Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HCA?

[goodies]

Hi everyone. I am a long term lurker and have received my engagement ring. We were on a small budget and are from a country where .50c centres are what is normal, so we were looking at a .35, I/J SI. My fiance bought a .40, F I1. I was excited about this because it was a nice size for me and the colour is just divine. I became sensitive to colour after pricescoping for months, so I was quite pleased The inclusions are white and I can see one of them; it is a small scratch next to a prong, but only in certain lights and that is OK. I am a very sentimental sort, so I love the fact that he lovingly chose this after looking at stones every day for a week.

Now let's get to the point! These are the specs.
depth: 61.5%
table:63.0%
diameter: 4.67mm
crown angle:34.6
pavilion angle: 41.5
culet: 1.5%
girdle: 5.0

I excitedly put them into the HCA, and they performed HORRIFICALLY. The diamond is rated a 7.1 in general, with very poor fire and scintillation. I can see the lack of fire - in normal light, it has more of a CZ appearance. It's definitely white and gorgeous, but it is not 'on fire'. In florescent and spotlighting, it is obviously quite sparkly and it makes me smile

I know that you are all cut nuts here and you are all cringing right now! I'd say the diamond is a good looking little thing and I love it very much, (it doesn't look 'dead' to me) but I was shocked by how un-awesome it is apparently meant to look. You don't have to pussyfoot with your comments, but if you could please not make me feel bad about the quality of the stone, I would appreciate it. I'm just confused because none of the specs seem to be toooo far from the ideal? Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[goodies]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

Just gave it a clean and it looks GREAT. Still find that poor score hard to believe. It really is pretty. I think if I ever saw a stone in normal lighting with a 1 rating I would be blinded!

 

[MissGotRocks]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

What's most important is that you love it. Don't spend time second guessing what it is or what it could be. If it's pleasing to your eye, then that's all that matters.

There are a few of the numbers that the HCA would ding for but again, as long as you love it and are going to keep the stone, don't sweat it - just enjoy!

 

[jess719]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

I'm faaaar from being an expert. You can consider me an anti-expert. But I'm up early, and I saw your post. I took all of the numbers and played with them in the HCA. By making the table much smaller, it brings the number down considerably. By making just the table 53, the HCA gives it a score of 5.4. By making the table 53, and the pavilion angle 41, it gave it an HCA score of 2. Hopefully someone with more experience will be able to actually help you!

Besides, if you love it, that's all that matters!

ETA: If your FI spent a week looking at stones, I'm sure he picked a beautiful one! Who cares what the HCA says?

 

[Laila619]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

Yes, it's the huge table of 63% and the pavilion angle of 41.5 that are making the diamond score poorly.

If you love it, don't worry about it! If you find it lacking, maybe you could exchange it or trade it in?

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

Table is huge, crown will be low...

 

[JulieN]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

CZ actually has more fire if cut correctly.

If it looks like bad CZ....

 

[Laila619]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

The crown isn't low, it's 34.6 which is fine. It's just the huge table might make the stone seem 'glassy' looking.

 

[goodies]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

Thanks for the feedback ladies. I had a brief thought about returning it and choosing a new stone on the sly, but I would feel dishonest and I don't think that this is what this particular stone is about. My fiance is not a diamond fundi and chose what he thought I would love, and this is the stone I will keep. I will upgrade it for a five year anniversary perhaps There will be another time for a perfect diamond, and now is just not the time.

 

[John P]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

The crown isn't low, it's 34.6 which is fine. It's just the huge table might make the stone seem 'glassy' looking.

You and Gypsy are both right: A 34.6 CA is not shallow, but that 63% table causes it to be lower than if the table were in the 50s. That combination drops the crown height to <13% (a Tolk RB is around 15%). In technical terms this helps to explain the lack of fire goodies mentioned.

 

[Laila619]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

John,

Can just a table be re-cut, or is that basically impossible?

 

[John P]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

...You don't have to pussyfoot with your comments, but if you could please not make me feel bad about the quality of the stone, I would appreciate it...

Goodies, that will absolutely be my goal.

My take is going to come from a slightly different direction: First, my motivation to be in the diamond business comes from a desire to champion consumer protection in the area of cut quality. This is the least-understood and least-developed area of all of our Cs. But as professionals...just as we should not sell someone a diamond with durability issues...I feel we should protect consumers in terms of cut quality too.

Not everyone wants or needs the most super-duper-hyper-maximo level of cut quality that exists. For that matter some people choose to de-emphasize cut on purpose: Maybe someone wants DEF color or very high clarity because they are in love with the idea of color/clarity purity. Or someone may want to hit a certain carat weight no matter what, so they choose to make cut to a lower priority.

But since cut quality is completely in man's control I do feel professionals should guide people to a level of cut, at the minimum, that (a) created a spread appropriate to carat weight and (b) does not result in light-loss at the edges or under-table. I feel these things should be compulsory, but they are not.

