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Who wants a red diamond?

Discussion in 'Colored Stones' started by kenny, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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  2. FrekeChild
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by FrekeChild » Oct 23, 2011
    Has you written all over it Kenny!
     
  3. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Oct 23, 2011
    Kenny..kenny..kenny..you "gots" to snag this one as well... :naughty:
     
  4. SB621
    Ideal_Rock

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    by SB621 » Oct 23, 2011
    WOA 58k for .20ct...that is too rich for my taste. But it is a lovely color. I will wait to see if it joins your collection or not kenny :naughty: The holidays are right around the corner....
     
  5. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » Oct 23, 2011
    I'll take ten! :mrgreen:
     
  6. KaeKae
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by KaeKae » Oct 23, 2011
    First thought, ugh, no, don't like red diamonds...
    second thought, oooo, pretty!
    third thought, $58K oh, wow, if only!
     
  7. Imdanny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Imdanny » Oct 23, 2011
    Huh? It has a big spot in it. Red or not, or what or what-not, it's pretty ugly and small for 58k. :errrr:
     
  8. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by kenny » Oct 23, 2011
    But it's RED!
     
  9. periwinklegirl
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by periwinklegirl » Oct 23, 2011
    I hear you. I know that it's the most vauable colour. In person I suspect it's pretty dark though.
    I got a tiny reddish purple one (I assume it's irradiated), mostly because I wanted to see what they are like in person, and it's just too dark.
    The picture was great though. Too bad that in person it's so tiny.
     
  10. TristanC
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by TristanC » Oct 24, 2011
    I'm just wondering - at what size point does collecting smallish coloured diamonds make sense beyond the 'individual preference' level.

    I mean obviously there are sites and gem buyers making a big trade out of coloured diamonds, so is there a size point at which gems become more than a small reference mark to a particular colour? I'm guessing this will have a lot of "it varies from person to person" levels as well.

    Truly collectible diamonds are ridiculously large (for their rarity) and ridiculously priced to financial mortals, but sometimes with things that are like 8 pts, 15pts... they seem a touch too small to appreciate without macro photography in a real life setting?

    Unless you have as many as Kenny does of course. That's a mini rainbow, but even at his sizes, getting all those stones is prohibitively expensive to some of us.

    Coloured diamonds to enjoy their colour and fire at their natural sizes... what's a good size? 30pts? 45? Obviously bigger is better but 1ct is massive for rarer colours and already unobtanium.
     
  11. kenny
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    by kenny » Oct 24, 2011
    Good questions Tristan and a very interesting topic.
    How small is just not worth bothering?
    At what carat weight is it "large enough to enjoy"?

    Unfortunately we run into that "people vary" thing again.
    My FCDs range from 8 to 33 pts.
    Of course I'd LOOOOOOVE to have much larger FCDs of the same colors but my tiny ones were expensive enough. :cry:
    I could have avoided the more pricey colors, but I LOVE them.

    One thing I'll point out.
    I can't find a good 1/4 ct brown to add to the collection.
    I think they just don't bother cutting them since, unlike the above Red, they couldn't get much for a tiny brown.

    Honestly, I get immense pleasure from the tiny 8 pt Fancy Intense Greenish Blue Pear below, even with the naked eye.
    The color itself is so rich it doesn't need to be very large.
    The color sends me to a tropical beach in Tahiti, and a hammock tied under curving palm trees.
    Color itself can be a seductive and emotional thing if you are open to it.
    Kind of like a fine super rich chocolate truffle; just one little bite can release plenty of those pleasure endorphins in your brain.



    I really wish people could see these little guys live.
    No they don't do what a 1 ct can do, but what they do they do beautifully.
    I have no regrets spending what I did on the little guys.

    That said, I could totally understand if someone didn't bother with the pricey colors and specialized their a collection in larger yellow and Champagne FCDs.
    At least you'd get much larger stones for the budget.

    I'll also add that, regardless of what you may feel is too small to enjoy, supply and demand influence prices.
    Apparently (at $58K for 0.2 ct) there are many more people who want a red diamond than there are red diamonds to go around.
    This is also true of pure green, blue, orange and violet.
    For people into FCDs they get that small is understandable when the color is good.

    9999999.png
     
  12. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by kenny » Oct 24, 2011
    Something else just struck me.

    Over on Rocky Talk many people, the majority actually, go down in color and clarity to get a larger size?
    H,I,J and SI1, SI2 is a sweet spot for many.
    Well in my FCD safaris I have found myself going down in size so I can keep the color up.
    So in my FCD mind instead of size being priority 1, hue is.

    Now if you can afford the colors that make your heart sing in larger sizes that's wonderful.
    I certainly can't.
     
