What is she thinking? HELP!

[drwranger7]

I (24) have been dating my girlfriend (23) for nearly 3 1/2 years. Our relationship has been wonderful. Everyone thinks we are the perfect couple. We have talked about marriage, details of our wedding, shared thoughts and ideas on our future and everything has been great. She jokes with me saying, "I''d get married if someone would ask me already." We are involved in a long distance relationship, and she knows I want to live together before getting engaged. Two weeks ago she explained to me that she wanted to split up so she could be on her own and grow. She wants to date other people to find out if we are truly meant to be together. Needless to say, this is killing me. I was shopping for a ring the weekend before this bomb went off and I''m having a difficult time understanding what is going on. Is she scared of making a lifelong committment? Why does she need to grow on her own instead of with me? I''m just looking for some thoughts to help ease my mind. Thanks.

 

[magna2]

drwranger7,

So you got the "it is not you, it's me...) speech. First of all, a long distance relationship is hard to maintain. BTW you did not mention how far in distance and the frequency that you two get together nor how. It surprises me that you were able to maintain the relationship for 3 1/2 years. It is obvious she has differnt goals in life than yours.

She may have seen the realtionship as a dead end relationship that is going nowhere fast. I do not beleive she is afraid of a lifelong commitment as you have alluded to but rather that she wants a lifelong commitment and feels that you are just stringing her along. She has dropped hints and you have not picked up on it. The relationship set-up may have been wonderful for you but clearly it was not with her.

She wants to get marry but you stated that you wanted to live together first before getting married. What is up with that???

Trying to get the milk for free without buying the cow??? [Didn't mean to degenerate to something so crude] She sort of gave you an ultimatum awhile back with the hints and in her mind you did not provide the proper response.

Saying that she wants to be by herself in order to grow is her tactful way of saying "adios". Now the question is whether thisn is killing you because you got dumped or that you really love this girl is only something that you can answer after some deep introspective soul searching. If you do love her, can you win her back??? Well, that depends on whether you had burnt any bridges when she stated that she wanted to part ways. Did you go into a tirate or said anything that you've come to regret?

If you indeed do love her, have a heart to heart chat with her in a non-confrontational manner to see what her perceived problems are. If it is something that can be worked out, only having open communication can achieve the desire goal. And if it doesn't work out, note that time heals all wounds.

Hard to psychoanalyse this over the internet. Best wishes.

 

[aljdewey]

Ditto.....I dont' think she's afraid of commitment (or else she wouldn't keep saying 'I'd get married if someone would ask me already.' ).....I think she's afraid it's not on the horizon with you....that you'll never make the next steps.

You've said you want to live together prior to engagement (forget the hooey about the cow comment....that's bunk. There are several solid reasons to live together first). Have you both ever discussed a time frame when you expect to do this? Or is she in the dark, waiting for you to finally announce ..."I'm ready to move in together"?

My point is: you're saying you want marriage with her, etc. but are you following that up with action? Do you have a mutual idea of when you want to move in together and how long after that you expect engagement to come?

I suspect she's either 1) feeling that the relationship won't move toward permanency, and is cutting her losses, or 2) perhaps she has really determined that her wants have changed and she wants to see other people.

The only way to really know what she's thinking? Don't ask us, ask her! If you cannot communicate with her now, that doesn't bode well for a future, so no time like the present.

Good luck.

 

[Mara]

Definitely don't ask us..ask her...




But from what you noted...there could be MANY scenarios.




Maybe she feels like the LD thing isnt working out, and possibly doesn't see a future if you have stated you want to live together, but neither of you have made the move to try to consolidate your lives in order to be together.




She may also just be figuring she needs more time out in the real world, you two are very young!! I posted a few weeks back on how when I was your age I thought I had it all figured out (I'm sure that lots of older people tell you this too and you are sick of it), but now that I am 29...I feel so much different than I was at age 23 or even 26. Not that there is a 'right time' for marriage--but I definitely think if she says she feels she needs to be out on her own, she means it...for whatever reason.




Also--from a girls perspective, many times if they say its not about the guy, ITS NOT. There are the times when they are just trying to help the guy save face, but I know times where it really has been about ME and what I need to figure out for myself. It's not always about the guy and in this instance, maybe she just feels like time will tell. You really never know. But if you don't give her the time she is requesting IMO, you will both regret it later. You can't force anything to hurry along, maybe you two just waited too long to try to make the 'future' move.




