Why doesn't GOG give out certs on stones?

[ElleElle]

Unless you are going to purchase it? All the other online vendors show the cert with every stone available on their websites.
Has anyone else experienced this with GOG? Do you know why?

 

[Gypsy]

If you call and ask to Jon, I'm sure he can accommodate you.

 

[NYCSpoonman]

It's because GoG puts their diamonds through what amounts to like an NFL combine for Diamonds. All of the "unknown" that you'd have about buying a diamond online they take out of that process by inspecting the diamond more than anyone else. So if they do that and give you the GIA number you'll just say "cool thanks for putting the diamond through every test imaginable but I think I'll pass" They'll then have to put that diamond back into a distributors inventory which everyone pretty much has access to. Then you just go and ask some other vendor to look up that GIA number and buy it from them instead b/c that other vendor sure as heck will undercut the price by a few hundred bucks and you know the diamond is awesome b/c you already saw it put through all of the tests. So they do all the work and don't get the sale.

 

[ElleElle]

It's because GoG puts their diamonds through what amounts to like an NFL combine for Diamonds. All of the "unknown" that you'd have about buying a diamond online they take out of that process by inspecting the diamond more than anyone else. So if they do that and give you the GIA number you'll just say "cool thanks for putting the diamond through every test imaginable but I think I'll pass" They'll then have to put that diamond back into a distributors inventory which everyone pretty much has access to. Then you just go and ask some other vendor to look up that GIA number and buy it from them instead b/c that other vendor sure as heck will undercut the price by a few hundred bucks and you know the diamond is awesome b/c you already saw it put through all of the tests. So they do all the work and don't get the sale.

Thanks for your reply. This makes a lot of sense!

 

[kenny]

By "give out" GIA certs I assume you mean the reports are clickable to view.

I just spend 2 or 3 minutes surfing around GOG and all the diamonds that were in house had AGS or GIA icons you could click on to see the report.
All of the diamonds that were not in house had no link to a grading report … some had a "GIA Facetware thingie".

I have no idea if this is GOG's policy or just a coincidence.
I'm just reporting what I see.

Now it's almost 1 AM in his time zone, but I'll email Jonathan and alert him to this thread.
Perhaps he'll post.

 

[lioness]

I just clicked on links to diamonds on the site, specifically avoiding AVRs and AVCs, and there were GIA or AGS reports available for viewing for almost every stone, the exceptions being some of the OMCs and OECs

 

[MarionC]

Here is a new thread where the OP said GOG would not give a report unless she bought the stone???

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-an-ags-3-ideal-stone-good.200926/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-an-ags-3-ideal-stone-good.200926/[/URL]

There is a diamond that is NOT in house at GOG that I am interested in. But if I call GOG and they tell me I have to buy the stone to see the report??? Sounds a bit extreme. I guess what will happen, at least, is that they will want to call the stone in for me - then it can only be bought from them.
SO, if this is true, it's a way of controlling things and certainly narrows the consumer's ability to do their homework independent of one vendor.
It will be interesting to get Jon's response.

 

[TC1987]

Most of their listings of cushions that are not in house do include at least the GIA or AGS report number. There might be just a few stones that don't list a report number. Here's one: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10291/ Can't they provide a report number? I've bought from GOG but I only buy in-house stones, precisely because so much information is provided.

Since these are not in-house stones, maybe they are listed on James Allen or some other site that has more information?

eta to respond to the post, above: As I recall, GOG has been stung in the past by people who had them call in a "virtual" stone and do a full GOG workup on it, only to have the person who inquired go to another vendor who'd sell it for a few bucks less. I believe they might have instituted a policy where they charge for that service now, so that they don't spend their time and resources on a customer who is merely showrooming. I may not be recalling that correctly, though.

 

[artdecolover71]

I know when I asked them to find me the EC, I paid $100 fee which was credited towards my purchase after stone selection.

 

[Karl_K]

When a stone is on memo(loan to a jeweler) they do not give the report to the dealer usually(I suspect almost always these days).
Some of them will give a copy of the report for internal use but will not allow it to be posted in public others allow it to be posted in public.
They want it private because the cutter/wholesaler offer the stone to different dealers at different prices and the public selling price of one dealer may be lower than the dealer price for another dealer.
That puts the dealer in a catch 22, offer stones without being able to show reports or spend a ton more capital on stock and offer a much smaller selection.

