What''s the deal with settings for diamonds? With regard to both vendors & appraisers

[Regular Guy]

So, if you know personally, and can share, help us out!

a) which dealers have them at all...or do you just get the diamond from the dealer?
b) if they sell the diamond and setting....is the setting of the diamond done in house?
c) if the setting of the diamond is not done on premises, once the ring is complete, is the craftsmanship of the setting work seen by the vendor after
d) do these issues of craftsmanship matter to shoppers
e) if the diamond and setting is seen by an appraiser, are the craftsmanship details attended to with a high level of precision by the appraiser (as my brief experience suggests that if the appraiser''s training is more purely gemological, and they -- for example -- did not have experience setting diamonds, that this detail of how the diamond is specifically set may not be attended to in the way it might be).

and...for those of you who don''t care, because your diamond and setting are not being done by the same vendor...

f) how do you expect to be satisfied that the craftsmanship is executed to your satisfaction, and
g) what remedies do you have in mind, if the job is not done to spec

Mostly questions. Thanks in advance!

 

[oldminer]

Many appraisers are gemologically oriented and have little working experince at the bench. However, appraisers who are well trained do develop knowledge and skills in the metal parts of jewelry too.

One of the reasons we often help with setting a stone or some alteration that needs to be done, is becuase we have a lot of experience in this part of the business. Without that self confidence, we wouldn''t want to do it.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 11/8/2006 7:48:57 AM
Author:Regular Guy
So, if you know personally, and can share, help us out!

a) which dealers have them at all...or do you just get the diamond from the dealer?
b) if they sell the diamond and setting....is the setting of the diamond done in house?
c) if the setting of the diamond is not done on premises, once the ring is complete, is the craftsmanship of the setting work seen by the vendor after
d) do these issues of craftsmanship matter to shoppers
e) if the diamond and setting is seen by an appraiser, are the craftsmanship details attended to with a high level of precision by the appraiser (as my brief experience suggests that if the appraiser''s training is more purely gemological, and they -- for example -- did not have experience setting diamonds, that this detail of how the diamond is specifically set may not be attended to in the way it might be).

and...for those of you who don''t care, because your diamond and setting are not being done by the same vendor...

f) how do you expect to be satisfied that the craftsmanship is executed to your satisfaction, and
g) what remedies do you have in mind, if the job is not done to spec

Mostly questions. Thanks in advance!

I *think* I fall under f/g but I''m not sure what you mean... did you mean the ring and the setting being done separately? Because I got my diamond online but someone local is doing the ring AND the setting.

 

[Regular Guy]

Cehrabehra,

Thanks for getting back.

Seems like especially for those considering which vendor to go with, though possibly secondary to their decision making about the diamond, figuring out how their diamond will come together with their ring might be right up there as part of their concern, and might also influence who they go with.

In your case, having made your decision...(f) and (g) are not categories, but questions. Are they relevant to you? Do you have answers for them, or are they non-issues for some reason?

 

[Modified Brilliant]

As David states, many of us do have backgrounds in manufacturing/quality control, etc.

We can spot inferior workmanship, potential problems with prongs and castings, porosity issues, etc.

When you''re spending your hard earned money...there should be no compromise on quality of workmanship.


www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[Regular Guy]

David, Jeff, (and interested other appraisers),

Thank you both for replying.

Not sure if you''d like to go out a bit further, and share some data...now that I''m asking...

No doubt you deal not only with the vendors on this board, but all sorts of fare, from top to bottom, with respect to seeing craftsmanship represented in the ordinary setting which holds a diamond.

Care to share any outcomes of your review of these? For example, the frequency with which you need to tell a client that it would be best if some modification were made to the setting....either for the safety, if not the aesthetic of the ring? Heavens, if there is some measurable instances in which you''ve needed to report that the process of setting seems to have effected the diamond itself, this could be good to know, too.

 

[oldminer]

Most ellers have a good idea if a new item is going to be going out for an independent opinion at purchase or just after. I think that alone helps to insure a better effort on their part. We don''t have lots of problems with making corrective suggestions all that frequently, but occasionally there is a problem which needs to be addressed. We are direct about it, but not cruel. If it can be corrected, we suggest giving it a try. If a piece is just plain wrong, we must face it, report it and suffer the consequences of whatever we feel compelled to say.

Being a diplomat hlps resolve problems. Scaring people or punishing retailers is not a worthwhile goal. So long as problems are fixed and people end up with a great piece, we are content. I am just getting involved in one where the prongs were way too long and thin and the stone was lost. Expert witness work is good pay for an appraiser, but the industry is better served when no problems get to that level. Had the jewelry been made better there would never have been such a lawsuit. It is not frequent, but anything that can happen eventually does happen.

