What the eye can see???

[jddiamond]

As a novice and one who wants a nice size stone of good quality, what are the "lowest" measrments, or color, clarity grade you can have and not be able to tell the difference.
I was looking at an H, VS2, ex polish, ex symm, ideal cut RB.
Can I go to a lower grade in any or all category to save $$$ or increase size without a noticable change in the overall quality of the stone?

 

[belle]

it really comes down to cut quality. a well cut stone is going to sparkle like crazy and therefore, you won''t readily notice body color/inclusions that you would in a poor cut with little or no real performance(sparkle).
also, at some point size becomes an issue. it''s harder to see body color/inclusions in a really small diamond than in a 9mm whopper.
the bottom line is, the best cut diamonds will hide what their mediocre cut counterparts can''t. after that, it''s all about what you ''need'' the stone to be.

 

[jddiamond]

I''m even more confused. I put a GIA diamond, VG cut grade into the calculator and got a TIC of 1.2, better than some of the EX cut grades I''ve seen. I guess the question is, what is important in a stone for lay people and what is not. Do I really need a EX cut grade, polish, symm, etc. Agghhhh......

 

[belle]

Date: 11/8/2007 8:12:26 PM
Author: jddiamond
I''m even more confused. I put a GIA diamond, VG cut grade into the calculator and got a TIC of 1.2, better than some of the EX cut grades I''ve seen. I guess the question is, what is important in a stone for lay people and what is not. Do I really need a EX cut grade, polish, symm, etc. Agghhhh......

not surprising! the gia cut grade of ''excellent'' is misleading. there are several (lengthy!) threads out there about this. suffice it to say that there can actually be gia ''very good'' graded stones that appear better than some excellents.

i have one!
so, to answer your question, no, you don''t need a gia ex. keep using the hca and look for stones that aren''t at the extremes (around 1.0 is a nice middle ground) and look for a nice idealscope image. it doesn''t have to be excruciatingly perfect, just the average look that the regular vendors stock.

you''ll be fine

 

[:)]

Ditto what Belle said! I would recommend that you go to a nearby jeweler that carries GIA and AGS stones to check your color tolerances (GIA and AGS b/c they are the most consistent in the US) - that will help you determine how low you can go. Some people can go much much lower and be extremely happy, others are extremely sensitive and cannot go even to an H. FWIW, Tiffany''s does go as low as I on their stones. As Belle mentioned the bigger the stone the easier to see color (esp in the >2 carat range), and having a well cut stone helps somewhat to hide color. Also many have eye clean SI1, SI2, and in rare instances even I1 stones. It is very dependent on the stone and the person - although a stone may be completely eye clean at SI2, some people need the ''mind cleanliness'' of a VS or VVS stone. It is very individual. I personally don''t mind it if I cannot see it without a loupe, others it bothers very very much. HTH!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

In below 1ct you may get away with SI1
In above 2ct you should set G as the minimum color

 

[fansynancy]

In below 1ct you may get away with SI1
In above 2ct you should set G as the minimum color

Uh oh. I just bought an eye clean I colored stone that the appraiser said is an SI 1. 2 appraisers loved it and so did I, but there is always that return/upgrade policy. Tick. . .Tick. . .Tick . . . 72 hours left on that!!!

Nancy

 

[MrNyceGuy]

Date: 11/9/2007 7:49:07 AM
Author: fansynancy
In below 1ct you may get away with SI1

In above 2ct you should set G as the minimum color


Uh oh. I just bought an eye clean I colored stone that the appraiser said is an SI 1. 2 appraisers loved it and so did I, but there is always that return/upgrade policy. Tick. . .Tick. . .Tick . . . 72 hours left on that!!!


Nancy

Whoa whoa whoa..... first of all the advice you quoted above is only that: ADVICE. Several people on this board have purchased eye clean 2ct+ stones that are I or J in color and SI1 to SI2. They are GORGEOUS! Additionally, I''ve just had Whiteflash send a 2.6 ct H SI2 (AGS graded) to a local appraiser and upon seeing it I was stunned at it''s clarity and beauty. I think that most of the experts here on PS, whom I''ve learned from, would say that CUT is more important than the two factors you''re considering because a well cut diamond could hide inclusions as well as color. Furthermore, if you''ve already seen it and like it then who cares what anyone else says! I say go for it if you like it. If you''re looking for some reassurance these links should do it for you:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/handshots-everybody.66656/

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/j-color-stones-in-platinum.24731/

Let us know what you decide and post some pics if you can! Hope this helps.