So here is the part where I will not pussyfoot around: (a) At the proportions you listed (esp with the 5% girdle) your 0.40ct is facing up around 6% smaller than it should for its weight, and (b) it was cut in such a way that in non-direct lighting it will fade notably at the edges. In technical terms GIA would grade the proportions G. AGSL would give it a 5 in performance.



Now here is the part I think is most important: As you and others have said - this is first and foremost a symbol. Your gentlemen should not have to become a diamond guru to make this purchase, and he's in a boat with many other people. At the end of the day this was not an investment or commodities purchase - it's something to represent your bond and for that it will serve nicely.

Here is another part that I hope is useful: Not everyone needs super-uber cut. It's possible you were charged fairly for this diamond, with a discount for below average cut quality. In fact that is my main message here... If you received it at a fair price for the product, no worries. Meanwhile, since you asked, I hope you don't mind that I illuminate where it stands in terms of its fourth C.

Here is yet another point worth noting: You mentioned being in another country. I will tell you flat out, it's harder in some places to acquire even nominal cut. You got a high color and it sounds like your jeweler was providing choices. It's likely that your jeweler, your man and you went forward in the most logical way to get this done, and that's important.

With the above said, you're correct about PS: You have landed in a place where cut is dissected far beyond average. To that end, I sincerely hope this post is helpful in terms of providing feedback from a specialist's (and admitted cut geek's) perspective.

 

[John P]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

John,

Can just a table be re-cut, or is that basically impossible?

The table can be altered, pending an analysis of physical factors. If the main crown angles were polished down to 32.20 the table would come down to 59%. The result would be AGS2 predicted performance at 0.38ct. There's a lot of room in that girdle, so more might be possible.

 

[goodies]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

Thank you for that excellent feedback John!

I am indeed disappointed about all the information But it is what it is.

The stone was not expensive. I don't believe he was conned or anything. Most people buy the crap in chain stores where I come from, and we decided to choose one from a jeweller and have it set - boy did we think we were smart

It actually looks fairly big to me and quite sparkly as long as it's squeaky clean. Is it really as bad as it sounds? Is it really the bottom of the barrel? I'm still happy with it, but it does make me sad that the jeweller would happily sell poorly cut stones. It is always the buyer beware though of course.

So what was the talk of it being recut? Does the jeweler do this? And would I not lose too much carat size on an already small stone? How does this work? Thank you all for you time in answering my post!

 

[John P]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

Thank you for that excellent feedback John!

I am indeed disappointed about all the information But it is what it is.

You're welcome Goodies. And don't worry: It's definitely not the bottom of the barrel. I'm also confident you two made a better choice by going to a jeweler and selecting the diamond loose, other than the alternative.

In the big picture the nice thing about any diamond is the material has wonderful properties which look pretty terrific, even if the geometry isn't optimal. And in defense of your jeweler; knowledge about the proportions and performance issues discussed here is not widespread in the retail world. The fact that he gave you fair value for the money is important.

So what was the talk of it being recut? Does the jeweler do this? And would I not lose too much carat size on an already small stone? How does this work? Thank you all for you time in answering my post!

Diamond repair/improvement would be done by a qualified diamond cutter. By the basic numbers yours does seem a candidate for improvement without much loss of weight.

But before you consider that, I suggest you give it some time. Enjoy everything you like about it as-is, and put all of this in context... A month or a year from now you might laugh you ever considered it. Or, if the idea is still interesting to you and your gent down the road you can pursue more info about it then. Either way, your diamond is just as important and meaningful right now as it was on the day you received it.

Cheers,

 

[Laila619]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

Can you still exchange it, or are you too sentimental about the stone? Rather than risking a re-cut, I might consider exchanging. If you're worried about what your fiance would think, I bet that above all else, he just wants you to be happy! I switched out my setting when I was first engaged, and my DH didn't mind at all. He wanted to me love my ring.

 

[goodies]

Re: Which spec is making this diamond perform so badly on HC

Laila he is very proud of choosing this one. You see, the ring actually has matching baguettes which were very white, and it was difficult to match the colour but stay in our budget. So I reckon this was quite a good find to him finally. He said that it sparkled more than the others, and that he had looked at well cut ones but they 'looked the same'. This is from someone who leaves crumbs on the washed dishes, so it makes me giggle I may look into getting it recut, but I think the inclusions may make that difficult?

I think the stone suits me in a way - I call it my shy diamond, just a little scared of sparkling for attention sometimes!

There was a post that I read once (not sure if on here) about a 'sad diamond'. Someone posted a monstrosity, and after much ragging on the thing everyone started to feel sorry for it, thinking that no one in the world would love this diamond! Well my diamond needs love, and just because it wasn't given a nice haircut, doesn't mean it isn't beautiful!

And with that nauseating monologue, I will be off! Thanks everyone!