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Why can this sapphire be called Padparadscha?

Discussion in 'Colored Stones' started by henrietta, May 7, 2010.

  1. henrietta
    Rough_Rock

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    by henrietta » May 7, 2010
    Can you considered it to be a pad?
    It''s a purplish red sapphire with obvious orange hue, but has medium to high saturation. Is it said that a pad must be with low to medium saturation? That means a color between pink and orange?
    Although I guess it may also be from Celyon.
    What do you think of that?

    1asdfrter.JPG
     
  2. henrietta
    Rough_Rock

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  3. henrietta
    Rough_Rock

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  4. chrono
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by chrono » May 7, 2010
    The sapphire in your picture has too much purple and red, not enough orange and pink. Yes, a padparadscha can only have a combination of orange and pink, in addition to several other conditions. Is the cert in the last picture of another stone? The description clearly states that it is orange + pink and called it a padparadscha. A stone does not have to be from Sri Lanka in order to be considered a padparadscha either.
     
  5. henrietta
    Rough_Rock

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    by henrietta » May 7, 2010
    I believe the stone is just the one on the cert. These photos were taken by a gem lover who went to a reputable gem vendor from Celyon.
    You can see the obvious orange hue in the second pic. So I think in certain strong light, it can appear like the way in the cert pic, which itself looks much vivid and darker than normal pad we believe. It's strange isn't it?
    What's more , the person who went there said that stones which are lighter than this one,(I think maybe just like what we believe to be a pad) are more common and cheaper.
     
  6. chrono
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by chrono » May 7, 2010
    Have you measured the stone to make sure the size matches up? I am afraid all I see is brown in the second picture, not orange. I also don’t see any pink at all. My concern is that the stone does not match up to the cert.
     
  7. henrietta
    Rough_Rock

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    by henrietta » May 7, 2010
    I havn't seen the stone with my own eye[​IMG] ,just got the information. Someone is maybe considering buying this stone.
    But the pic on the cert is also a vivid one, which is darker than the orangish-pink we hope,isn't it? And it has something in common with the second pic as I see.
     
  8. chrono
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by chrono » May 7, 2010
    Vivid and darker are 2 different things. On my monitor, the stone in the cert is vivid, but the stone in the picture is darker (and purpler and browner). I’d love to own the stone in the cert but not the stone in the pictures. If the person is interested in the stone, he/she will need to view it under various conditions and I would highly recommend bringing it to an appraiser to make sure the stone is indeed the one in the cert.
     
  9. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » May 7, 2010
    I'm concerned that's not the stone in the cert. It's too brown and dark to be padparadscha.

    I don't know how old that cert is, or how true to life the photo is on it, but you can't be vivid and be a padparadscha. Padparadscha's are pastel in color, as deemed by a consortium of gemological labs.

    Your stone looks like a medium dark toned browish red stone. It's not very attractive to me, but I'm giving you my honest opinion. Don't fall for marketing names either, buy what it beautiful, not what is deemed this or that.
     
  10. chrono
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by chrono » May 7, 2010
    TL,
    The date on the cert says April 3, 2010, which is a month old.
     
  11. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » May 7, 2010
    Well either your photos are terribly off, but I cannot believe that's the same stone on the certificate unless GRS has significantly low standards on what a padparadscha is.

    Padparadscha is one of the most difficult stones to buy, and I would not buy one without the help of a person that is expert in that material.

    Honestly, I could buy spinel that is identical to that color for less than $100. I don't know what those roundish inclusions are in the first photo, but those look like spinel inclusions. I also have my doubts it's even corundum.
     
  12. chrono
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by chrono » May 7, 2010
    I agree with the highlighted statement. My first impression based on the colour and inclusions was that it was a spinel, not corundum. My concern is also that the stone being sold is not the same stone as the one in the cert.
     
  13. henrietta
    Rough_Rock

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    by henrietta » May 7, 2010
    Thank you for all the opinions.
    The photo is surely not well-taken,as the people said himself.
    Anyway, I feel that the stone GRS considerated to be a pad on this cert (no matter matches the real one) is not the ideal color we have in mind. As I see it maybe called a oranigish red sapphire.That''s somewhat out of my expectation.
    But I guess that an ideal colored pad may just be a lighter colored crystal of that kind. We see that pad has a subtle color,not vivid even in light tones. If its color darkens, it maybe just look like that.
    So maybe there''s a vague definition between those stones,whether they are pad or not.
    Is it why GRS named this orangish red stone "pad"?
     
  14. chrono
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by chrono » May 7, 2010
    For me, the ideal colour for a padparadscha is the photo in the cert. I love vividly saturated stones far more than the pastel version that is the commonly accepted definition of padparadscha sapphire.
     