Lastly, I don't necessarily agree with what the others said, she MAY be scared of committment. I used to squack like a typical girl and say the same things. Even with my fiance, I really gave him a bit of the pressure at times to get engaged. But when it came down to it really being around the time he was seriously thinking about it, I got REALLY freaked out. Be careful what you wish for type thing. Of course I talked myself down from the ledge, but marriage is a huge deal, absolutely huge....so maybe she is really stepping back and going..wow...long distance relationship, 23 years old, what am I doing here...I need some time.




Or maybe she just does want to move on , and without you.

One of the guys I gave the whole 'its not you its me' speech to....I was lying. It was totally him. I said I felt like I was too young and hadn't experienced enough out there. But really I just had decided I would never be happy with him. We broke up and moved on and within a year I'd met my now-fiance (and my ex had met his now-wife!).




Again--talk to her, not us...but hopefully armed with some of what we have said....it may be easier. If you love and respect each other, sit down and say..whats going on?




Good luck!

 

[magna2]

Mara,

You have too much wisdom for a 29 year old. I applaud you.

 

[Mara]

See all that agonizing relationship work actually paid off.

I really think things work out for the best in the end--cliche but true IMO.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Once, when I was younger,.... And madly in love with a guy who loved me but not as much,.... I asked a married friend how people get to the engaged/married place. He had a pearl of wisdom I believe to be true.

Throughout your life, you will meet any number of people you could marry and be very happy with for the rest of your life. It's a matter of timing. Both people being in the same place at the same time to say "Yes" and "I Do".

From what you wrote, it sounds like the 2 of you are not in the same frame of mind. She's dropped the hint to marry while you have just gotten to the living together prior to engagement stage.

Don't just write off the relationship without a good, honest, and open heart to heart if you really love this woman. But,.... don't be surprised if some of the thoughts shared in previous posts are the reality of the situation. Could be she WAS in the marrying place and has grown beyond that in her relationship with you.

 

[Hest88]

I'm so sorry.

The bare truth is that there's often nothing to analyze. If she's 23 and you're in a long distance relationship I'd bet this is something she's been thinking of for a long time before she finally came out and said it. One can hide a lot of one's feelings from a partner even if you are together, but one can hide even more when you are apart. Everyone has covered all the possible scenarios. I hestitate to add this one, since it's the most painful, but she also could have met someone else. (Ouch, I know. Sorry.)

However, it is my great belief that if it's not right, it's not right. You could both be saints but that doesn't mean you are meant to be together. The only consolation I can give you is that if she never returns to you you will someday look back, while hand in hand with a woman who loves you more than anything on earth, and be glad that your ex broke up with you. Hard to imagine now, but I promise you it will happen. Good luck.

 

[Mara]

I totally agree with the 'timing' notations from PQ...I firmly believe that as well. Two people may be great people, but not great for each other, or not great for each other in that point in time. Alot of times one partner is ready before the other, and the timing is just off, they are never able to connect to be on that same 'plane' where they both feel the same way and their goals are similar. That is why also some married couples 'grow apart'...really all they did was change into some sort of next stage of life, and their goals or personalities may not be the same as they used to be. The other partner could feel betrayed ('our dreams' are no longer the same) or left behind...maelstrom of emotions.




Marriage in general is very frightening. Love has no guarantees, nor does marriage. People give no guarantees. Life changes and changes you...it's a true great thing to be able to change and grow with each other and not apart. That is definitely my aspiration.

 

[canadiangrrl]

I'm sorry you're going through this. It would seem that her level of commitment to your relationship is lacking. Better to find out now than after a wedding, though. Probably cold comfort right now, huh?

Distance can be an enemy of intimacy. In a long-distance relationship, you don't have the luxury of frequent face-to-face conversations...about wants, needs, desires, etc. It's tough not to have your partner around when you're facing adversity and could really use their support. Even the little things that make a relationship thrive...like your significant other cancelling a golf game & making you a cup of tea when you're unwell...are a no-go. And it's very hard to read body language over the phone, or email. Therefore, I think that unless both people are simultaneously committed to a similar set of expectations/outcomes, and are willing to put in a great deal of effort into making the relationship succeed, a long-distance relationship is nearly impossible to navigate.

I have been in a long-distance relationship for fourteen months, and if it were not for Herculean efforts on the part of both parties to make it work, it would have faded into oblivion months ago.