 

[denverappraiser]

Like David and Jeff, I have quite a bit of bench experience. I spent decades doing bench work as well as training and managing others to do the same. For new purchase Internet customers, especially those who buy from the top tier diamond dealers like the advertisers here, I find craftsmanship problems with the mounting to be the #1 issue when an appraisal session results in discovering unknown problems and this is almost always because there is a 3rd party setter involved that the client didn’t research. They just picked someone more or less at random. People get tired of the shopping process after they finally pick the perfect diamond and don’t want to take the effort to shop for the next step since it''s usually not all that expensive when compared to the cost of the diamond. In most cases, it’s a simple matter for the retailer to remedy the problems but they are occasionally serious and can damage the diamond, the mounting or both as well as compromising the security of the stone. I''m pretty picky, but not unfairly so. I also agree with David that when the setter knows that the final QC will be done by me they take extra care to do it right because they don''t want to see it again. I don''t get invited to the jeweler parties anymore.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Modified Brilliant]

It''s not that frequent that a mounting is rejected in its entirety. However, diamonds that are not seated properly or slightly raised prongs that are catching are problems that occur more often.
It''s important that a consumer takes as much interest in the mounting and the setting of the diamond as the main diamond purchase. When a client brings in a new ring that has never been worn, with fibers under the prongs, that''s a problem that needs to be corrected.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[:)]

Date: 11/8/2006 7:48:57 AM
Author:Regular Guy
So, if you know personally, and can share, help us out!

a) which dealers have them at all...or do you just get the diamond from the dealer?
b) if they sell the diamond and setting....is the setting of the diamond done in house?
c) if the setting of the diamond is not done on premises, once the ring is complete, is the craftsmanship of the setting work seen by the vendor after
d) do these issues of craftsmanship matter to shoppers
e) if the diamond and setting is seen by an appraiser, are the craftsmanship details attended to with a high level of precision by the appraiser (as my brief experience suggests that if the appraiser''s training is more purely gemological, and they -- for example -- did not have experience setting diamonds, that this detail of how the diamond is specifically set may not be attended to in the way it might be).

and...for those of you who don''t care, because your diamond and setting are not being done by the same vendor...

f) how do you expect to be satisfied that the craftsmanship is executed to your satisfaction, and
g) what remedies do you have in mind, if the job is not done to spec

Mostly questions. Thanks in advance!

Okay, I don''t meet most of these, but...
D) Absolutely

I am VERY interested in the answers to B and C.

Because of my answer to D, I suspect I will likely get it set locally so that I can address any problems easily and b/c I want to be able to examine the stone prior to setting it and want to be able to see how the setting looks on my finger, how high the diamond sits in the setting, etc (once I finally buy it that is!)

 

[Ellen]

Date: 11/8/2006 9:41:00 PM
Author:

Date: 11/8/2006 7:48:57 AM
Author:Regular Guy
So, if you know personally, and can share, help us out!

a) which dealers have them at all...or do you just get the diamond from the dealer?
b) if they sell the diamond and setting....is the setting of the diamond done in house?
c) if the setting of the diamond is not done on premises, once the ring is complete, is the craftsmanship of the setting work seen by the vendor after
d) do these issues of craftsmanship matter to shoppers
e) if the diamond and setting is seen by an appraiser, are the craftsmanship details attended to with a high level of precision by the appraiser (as my brief experience suggests that if the appraiser''s training is more purely gemological, and they -- for example -- did not have experience setting diamonds, that this detail of how the diamond is specifically set may not be attended to in the way it might be).

and...for those of you who don''t care, because your diamond and setting are not being done by the same vendor...

f) how do you expect to be satisfied that the craftsmanship is executed to your satisfaction, and
g) what remedies do you have in mind, if the job is not done to spec

Mostly questions. Thanks in advance!

Okay, I don''t meet most of these, but...
D) Absolutely

I am VERY interested in the answers to B and C.

Because of my answer to D, I suspect I will likely get it set locally so that I can address any problems easily and b/c I want to be able to examine the stone prior to setting it and want to be able to see how the setting looks on my finger, how high the diamond sits in the setting, etc (once I finally buy it that is!)

I bought my diamond and setting from GOG. The setting was by D''Vatche, and D''Vatche set it. It was then sent back to GOG, inspected, and shipped to me.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 11/8/2006 11:55:30 AM
Author: Regular Guy
Cehrabehra,

Thanks for getting back.