  15. Cehrabehra
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Cehrabehra » May 7, 2010
    to my non colored stoner eye it doesn''t look like any pad I''ve ever seen... but it is a seriously gorgeous color! I call BS on the pad premium though.
     
  16. henrietta
    Rough_Rock

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    by henrietta » May 7, 2010
    I also like the fantastic color. It seems like a bleeding sunset.I think it''s the deeper-colored version of the lighter sapphires we accept as pads.
    Another interesting news I knew from it is that, in Ceylon vendor''s consideration, the deeper colored is the better,and more expensive, because of its rareness. They may hardly know what''s the most commonly accepted color of pad in most of our eyes.[​IMG]
     
  17. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » May 7, 2010
    To my eyes, I find that a very unattractive color. I wouldn't buy it even if it was truly considered a padparadscha. The color, if anything like the photos, leaves much to be desired IMHO. I personally don't like significant brown in my reddish stones.

    If you like that color, get a reddish garnet.
     
  18. innerkitten
    Ideal_Rock

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    by innerkitten » May 7, 2010
    Calling it a pad is really pushing . It''s almost a brick color.
     
  19. innerkitten
    Ideal_Rock

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    by innerkitten » May 7, 2010
    Okay maybe more of a wine.
     
  20. henrietta
    Rough_Rock

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    by henrietta » May 7, 2010
    The photos may not do justice to it, as they are likely to be taken under fluorescent light,which will make red stone look darker.However, I think even in outside daylight it maynot appear as vivid as the cert pic which looks more like a ruby. Pad is always not vivid enough due to its iron content which makes its color fall torwards yellow end. The deeper colored ,the more obvious compared to pink sapphire I guess.

    But, I've really never seen such colored sapphrie before ,no matter pretty or not at all,have you?
     
  21. chrono
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by chrono » May 7, 2010
    No, I would not buy any gemstone like that; the colour is too brown for my personal taste and reminds me of a desaturated spinel or brownish red garnet.
     
  22. LD
    Ideal_Rock

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    by LD » May 7, 2010
    Henrietta - I''ve seen a lot of sapphires this colour. They normally aren''t certified and you can get them very cheaply on Ebay. Sometimes they are sold as Pads, sometimes pink sapphires, sometimes rubies!!!!

    I wouldn''t call this a Pad as I understand the definition and I certainly don''t see an even mix of orange and pink. I see red, purple and brown - even the photo on the certificate looks like it has a spotlight shining on the stone!
     
  23. Arkteia
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Arkteia » May 7, 2010
    I have no clue what it is, but can it be a spinel? I saw several spinels of exactly the same color.

    Henrietta, the tourmaline in your avatar is truly beautiful!
     
  24. soberguy
    Brilliant_Rock

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  25. brazen_irish_hussy
    Ideal_Rock

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    by brazen_irish_hussy » May 7, 2010
    It is a bit hard to tell, but the shape and faceting in the pictures do not look like they match the one in the certification.

    If you like the stone and it is a good price, get it, but it is not a pad and if it is even a sapphire, it must be very treated.
     
  26. MakingTheGrade
    Ideal_Rock

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    by MakingTheGrade » May 7, 2010
    I visited the NSC in NYC and saw a lot of gorgeous pads, there''s just something magical to them when you see them in person I think. But I also love lotuses and their soft blush of color.

    I agree with above, that stone doesn''t fit my idea of a pad. But what''s in a name? As long as you like it :)
     
  27. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » May 7, 2010
    My other concern is that the stone in the hand is somewhat of an elongated cushion and the stone depicted in the photo on the lab certificate is more of an equilateral cushion. I honestly do not think that's the same stone in the lab report, and I have serious doubts it's corundum, but more like an inexpensive spinel.
     
  28. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » May 7, 2010
    thats a pad-poor-dscha...[​IMG]
     
  29. henrietta
    Rough_Rock

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    by henrietta » May 7, 2010
    Thank you all for your concern. Although I like the color, I will never buy it because it's far too expensive for me.
    Please don't be doubtful whether the stone is the one on the cert.It's truely that one. I haven't seen it with my own eye but a friend has. He went to the reputable vendor sometimes.The source is totally trustful. Here's one of some other high-end gems from the same vendor. I have seen these pics before, but this time,when I saw the pad, I feel somewhat surprised and post the thread. But it's truely the one on cert.

    20091129_0be715192ce6d6b4f4b4VX3UTljiC8J5.jpg
     
  30. henrietta
    Rough_Rock

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    by henrietta » May 7, 2010
    Above isn''t the best sapphire from him.Some are even more amazing.
    Here''s a ruby. Photos are also not well-taken, just under indoor light.

    20091129_48189aa02c06daf1dd82aCCELdpBlGfy.jpg
     

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