If she wants space - give it to her. It's the kindest thing you can do, both for her and also for yourself.

Might be hard to see that in the short-term, though, but take heart - once you're as old as I am you might just develop the pragmatic belief that there are indeed many people in this vast world that you could happily marry.

 

[Mikesgirl]

Talk to her - tell her what you've told us. The ball is in your court. If she matters enough to you to be ring shopping, she matters enough to take the risk of final rejection. You don't want to turn around in 6 months and say, "why didn't I talk to her?" Be SURE it's over.

 

[Heyjud]

I know it sounds simple and a little bit "trite"


But things have a way of working out right.





If it's meant to be - love finds a way


and if not, it's better you know it today.





Be strong...you'll find a love that's true


The soulmate that was meant for you.





(I know...........I did, many, many, many years ago)

 

[Richard Sherwood]

One thing I've learned about this sort of situation is that it almost always works out for the best.

You need somebody that is madly in love with you, and you with her. When you find that person, this one will be a dim memory in your past, and you'll be so glad that things worked out like they did.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 3:33:36 PM Mara wrote:


Life changes and changes you...it's a true great thing to be able to change and grow with each other and not apart. That is definitely my aspiration.

----------------

Mara, it's not an aspiration - it's a necessity. One that sometimes happens conciously & sometimes unconciously.

That said, I don't have any other pearls of wisdom to add except ditto many responses here.

Good luck. The whole thing about timing is *so* true.

I may be going against the grain here; but, I would not live with someone (who I wanted to marry)without a commitment (i.e. a ring on my finger). And if someone said to me "I want to live together before I get married" - what I hear is "I don't know if you are the one; but, let's give it a whirl". I may catch heat for that - but also offer a different perpective.

 

[TheDiamondangel]

I'm going to answer you as if I were answering my cousin or a younger brother, so don't take offense. Here goes:

You're only 24 years old. She's 23. You've been in a long distance relationship for 3.5 years, which to me says a college sweetheart. She's said she would marry if someone would only ask...that was a major hint-hint. But you want to live in sin (don't worry, I've been there, done that) rather than make the major commitment. Good move, bad move. This answer lets her know that you want to be with her, but aren't ready for the heavy commitment. She may have stars in her eyes when thinking of a wedding. Too many women idealize the whole engagement/wedding package (getting a ring, the white dress, lots of flowers, big party, lots of attention, etc...), but they don't really give enough thought to life after the honeymoon. So, if you being not quite ready for the lifelong commitment scared her off, good riddance. If you date other people (which she probably is doing already, no offense), and it doesn't work out for the two of you as a couple, you are better off. Personally, I think it should be a law that men under age 30 are not allowed to marry because you don't really know who you are or what your goals in life are until that age (there are exceptions to that, but I haven't seen too many).

It wouldn't be fair of me to say this to you without giving you a glimpse into my own personal life. My husband and I were post high school sweethearts. We lived together for 3.5 years in our late teens/early 20's. But he wasn't mature enough to handle the day-to-day reality, and honestly neither was I. Fastforward past marrying other people and getting divorced, we married 15 years after our first kiss. Sometimes people DO need to find their own way in life before they can make that permanent commitment. If it is meant to be, it will happen.

I wish you the best.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Eeeewwww Diamond! Good personal story!

Some couples do find each other, drift apart, and rediscover each other to live happily ever after.

 

[drwranger7]

Thanks for the input. I thought it would be wise to supply you with some additional information and see if that changes anyone's opinions. Our long distance relationship is about a 2hr drive. We see each other nearly every weekend. We had our heart to heart after I had time to gather my thoughts and she tells me there is no one else right now and that my wanting to live together before we got married is comparable to her needing some time alone. She says this will give her a better idea of whether we are right for each other. This idea of being separated came about no more than 2 weeks before we split. I can only go by what she is telling me, but she is not the kind of person to lie although she does not like confrontations.

There is no doubt in my mind she's the one. Our plan was to move in together sometime around february '04. My job is taking my to D.C. and she was going to join me after getting some work experience and hopefully a reference from her job. I figured by June, which would have been our 4 year anniversary, we would have been engaged.

I'm doing my best to give her the space she needs. I'm afraid that i'll give her too much space and she'll just move on even if feelings still linger. Time will tell, but I'd rather know now. Hope this explains a little more.

