When buying a diamond off the street....

[celery911]

My mom is buying a diamond from a friend of a friend. My mom thinks that she''s a sophisticated diamond buyer but I''m concerned because I know she''s not (neither am I). I have no reason to be suspicious of the seller, but the seller is not an established store with a long standing reputation, it''s an individual who got divorced and wants to pawn off a diamond. My mom showed me a copy of the GIA report but it''s one of the older ones and as such is missing all the information about crown height, and other proportions that you see in GIA reports nowadays. They actually don''t even list a diamond cut grade.

What steps would you take before buying the diamond? I suggested to my mom that she should meet the diamond seller at a gemologist/diamond appraiser that my mom trusts to evaluate the diamond and first ensure that the GIA report matches the diamond and secondly give their estimate of the diamond''s value. I am waiting on an idealscope beginner scope so I''ll lend that to her if it arrives in time - though that might do more harm than good if it gives her false self confidence in thinking she knows more about diamonds than she does.

Do you guys have any suggestions to add? It doesn''t matter how common sensical they may be. I''m just looking out for my mom. Like I said, I have no reason to believe the seller is looking to rip off my mom, just being cautious.

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 1/27/2009 1:47:58 PM
Author:celery911
I suggested to my mom that she should meet the diamond seller at a gemologist/diamond appraiser that my mom trusts to evaluate the diamond and first ensure that the GIA report matches the diamond and secondly give their estimate of the diamond''s value.

Your own advice is the best:

Make sure your Mom meets the seller at the office of an independent Gemologist / Appraiser. This enables her to view the diamond in a secure environment and have the diamond evaluated by a professional to ensure that everything is as it is supposed to be and that the diamond is not damaged. While the lab report is "old" and lacks the crown and pavilion angle measurements provided on current GIA lab reports, there is no reason why the diamond could not be dismounted (if set) and measured using Sarin / OGI / Helium analysis to obtain those measurements.

Perhaps the Gemologist / Appraiser will have an ideal scope so you don''t have to wait? There is a list of Gemologist / Appraisers available within the Resources link that appears at the top of this page, although it sounds like your Mom has one who she has worked with before.

Please - Please - Please don''t invite the seller to your home! I''ve got a good feeling that you already know that

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/27/2009 2:01:20 PM
Author: Todd Gray

Date: 1/27/2009 1:47:58 PM
Author:celery911
I suggested to my mom that she should meet the diamond seller at a gemologist/diamond appraiser that my mom trusts to evaluate the diamond and first ensure that the GIA report matches the diamond and secondly give their estimate of the diamond''s value.

Your own advice is the best:

Make sure your Mom meets the seller at the office of an independent Gemologist / Appraiser. This enables her to view the diamond in a secure environment and have the diamond evaluated by a professional to ensure that everything is as it is supposed to be and that the diamond is not damaged. While the lab report is ''old'' and lacks the crown and pavilion angle measurements provided on current GIA lab reports, there is no reason why the diamond could not be dismounted (if set) and measured using Sarin / OGI / Helium analysis to obtain those measurements.

Perhaps the Gemologist / Appraiser will have an ideal scope so you don''t have to wait? There is a list of Gemologist / Appraisers available within the Resources link that appears at the top of this page, although it sounds like your Mom has one who she has worked with before.

Please - Please - Please don''t invite the seller to your home! I''ve got a good feeling that you already know that

Ditto every word of Todds!!

 

[celery911]

Any thoughts on how to ensure (to the best of her abilities) that it''s not a stolen rock? I told my mom to use her common sense and see if the woman has roughly the same finger size as the ring. If it''s a guy selling the ring, I''d be skeptical. I might also call the local police stations to see if there are any diamonds listed as stolen fitting the descriptions of the ring my mom is looking to buy. Other than that, I can''t think of any other safeguards. She wants to get a discount by dealing with someone essentially off the street, she faces some risks.

 

[swingirl]

Unless the seller has a receipt there is no way to know the origin of the stone. It could be stolen, I could have been purchased on ebay and it the friend of a friend could be the original owner. No way of telling.