Of course the end buyer should always get an original report when it is bought as it is part of the deal.

edited for clarity.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am sure NYCSpoonman is correct. I find it terrible that people would use GOG to run the test and then use a drop shipper to buy the stone.

But I can assure you they will provide the report for any stone you buy! I find their testing to be so much more informative that I probably bought my asscher without even seeing the GIA report in advance!

 

[ElleElle]

I am sure NYCSpoonman is correct. I find it terrible that people would use GOG to run the test and then use a drop shipper to buy the stone.

But I can assure you they will provide the report for any stone you buy! I find their testing to be so much more informative that I probably bought my asscher without even seeing the GIA report in advance!

Thanks for all the replies! I am feeling a lot better after understanding why GOG waits to release the cert. GOG has been extremely informative and attentive to my needs and I am very happy I went with them to source my stone!

 

[Rhino]

It's because GoG puts their diamonds through what amounts to like an NFL combine for Diamonds. All of the "unknown" that you'd have about buying a diamond online they take out of that process by inspecting the diamond more than anyone else. So if they do that and give you the GIA number you'll just say "cool thanks for putting the diamond through every test imaginable but I think I'll pass" They'll then have to put that diamond back into a distributors inventory which everyone pretty much has access to. Then you just go and ask some other vendor to look up that GIA number and buy it from them instead b/c that other vendor sure as heck will undercut the price by a few hundred bucks and you know the diamond is awesome b/c you already saw it put through all of the tests. So they do all the work and don't get the sale.

This ^

NYCSpoon summed it up well.

When we are helping clients we can serve them in one of two manners.

1. Show them GIA Reports and whatever imagery that is provided by the manufacturer (the least expensive way to purchase online) or for a little bit more ...

2. Our clients leave a deposit to cover round trip shipping on 1 diamond. We in turn invest 3-10x that amount transporting a selection of diamonds to our lab, photographing them, scanning, video editing & publishing etc. as well as providing them with our gemological guidance (pictures do not tell everything and there can be gemological problems even with seemingly perfect ASET's etc.). After we have invested that capital as well as man hours serving a client we're not going to release information our competitors will hang us with who do not make these investments in their clients.

The easiest sales method for us would be #1 above. Quick, clean and the least expensive. The 2nd method seemingly costs more because of the sheer reality of shipping charges and time invested but when presented with the choice virtually everyone we talk to, when given these options chooses the latter.

A gentleman who participates on this forum and is quite "possibly" a genius wrote this summary a short while back that pertains to this very issue and gives valuable insight to various business models presented on the web.

"I think this statement may be useful in addressing the thread's original post.

Written by GeorgeStevens » 17 Jan 2014 19:36:
Everything in the diamond business is negotiable at the retail level. Diamonds are a commodity. Hundreds of millions of carats a year are mined and sold at market prices just like spuds and carrots. There is a well-agreed market price; you just don't know it.
Without the diamond in-hand I would not be able to agree on its market price.

For example: What's "market price" for a 1.00 H SI1 EX non-fluor? As of today there are 140 listed in the most popular online wholesale marketplace. Speaking in %, the highest priced gem is offered at $100 and the lowest at $35, with the others running all-between. That's a 285% span in market price between diamonds which are all graded 1.00 H SI1 Ideal NF.

If we select only those graded by GIA 86 remain. Each is 1.00 H SI1 GIA EX NF, yet they range from $100 to $69. That is a 45% difference in market price, low to high. One company has several of these "identical-on-paper" diamonds, offered at notably different prices. We can move up from H SI1, but the disparities remain. There are 32 available 1.00 D VVS1 GIA EX NF ranging from $100 to $74, or a 35% difference in market-price for so-called identical diamonds. And this is wholesale. We're not to retail yet.

This is why I disagree with the commoditization concept. Diamond grading systems don't promote equivalence as the AMS or USDA do. I'm pretty sure distributors moving AMS-certified "U.S. No. 1" grade potatoes don't charge $1.00/pound for a truckload, then $1.25/pound or $1.35/pound for the next truckloads rolling out of the barn.

Lack of (1) standardization and (2) complete information prevent equivalency. At present the market value of a given diamond goes beyond the ABCs of any grading report. Resultantly, a premium is justifiable if one can demonstrate why diamond-A should be valued higher than diamond-B, even if they are identical on paper.