 

[Hest88]

----------------
I'm doing my best to give her the space she needs. I'm afraid that i'll give her too much space and she'll just move on even if feelings still linger.----------------

That's impossible. Really. If you keep in touch enough to reassure her that you'd do anything to make her happy, she will not leave you if she really loves you and is sure you're the one. The only way she'll do that is if this is really an excuse to leave you without confronting you directly. Just hang on, check in with her every so often, and see what happens.

 

[canadiangrrl]

It's normal to for feelings to linger after ending any relationship. But lingering feelings are not a foundation on which to build a relationship.

I've said this before on this forum - why do you want to marry someone who doesn't want to marry you? Relationships can be difficult enough to navigate over the long haul when two people really want it to work. When one party is only halfway committed, it's nearly impossible make a go of it.

She doesn't want to be with you right now. You want her for the rest of your life. You're at cross-purposes here. Will her feelings change? Maybe, maybe not. But she's asking you to give her space - respect her wishes if you love her as much as you say you do. If she truly believes that you're the one for her, she'll be back. Of course, by that time, you might have met someone who wants you with their whole heart. And that, my friend, is the chick you wanna marry.

 

[magna2]

drwranger7,

I am glad to hear that you have had a heart to heart chat with your girl friend. At least now you have a better understanding of her thoughts.

I still get the feeling that she is not sure whether you are committed to her. Again, it sounds like that she raised the issue of you wanting to live together before marriage. Not knowing your girl friend and not being her, I can only guess what is going through her mind - and am probably off the mark - but; I think she sees it as you not being committed to her. You may be totally in love with her at this point and you might have your reasons for wanting to live together prior to marriage like a practice marriage. However, such arrangements have no permanency. Your message to her is basically that you love her but you are not sure she is the one so you want to live together first to see how well it goes. But live together for how long???

And to top it off, you want her to drop her life's comforts and move to some strange city where she probably knows no one. She'll be totally dependent upon you in the new environment because her life lines/roots are not where you are asking her to move to. There are many causes for realtionships to falter and just living together makes it that much easier to go separate ways when couples find themselves in disagreement on issues. There is no security for her and she really has no idea where she stands with you. It is a big leap of faith to ask of any one. Hence the doubts in her mind regarding your relationship.

It is best to give her the space she needs but do keep in contact with her. Let her know she is the one for you but don't ask her to move to D.C. with you unless you've already proposed. I, like many folks that I know, have lived with their wives prior to marriage but it was only after we were engaged. And I too had a long distance realtionship and had asked my then future-wife to move from NYC to corn country in the middle of the US (Belleville, IL). Would she have giving up her career to move to live with me without some assurance that I see her as the "one" - I think not!

Hopefully this will give you a little bit more insight and help you determine what your next step should be. Both of you are young and do need to assess you current relationship so stop seeking the immediate gratification/answer. Relationships are build over time so don't feel you need to know now. Again, keep in contact with her and when you have decided that she is person for you, ask for her hand in marraiage first before broaching the idea of her moving in with you.

 

[homerj]

Hello,

I'd like to first say that I am sorry for what you are going through right now. I am sure all of us have gone through it as well and have come out of it stronger and wiser. I wish all the best but before that your last comment, "I'm afraid that i'll give her too much space and she'll just move on" made me think of a saying:

"Imagine a relationship as a handful of sand, if you keep you hand open the sand will remain in your palm. If you close your hand too tightly the sand will slip through your finger and you will have it no longer"

Try and be patient and if it was meant to be it will all work out in the end. I once thought I lost my soul mate but sure enough my real soul mate came along. If you like music listen to the song by Garth Brooks called "Unanswered Prayers".

Ok enough of that, time for me to be me again.

D'oh

Homerj

 

[fire&ice]

We really are not privy to the intricacies of your relationship; so, we can only suppose.

I think one of two things are going on.

She doesn't believe you are truly committed in the terms that Magna outlined above.

She really is questioning the effort to maintain a l/d & the relationship as it is - for whatever reason that may be (not ruling out above).

I do know of one instance I can relate. Guy draged his feet on a proposal. Lady hung around in a town that did not have her dream job. Getting tired of the arrangement, she found a more suitable job in a new city. She moved away. Guy became nervous & missed her. Guy proposed w/ stunning ring. Girl said no - not out of spite - just moved on the "gesture" was empty as she felt it was "selfish" on his part. They are a done deal - over.

And of course it all goes back to timing.