 

[Beacon]

I don''t necessarily agree with the limitations, but Garry''s idea is correct in general: bigger stones shows their flaws more easily.

That much said, I have an SI1 2.57 and you cannot see a thing in it w.o a loupe. It''s an unusual one though, two appraisers thought it should be VS2. The vast majority of 2ct SI1s I have seen have "something" you can see with the unaided eye if you look long enuf and from enuf angles.

So, if your stone size is smaller and you are going with an Ideal cut RB, yes, you could drop to an I color, SI1 and probably get a stone that is just lovely. It''s important that you compare the higher/lower clarities and colors to make your own choice.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 11/9/2007 2:43:45 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
In below 1ct you may get away with SI1
In above 2ct you should set G as the minimum color

Oh boy, there goes Garry scaring the poor newbies again!!!

Well... as the proud and happy owner of a KILLER AGS-0 2.36 RB J/SI2 -- obviously, I have a totally different opinion on this than Sir Garry. My diamond is extremely *white* (no "yellow" at ALL) and totally eyeclean, even at close scrutiny. Not all SI stones are created equal, true, and as stone size goes up, it probably does get even "trickier", but eyeclean SI stones (even LARGER ones) ARE out there.

And as for the color THANG... when graded by a reputable lab, I think that well-cut stones over 2 carat in colors H and below can be blindingly gorgeous. And believe me, there's plenty of proof of this right here on these boards!

BTW, here's a photo of my little bauble:

 

[fansynancy]

OMG Lynn your ring is so gorgeous. I''ve seen it before but somehow that does not take away from the impact when I see it now. I am salivating

! And thanks for keeping the killjoys at bay. I think I''ll just have you pick out all of my jewelry from now on.

Nancy

 

[Kay]

Date: 11/8/2007 8:29:47 PM
Author:
Ditto what Belle said! I would recommend that you go to a nearby jeweler that carries GIA and AGS stones to check your color tolerances (GIA and AGS b/c they are the most consistent in the US) - that will help you determine how low you can go. Some people can go much much lower and be extremely happy, others are extremely sensitive and cannot go even to an H. FWIW, Tiffany''s does go as low as I on their stones. As Belle mentioned the bigger the stone the easier to see color (esp in the >2 carat range), and having a well cut stone helps somewhat to hide color. Also many have eye clean SI1, SI2, and in rare instances even I1 stones. It is very dependent on the stone and the person - although a stone may be completely eye clean at SI2, some people need the ''mind cleanliness'' of a VS or VVS stone. It is very individual. I personally don''t mind it if I cannot see it without a loupe, others it bothers very very much. HTH!

I agree, you need to look at some stones in real life to see what your eye prefers. I am very color sensitive, and can''t go past G even in a diamond with super ideal cut. I like icy white, and don''t want to see any hint of "warmth" in my stone, at least for an e-ring. Other people are very happy with I, J or even lower.

I am all about putting my money where I can see it, so I will pay for high color, but don''t want to pay for a higher clarity grade than an eye-clean SI-1 because I can''t see the difference w/o a loupe. I definitely would not pay for higher clarity than VS2.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 11/9/2007 4:32:32 PM
Author: fansynancy
OMG Lynn your ring is so gorgeous. I've seen it before but somehow that does not take away from the impact when I see it now. I am salivating

! And thanks for keeping the killjoys at bay. I think I'll just have you pick out all of my jewelry from now on.

Nancy

Awwww, thanks Nancy! You made my day.

And believe me, I'd be HAPPY to pick out all your jewelry from now on... I am *G-O-O-D* at spending other people's $$$$ !!!

PS HAVE NO DOUBTS ABOUT YOUR NEW STONE! It is TDF

and the only possible little thing about it that I wish was different is... I wish it was MINE!!!

 

[DiamondExpert]

It all comes down to what YOU see and what YOU feel!