  13. Justin_Cutter
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Justin_Cutter » Oct 24, 2011
    Great posts Kenny! I personally really like this red diamond. I wish it was a little larger for the price but I get what you are saying regarding the rarity of the color. That black spot in the picture is bothering me though. I can't afford this stone but If I could I would probably pass on it because of the spot. However I bet the color IRL is awesome!

    ~Justin
     
  14. Lady_Disdain
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Lady_Disdain » Oct 24, 2011
    While I can't speak for FCD, since I don't have any small, intensely coloured diamonds, I have a small, 0.12ct hauyne, in the ideal colour. It is very visible - the colour glows and pops. However, it does need a well considered setting. I don't think the usual halo or solitaire designs would be flattering at all.
     
  15. T L
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    by T L » Oct 24, 2011
    That's why I'm a gem collector. I get so much pleasure out of looking at small faceted crystals, I rather be doing that than spending $$$ at the movies.
     
  16. Lee Little
    Shiny_Rock
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    by Lee Little » Oct 24, 2011
    So at that size, it is an accent stone. I have to wonder what kind of a design could be built with it and with what other accents, plus what will be the feature stone be that is worthy of it. Mind candy. Best regards, Lee
     
  17. LD
    Ideal_Rock

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    by LD » Oct 24, 2011
    If you're going to keep diamonds loose then my view is any size is good! Colour is foremost!

    However, from experience, size does matter if the diamond is to be set because (a) the setting can overwhelm the stone and (b) a great deal of thought has to be put into what accent stones should be used, if any.

    If I'm going to have something that I want to stand out and be a centre piece, I won't normally go smaller than .50ct. However, here is a ring that has been very cleverly set using complimentary gold and yellow and white accent diamonds that make the centre stone look much larger than it is (which, from memory, is about .35ct). I've included a hand shot so you can see the perspective.

    Diamond Yellow 1f.JPG

    Diamond Yellow1a.JPG
     
  18. satbeachbill
    Rough_Rock

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    by satbeachbill » Oct 24, 2011
    "The color sends me to a tropical beach in Tahiti, and a hammock tied under curving palm trees."



    That's a beautiful stone....BUT.....you could GO to Tahiti and lay in that hammock cheaper than you can buy that stone.
     
  19. kenny
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    by kenny » Oct 24, 2011
    Ture Dat!
    But I can enjoy this stone every day for the rest of my life then leave it in my will.
    The diamond was much cheaper than the bill for laying in that Tahitian hammock for the rest of my life. :P

    Once a vacation is over it's over for ever, as is your money, and you can't leave the memory of a vacation in your will. :wink2:
     
  20. jstarfireb
    Ideal_Rock

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    by jstarfireb » Oct 24, 2011
    I agree. I like Kenny's other FCDs a lot, but this one isn't doing it for me.
     
  21. Imdanny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Imdanny » Oct 25, 2011
    Kenny,

    I apologize for my petulant response. .2 ct is HUGE.

    A .25 ct round is 4.1 mm. The plain gold wedding band I want so bad is 2.5 mm. A 4 mm ring would be ginormous on me.

    This is the real McCoy red. I understand.

    The cut doesn't do much for me in the pictures but IRL I might love it. Who knows?

    The inclusion looks like a splinter to me. I'd like to pull it out. But IRL it might not bother me.

    I just got a tiny bit jealous because I could never consider buying this. I never give SO presents. I want to get him GOG .5 tcw platinum screwbacks. They would be about $1,500 and they seem so far out of reach for me. :(

    I shouldn't have done that and I hope you can forgive me.

    You're great at collecting FCD and at the end of the day I would trust your judgment over mine no doubt.

    I hope you are feeling well. Hugs.
     
  22. BigVic
    Rough_Rock

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    by BigVic » Oct 25, 2011
    I am new to this and have posted in another thread under radio shows for diamonds but the past few weeks has been a major learning curve. I dislike te fact that you cannot get to a one stop for all of your education and really unbiased views. Be that as it may I am not sure given the incredible difference between retail and wholesale on FCD's that I will be buying anytime soon but I did uncover at elast one more red stone....


    http://www.guildhalldiamonds.com/featured-diamonds/red-diamonds/red-pear-diamond

    I have no idea who they are or where they get their diamonds but I do love Reds :)
     
  23. movie zombie
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    by movie zombie » Oct 25, 2011
    http://www.sdnhm.org/exhibits/allthatglitters/splendor.php

    went down to SDiego to see this last weekend...and the rest of the exhibit, of course. the picture does not show the pure red of the stones.

    this piece will be taken out of the exhibit in a few weeks so if anyone is going to be down there and wants to see it, now is the time.

    http://www.sdnhm.org/exhibits/allthatglitters/rwcross.php

    "Honoring a Truly Exceptional Piece
    As a testament to the extraordinary rarity of a jewel set with 11 red diamonds, the Gemological Institute of America (GIA)—the internationally recognized authority on grading fancy colored diamonds—created a special monograph thoroughly describing the “Red Wonder” cross and documenting its significance. Through its meticulous diamond-grading process, the GIA individually assessed each of the cross’s red stones and gave them an official designation of “Red.” Such a designation for a colored diamond is akin to winning the lottery. The “Red Wonder” cross won the lottery eleven times."

    i cannot even begin to imagine what this piece cost!
     
