Which vendors sell "almost" /unbranded H&A?

[dancinbaby]

I know that Whiteflash has their "expert selection" w/several "almost" H&A diamonds. I don''t need perfect branded H&A.
Any other vendors offer something similar?

 

[perry]

There are many companies who offer some form of "near" H&A diamonds (and may even call them H&A).

My understanding of the issue is that H&A were developed in Japan under extreemly tight tolerences for what qualified as a H&A. It is also my understanding that there is not a single diamond cutter today who is trying to meet the original standards, but may on occasion produce and isolated diamond here or there that meets those standards.

The companies selling susposed branded H&A''s do not in general meet the original standard for what was a H&A (but because the diamonds show a pattern they claim H&A status). Several companies recognize that their diamonds do not meet the technical standards for H&A''s - but that they have diamonds that are just as close as the companies suposedly selling "branded" H&A''s. As such, these companies typically show you a picture from a H&A viewer and let you judge. Sorting them all out is fun, but I would not hesitate to buy a diamond from Good Old Gold, NiceIce, Whitflash and a few others. All of these companiesl sell diamonds that the common folk (and many on this site) would call H&A''s even though almost none of them meet the original secification for H&A.

Perry

 

[Regular Guy]

Sounds like you''ve gotten good advice.

By the way, if you look up, it appears that for the big database here, that many of the vendors here draw from, and where stock can be "pulled down by them" -- selecting "H&A" as a constraint is an option.

Consistent with the "continuum" of your question, after selecting one of the vendors "in-house" diamonds to look at, you might consider asking them to also call in for you one of those, to see if it isn''t as good or better than the one sitting in their drawer. Actually, since it will inevitably cost less, you''ll have to judge by the "crook" in their voice as to whether their comparison will be based on spin or not, I suppose. That selection would have been a blind card until drawn, right? As necessary, an appraiser could be used to help ferret out the choices.

As a shameless promotion of the idea, look here to see how it follows out.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 12/10/2004 7:20:57 AM
Author: perry
There are many companies who offer some form of 'near' H&A diamonds (and may even call them H&A).

This is true. If you are seeking true or even near-true patterning you should know that many H&A stones on the market do not conform to a set of standards.

My understanding of the issue is that H&A were developed in Japan under extreemly tight tolerences for what qualified as a H&A.; It is also my understanding that there is not a single diamond cutter today who is trying to meet the original standards, but may on occasion produce and isolated diamond here or there that meets those standards.

I have to disgagree, though the number of stones cut to highest H&A standards is small. Much work goes into producing such a stone and it is done deliberately.

The companies selling susposed branded H&A's do not in general meet the original standard for what was a H&A (but because the diamonds show a pattern they claim H&A status).; Several companies recognize that their diamonds do not meet the technical standards for H&A's - but that they have diamonds that are just as close as the companies suposedly selling 'branded' H&A's; As such, these companies typically show you a picture from a H&A viewer and let you judge; Sorting them all out is fun, but I would not hesitate to buy a diamond from Good Old Gold, NiceIce, Whitflash and a few others; All of these companiesl sell diamonds that the common folk (and many on this site) would call H&A's even though almost none of them meet the original secification for H&A.

Perry

Hmm... Perry - Where are you getting your information? The development of the firescope in 1970's and 80's spawned interest in a three-dimensional display of the optical performance of all 57 facets of the RB (I'm sure you know 8* is cut for the arrows and no light leakage). After that, the further development of the H&A viewer and cutting for the H&A effect then evolved, but it took time. In the 1990s the SuperIdeal reached America. Since that time original standards have both evolved and devolved. There are cutters holding true - and working to improve - "TRUE" patterning. On the other hand, Near-True and Phony H&A can be sold as H&A since there is no grading system. I think it's safe to say the majority of H&A don't meet the highest standards.

If you purchased a copy of the notes from the IDCC (available on Garry's site) you will see that Brian Gavin proposed a system of grading H&A.

Much info on Hearts & Arrows and True Patterning standards linked here. (including a checklist for true patterning).

There are 3 ways to find H&A which hold to the highest standards: 1. Learn to interpret the proportions and imagery and base decisions on true patterning on your own knowledge base. 2. Wait for a grading system for H&A and only buy true patterning as graded by a lab. 3. Go with a brand which guarantees true patterning, or a vendor who sells unbranded H&A and guarantees the true patterning.

For the original poster - "Expert Selection" was not created to sell any sort of H&A. You might find a stone like Mara did, which did not meet the true standards we guarantee, but we do not promote those as H&A...Never have and never will. As she will tell you, though - that stone is a firecracker. The patterning is quite good, just not exacting enough to be branded ACA.

Perry, in essence, I think we may be presenting the same thoughts: Standards for H&A have been diluted with mass-marketing. But I think it is important to recognize that there are cutters today producing H&A at the highest level.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 12/10/2004 8:50:45 AM
Author: Regular Guy
As a shameless promotion of the idea, look here to see how it follows out.

Good link - well thought-out post!