What tools does your mother use to make her a sophisticated diamond buyer? You should introduce her to PS where she can see what the going price for stones is and what a well cut stone should look like under a loupe.

My guess is if it's "off the street" it's being sold by someone who wants to dump it quickly.

 

[celery911]

Date: 1/27/2009 7:17:54 PM
Author: swingirl
Unless the seller has a receipt there is no way to know the origin of the stone. It could be stolen, I could have been purchased on ebay and it the friend of a friend could be the original owner. No way of telling.

What tools does your mother use to make her a sophisticated diamond buyer? You should introduce her to PS where she can see what the going price for stones is and what a well cut stone should look like under a loupe.

My guess is if it''s ''off the street'' it''s being sold by someone who wants to dump it quickly.

Thanks for everyone''s advice so far. As I said before, my mom is not a sophisticated buyer, but thinks she is. She didn''t say so in that many words, but buying a diamond based only on your observations with a 10x and 20x loupe implies you think you know what you''re doing.

All I know of this diamond is that it''s a round 2.00-2.50ct (haha, I''m serious, I''m working on very rough information here), D color, "probably" excellent-VG cut, VS2 clarity with Good symmetry (not sure what the polish is). Any rough guesses how much the average jewler would offer to buy this thing for vs Rapaport prices based on the limited info I just gave? I told my mom to just offer 50% off Rap (I''m not even sure where that would put the price since I don''t have exact specs on the diamond).

I''m actually in the market for an engagement ring myself, but this thing is probably going to be several thousand out of my range and I can''t front run my mom....that''s just wrong.

I''ll keep you guys updated on this potential train wreck/awesome buy.

 

[:)]

I agree with your own advice re: meeting with an appraiser - I would specifically choose an appraiser with an IS, etc so that he/she can help her properly evaluate the stone, and confirm that the clarity grade has not changed over the years (from chips in the girdle, etc).

If your mom won''t set up an appraiser meeting, she could tell the person to send it to GIA for regrading - this will get updated cut info, and again confirm that the clarity has not changed over the years.

 

[celery911]

Talk about shady...

The friend of the friend who was looking to sell the diamond to my mom had to return to India for an "emergency" a day before she was supposed to meet up with my mom and it''s not clear when she''s coming back. What a relief...I''ve been really worried about how this would turn out.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/29/2009 6:14:07 PM
Author: celery911
Talk about shady...

The friend of the friend who was looking to sell the diamond to my mom had to return to India for an ''emergency'' a day before she was supposed to meet up with my mom and it''s not clear when she''s coming back. What a relief...I''ve been really worried about how this would turn out.

I am glad that a meeting and subsequent purchase was averted. I can imagine your relief.

 

[denverappraiser]

This is nuts.

How did you come by this figure? 50% off of Rap of what? You don’t even have the weight! Why do you think the GIA copy you’re looking at is even applicable? What the heck does ‘probably’ excellent or VG cutting mean? I’ll take it to mean G for lack of other information. That’s a 50% hit.

Mom is trying to save $200 in expert fees by guessing at details that are going to make a $5,000-$10,000 difference in the price. Yikes. I’m not surprised that the seller is encouraging her to do this but I think she’s making a mistake to even be considering this deal without further information.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[jewelerman]

This deal was a train wreak waiting to happen!More often then not these deals turn out badly.

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 1/30/2009 8:08:35 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Mom is trying to save $200 in expert fees by guessing at details that are going to make a $5,000-$10,000 difference in the price. Yikes. I’m not surprised that the seller is encouraging her to do this but I think she’s making a mistake to even be considering this deal without further information.

Where is a Smiley Icon for Banging My Head Against The Desk when you need it

I emphatically DITTO this comment from Neil, having a diamond evaluated by an independent Gemologist / Appraiser is simply good common sense regardless of whether you are buying the diamond off the "Pssst, hey buddy" guy off the street or from a reputable dealer online or in-person. It''s called "due diligence". Man Celery, I''m really glad that you''re trying to be there for your mom on this! Moms can be too trusting, then again maybe that''s why they don''t drown us at birth