The sticker price is anywhere from 25% to 400% of the market price. Even a company that just lists other companies' diamonds puts on at least a 25% mark-up - so that's 25% you can try to haggle off and they still make money and are happy.

Distracts addressed this nicely in the post above. Vertical integration, globalization, price-competition and the internet have changed margins dramatically.

Here's a story... (popcorn and movie time)

Seller Charlie runs a careful store. He's made his name on quality and stands behind what he sells with beneficial programs such as upgrade, etc. One day he buys a 1.00 G VS2 GIA EX NF for 95. He searched thoroughly and feels it's one of the best on the market. He has it shipped in and runs it through a battery of tests. It's solid G, close to F. An enclosed white crystal sets the clarity grade. Modern Tolk proportions. Top optical precision. No internal strain. No extra facets. Beautiful. An assistant takes magnified pics, ideal-scope, ASET, maybe hearts, maybe a glamour shot. Possibly a video. Another assistant processes the images and posts them to the store website. A detailed description is written. Charlie takes 95, calculates the needed few percent to cover salaries, another few for SEO + advertising, a hundred for shipping and 10% as profit. The diamond is offered for 111. A client sees it and discusses it with Charlie via email and phone.

Seller Baker lists diamonds on a feed from suppliers but doesn't bring any onsite. He is contacted by the same client, wanting to know if Baker can beat Charlie's 111. Baker goes to the online market and finds three 1.00 G VS2 GIA EX NF stones offered for 78, 80 and 83. The first is mis-graded; it should have been H (the wholesaler knows this, thus the price). The second is a deep EX, 6.40mm and leaking light (thus the price). The third has a small open feather, but serious internal strain where the feather meets the girdle (which Baker will never know about). Baker calculates the needed few percent for SEO + advertising and another 20% as profit. He doesn't have to cover multiple shipments (since he drop-ships). He doesn't have to spend time doing inspection, hiring photos done or posting data to a web-page. In the end Baker offers the three 1.00 G VS2 GIA EX NFs to the client for 103, 105 and 108.

The client says "Wow, whichever I choose beats Charlie's 111... This guy is clearly offering better deals!"

~ What just happened?

Charlie offered a diamond which was meticulously selected, brought in-store, inspected and put through paces far beyond its paper.
He ensured "G VS2 EX" were bulletproof and looked at factors far beyond the paper to ensure a rich pedigree.
He added 10% profit after his bills and people were paid.

Baker offered three diamonds with reduced cost at wholesale because of issues beyond the letter grades.
He never saw them. He took no time to inspect, photo or ensure accurate grading, much less going beyond the grades.
He added more profit at 20% and still came in under Charlie's price.

The bulletproof G VS2 EX cost Charlie 95...offered at 111 (upcharge of 16)
The mis-graded "G"(H) VS2 EX cost Baker 78...offered at 103 (upcharge of 25)

In trade-terms Charlie's diamond represents the better value, and the better deal. But the client doesn't get that.

The irony? Charlie may try to save the sale by giving a couple of hundred off, cutting into his smaller margin. Yet he can never match Baker's ability to discount...and in the end Baker still makes more.

I see this stuff happening in showrooms too. It goes even farther off the rails when consumers are convinced to "believe" in grading reports from notoriously soft labs.

I know the free market rules - caveat emptor - but the lack of standardization and information in the trade, wholesale and retail, makes research and study invaluable. The diligent consumer is the winner. In that sense the internet, and forums like this one, can be terrific resources.

Hope that helps. If you have any other questions I'm happy to answer.

Kind regards,
Rhino

 

[Rhino]

I am sure NYCSpoonman is correct. I find it terrible that people would use GOG to run the test and then use a drop shipper to buy the stone.

But I can assure you they will provide the report for any stone you buy! I find their testing to be so much more informative that I probably bought my asscher without even seeing the GIA report in advance!

Thanks for all the replies! I am feeling a lot better after understanding why GOG waits to release the cert. GOG has been extremely informative and attentive to my needs and I am very happy I went with them to source my stone!

Thanks Elle. I know Charles is serving you but if you did have any questions for me personally you are of course welcome to ask. Just address it in the email to him and he'll forward to me. I believe I was the one who shot your vid. That was certainly an interesting comparison.

Kindest regards,
Jonathan

 

[heididdl]

Loved the charlie baker scenario and it just validates the need for this community and the fact that there are honest trusted vendors here.