. It''s a clean Icy stone and there really are no major flaws with it and it''s what she likes. Though, it''s not my first choice it is hers and I will respect that. I''ll show her a few alternatives when we go to purchase it and if she decides it is the stone for her then so be it. I''ll buy it and be happy about it. It will be set in a beautiful custom setting made by a friend of mine with thirty six 2-3 point diamonds. I''ll be sure to post pics.

Thanks again for all the help.

Regards,

Michael
 
Date: 5/4/2008 1:03:40 PM
Author: chefmb
Gwendolyn,


All your advice has been great. I guess I am just making my life difficult. It''s a clean Icy stone and there really are no major flaws with it and it''s what she likes. Though, it''s not my first choice it is hers and I will respect that. I''ll show her a few alternatives when we go to purchase it and if she decides it is the stone for her then so be it. I''ll buy it and be happy about it. It will be set in a beautiful custom setting made by a friend of mine with thirty six 2-3 point diamonds. I''ll be sure to post pics.


Thanks again for all the help.


Regards,


Michael
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Oh wow, a friend of yours has designed the setting for it?! That''s wonderful, sounds like it will be both beautiful and sentimental on a few levels!
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I can understand not wanting to feel like you are settling for less than the best, especially after you have put so much work into researching diamonds for this purchase! I am the exact same way. Maybe when you look at the stones again, you could ask the sales associate not to tell you which ones are which, and just pick the stone out with your eyes? Then the numbers won''t have a chance to get in the way, and you can see the stones for what they are--beautifully sparkly balls of light! (Besides, you will already know that they will be excellent quality stones if you call ahead and ask for stones of a certain range in addition to the one your lady already loves, yes? Seems like a win-win to me!)
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hi chefmb - i am no expert and cannot give you an informed opinion on the numbers. rather, i wanted to chime in with one thought i had as i read your post FWIW.....

could it be possible your GF is anxious and excited about the proposal, getting engaged, and having a beautiful diamond ring *now*? i ask because one thing to consider is that sometimes when you don''t yet have the knowledge yourself, and haven''t yet spent a decent amount of time here on PS or elsewhere really learning and comparing and ''seeing'' many diamonds, almost anything looks good! especially if you are anxious and excited to get engaged and have a beautiful ring on your hand and you have only compared it to a few diamonds (which as ellen suggested could be subpar themselves so by comparison may have made her choice appear spectacular).

however when the dust settles, so to speak, one can find themselves realizing they could have easily had something more beautiful.... if your GF were to spend more time here she might slowly gain a new understanding and appreciation for diamonds that could leave her disappointed she wasn''t more choosy when she had the chance. you seem to sense the writing on the wall... that this diamond leaves something to be desired. i would hate for your GF to realize later down the road that she regrets her haste and that there were prettier diamonds to be had out there. it would be all the more disappointing considering you have done your homework and had she maybe heeded your knowledge, she could have had something that really made her heart sing indefinitely. i got my diamond long before pricescope and always suspected it was not the most spectacular there was, but lacked the knowledge to understand if that was indeed the case and why. now i know, and it bugs me (but the sentimental alone is enough to make me continue to love what my DH gave with his heart). i would love to be in her shoes and able to apply what i now know about diamond characteristics to pick something amazing... i would hate to see her potentially waste such an opportunity while you stood by and watched it happen with a heavy heart!

it is easy to say get her what she wants. however, it may be possible she doesn''t yet know that she doesn''t yet know (
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) what she wants. more time, more comparisons, more knowledge could result in a confident decision for both of you that leaves no room for regrets or disappointment.

my long-winded two cents.
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LOL................my GF might be anxious and excited but my wife of 10 yrs is probably more excited and maybe not so anxious. Shhh...don''t tell her.


Just Kidding.....point taken

Michael
 
I really would explain to her that you are paying for a 1.2 ct. stone that is appearing more like a 1.10 ct. stone. Technically, you''re just paying for weight in the depth and the diamond looks like a smaller stone. I would strongly encourage you to get a better cut stone. She will love a well cut one even more than she thinks she loves this one!!!
 
Date: 5/4/2008 6:00:34 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I really would explain to her that you are paying for a 1.2 ct. stone that is appearing more like a 1.10 ct. stone. Technically, you''re just paying for weight in the depth and the diamond looks like a smaller stone. I would strongly encourage you to get a better cut stone. She will love a well cut one even more than she thinks she loves this one!!!
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Totally agree.

If she''s looking at okay diamonds labeled as "ideal," maybe what she is looking at is in the top range of okay. Show her some truly ideal stones. Show her some videos on GOG... even their videos are going to blow away a "nice" stone IRL.
 
Great post rainy, you elaborated quite eloquently the point I was raising.
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