Seems like especially for those considering which vendor to go with, though possibly secondary to their decision making about the diamond, figuring out how their diamond will come together with their ring might be right up there as part of their concern, and might also influence who they go with.

In your case, having made your decision...(f) and (g) are not categories, but questions. Are they relevant to you? Do you have answers for them, or are they non-issues for some reason?

I don''t know that I would call them non-issues... but I don''t know how I would rank them either...

f) well, I feel somewhat more at ease having my ring made locally for several reasons... one is that I can monitor the process, another is for maintenance.... and how do I expect? I hover LOL Since the whole ring is basically totally custom and designed by me (othr than the idea of beveled edges), I knew it would be very difficult to describe it and I was really concerned how that was going to work. Had I bought a diamond from WF I likely would have had them make it and I was scared about that because of communication issues.... if this falls through I still very well might go with a PS vendor to make the ring, now that the tough to describe issues have already been waxed it''d be easier to explain the changes that need to be made than to explain it from scratch. I digress - how do I make sure it will meet my satisfaction? I kinda tested my jeweler about various details I wanted control over and she not only agreed she offered up some I hadn''t mentioned. Being local I can really be there to monitor every step of the way, but it also is making it much longer I think. I don''t think they''re used to the level of detail I''m insisting upon and they aren''t really set up for it business wise - though they are talented enough to carry it out. I''m pretty sure they''re looking at my ring as an example of where they can go in the future.

g) well being they''re local I can pursue something legal far more easily if it came to that... I also have local word of mouth. I''m very hopeful it will NEVER come to that, but what do any of us really have if a jeweler refuses to fix things other than acquiescence or litigtion?

 

[Regular Guy]

Cehrabera,

For f & g, I guess -- and depending on what sorts of problems would ensue -- I was only thinking (and I am not typically a shill for this) that an independent appraiser could be the only sort of help. First, to actually be possibly the first person to notice some problem in workmanship in the first place. And then, depending on when the problem was noticed, to be helpful in pointing fingers to when in the chain of events the problem happened.

Take the worst case, where, after the setting is engaged, the diamond appears to be damaged. Surely, the setter will not want to take responsibility for this, and could argue it was like that when he got it, unless it had been inspected before he got it, etc.

In a less than worse case, if there is just a question about execution re the setting, again, an appraiser could work as a third party, disinterested, arbiter, to represent you.

Just some thoughts, again,

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 11/9/2006 6:52:14 AM
Author: Regular Guy
Cehrabera,

For f & g, I guess -- and depending on what sorts of problems would ensue -- I was only thinking (and I am not typically a shill for this) that an independent appraiser could be the only sort of help. First, to actually be possibly the first person to notice some problem in workmanship in the first place. And then, depending on when the problem was noticed, to be helpful in pointing fingers to when in the chain of events the problem happened.

Take the worst case, where, after the setting is engaged, the diamond appears to be damaged. Surely, the setter will not want to take responsibility for this, and could argue it was like that when he got it, unless it had been inspected before he got it, etc.

In a less than worse case, if there is just a question about execution re the setting, again, an appraiser could work as a third party, disinterested, arbiter, to represent you.

Just some thoughts, again,

Yes.... I am planning on an independent appraiser - the jeweler said he would have it appraised downtown here (independent? and local) before he gave it to me, but I''m still going to have it done independently by someone from PS that I respect. I also plan to send him the diamond before its set.... the diamond is at the jeweler now because it''s such an unusual shape and they needed it for design, but as soon as I can I''m going to take it and ship it off, mostly because I want to document the angles facets for my own perverse database LOL I really wasn''t thinking in terms of how an independent appraiser could protect me, but... now that you mention it.....

of course if this third party appraiser is 3000 miles away - is that going to help me???? serious question!!!!

 

[strmrdr]

e> Im lucky enough to have found a very very skilled metalsmith in my area and his quality has always passed my tests. I most likely would not consider a setting by anyone else. But would buy the diamond online.

f> he will repair or redo it until I'm happy, unless there is a breakdown in communication on the design I just dont see that being needed because all his work has been first rate.

He does thousands of settings a year and even some local shops who have their own staff use him for complicated or very high end jobs.
He honestly couldn't care less about the ideal diamond debate but he is a master metalsmith in both gold and plat.
For example I took a used ring into him for a polish and cleaning, in 2min flat he had it to a better looking polish including the small hard to reach places than you would find in any local store where they do their own.
It took longer in the ultra-sonic to clean the polish compound off than it did for him to polish it to very high standards.