  24. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » Oct 26, 2011
    I think the whole lot of pure red or primarily red diamonds come from the annual Argyle Pink Tender. These stones are set aside by the owners of the Argyle diamond mine for various dealers to make bids on. The bids are confidential to the other bidders. The pear you picked, is almost a half carat, and if it has a GIA report where red is the primary color, the price goes up exponentially vs the weight. It's not a linear calculation.
     
  25. kenny
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    by kenny » Oct 26, 2011
    FWIW, I specifically asked Leibish if the 0.10 ct GIA pure Red diamond they sold me was in the Argyle Tender auction.
    I was told it was not, because it was too small.
    So when it comes to Argyle tender tip top color is not enough, size matters too.

    That said, the Argyle mine is past its peak.
    The diamonds in this years Tender were smaller and lower in color and clarity than previous years.
    In a few years a 0.10 ct pure Red may perhaps make it into the tender line up.
    (This may be just wannabe wishful thinking on my part though. :cheeky: :oops: )
     
  26. acebruin
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by acebruin » Oct 26, 2011
    some day kenny... some day... :cry:
     
  27. T L
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    by T L » Oct 26, 2011
    There's usually a certificate that accompanies Tender stones, and the Tender id is laser inscribed on the girdle (I believe). You're right, not all reds are part of the Tender.
     
  28. kenny
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    by kenny » Oct 26, 2011
    FYI, I met with an insider in California, who requested to remain anonymous, from whom I learned more on the 2011 Argyle Tender...
    Again, the annual Argyle Tender is a private auction of the mine's 50 or so finest colored diamonds.

    He/she has access to tender data from former years and told me 2011's Tender proves the mine has past its peak.
    I think this means upwards pressure on prices of pinks, violets, purples and reds, most of which have been coming from Argyle in recent years.

    There were 55 stones.

    GIA Hue:
    All were Purple Pink, Purplish Pink or Pink, except for the one Red.
    No blues
    No violets
    No pure Purples
    No Purplish Reds per GIA
    The single Red was graded by GIA 0.80 ct.,Oval, I1, pure Red, but it was graded by Argyle to be Purplish Red, 1PP.

    Weight:
    6 were under half a carat, .30, .34, .36, .42, .46, .48
    33 were 0.50 - 0.99
    14 were 1.00 - 1.99
    2 were over 2 ct, 2.04 and 2.23

    GIA Tone/Saturation:
    1 Fancy
    42 Fancy Intense
    8 Fancy Vivid
    3 Fancy Deep

    GIA Clarity:
    0 F
    0 IF
    0 VVS1
    0 VVS2
    2 VS1
    2 VS2
    11 SI1
    18 SI2
    21 I1
    1 I2

    It is amazing that the Tender now includes a 30 pt, that the most prevalent clarity grade is I1, and that diamonds that did not even rank a Fancy Intense grade can rank with the mine's top output.
    Better Argyle FCDs that were rare in recent years are becoming even more rare.
     
  29. kenny
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    by kenny » Oct 26, 2011
    I suspect you are right that all Tender stones come with an Argyle Authenticity Document (and GIA report) but many non-tender stones also have that Argyle Document.

    Some non-tender stones do have the Argyle laser inscription AND the Argyle Authenticity Document.
    Some non-tender stones do have the Argyle laser inscription but NO Argyle Authenticity Document.

    The latter is the case with my pP emerald cut, which definitely was NOT tender goods.
    http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/2709.htm

    Here's a close up I was able to take of my inscription:



    I have not been able to figure out Argyle's system for which stones get what.
    I originally assumed the higher the grades and size the more likely Argyle would provide these two features, as if they were proud of their best stones.
    But after a few years of paying attention I noticed some more expensive pinks do not have the Argyle Document or the inscription, while some less-expensive ones have one or both of them.
    I asked people in the industry and they say that Argyle doesn't really explain itself.


    BTW, Leibish has told me that regardless of the Document and inscription an expert can easily tell if a pink is from Argyle by the hue.

    Argyle laser insc.png
     
  30. ideal5555
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