 

[Mikesgirl]

No offense intended, but I would never, nor would I ever want any woman in my life (daughter, sister, friend)to change jobs and locations to live with a guy so he can see if he wants to commit. I mean, come on - she's "the one", but cohabitation has to come before the engagement? What IS that!!?? Engagement is no more written in blood than marriage these days. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, but jeeze - "come relocate and live with me so I can see if I like it enough to make it permanent"? First of all, anyone can fake you out for six months or a year. Second, lifestyle can change, who she is is something you already know. You're either in it or you're not.

There is absolutely no other contract a human being enters into where he or she expects to "try it out" before making a deposit or down payment. Can I live in your house for six months to see if I like it before I buy? How about I drive the car for six months and if I like it I'll buy it? Let me wear that ring for six months, and if I like it, I'll buy it. Yeah, women aren't commodities for purchase, but how disrespectful. An engagement ring says, "I think this is right. I want you to reserve yourself for me, and I for you. I hope we will marry." You stand to lose the price of a ring. You stand to gain the woman of your dreams. If she's not worth that financial risk, she's not the one. If you're not sure enough to say that, she's right - after 3 years, if you don't know, you are not the one. She's wise to look for the man who is sure.

 

[Mara]

I actually have to agree with MG...When my fiance told me he wanted us to live together before we did the engagement deed, I felt like that was a copout. At the time we'd been together for 2 years, been through a short breakup and really come together to make it work out because we wanted to be together.




My point to him was along the lines of, really what do you think you are going to find out about me after 2 years that you don't already know (plus he was over at my house all the time). It's not like I grow scales when you aren't here.

Living together should just confirm what he already knew...not make up his mind for him. Was that the last checkbox on the requirements card? I knew he loved me, and I was reasonably sure of the outcome, but I also wanted him to know I wasn't just going to be passive and say 'okay sure honey, on your timeline!'




Obviously we worked things out, I was patient enough...he moved in and we got engaged(actually we bought the diamond a month before he moved in, but we didn't get engaged til 2 months later!), but I recall being a bit miffed (and letting him know) that he was pulling what I saw as an 'excuse'. I definitely agree with living together before *marriage* because it helps the transition IMO to not just go blind into a new living situation after marriage, but don't think it should be a condition for engagement. You should know that you'd be willing to work through any 'living together adjustments' to be together after 2 years! What...if he didn't like the way I put the TP on the roll...it was off? Tsk..men!

BTW on random side note, I realized today that we bought our stone last November...wow how time flies!! It seems as though it hasn't even been nearly that long since I've been on Pscope.

 

[Fancy]

I am also of the camp that feels the girl should not move, change jobs, and move in with you "just to see" if marriage is in the future.

In fact, my now husband did not move in to my house until two weeks before the wedding, and only b/c his house sold and he had to. Neither one of us wanted to live together before we got married -- we had both done it, and lived through the nightmare of breaking up and separating belongings and living with the memories. This may not be the popular thing to do nowadays, but for us, it was the right thing to do.

I think she may be tired of waiting after 3 1/2 years of dating, or she may feel that if you don't know by now if you want to marry her, you'll never know.

She obviously didn't kow that you were going to propose, BEFORE she moved in with you, which may have made a big difference to her ... it would let her know that you weren't testing her out by living with her first, and that marriage was a certainty.

When you talked, did you tell her that you planned on proposing? Now isn't the time for holding back, in my opinion, I would lay it all out on the line. If she says she just wants to explore other options, I would give her distance .. if she comes back to you, and you are still there waiting for her, it was meant to be. If not, then it was not meant to be and you will both find the person of your dreams.

Good luck.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/17/2003 1:52:01 AM Mara wrote:





It's not like I grow scales when you aren't here.

HA! That's PERFECT. Laughed my head off. Sometimes, I really DO think that's what they think!




My point to him was along the lines of, really what do you think you are going to find out about me after 2 years that you don't already know (plus he was over at my house all the time).




Yeah, but I have to say that being over someone's house all the time isn't the same thing as living together. Until you live ACTUALLY live with each other, each person still has a "back-up"....a place they can retreat to when they want some alone time. And, your stuff is still YOUR stuff, and his stuff is HIS. Those things change when you get under one roof, and that can really freak some people out.




Living together should just confirm what he already knew...not make up his mind for him.




Yup, and I really think it's really more about that---the confirmation---than it is that he might find out something he doesn't already know or about making up his mind. When my BF asked me to move in, he said flat out that he wants to marry me, but he he needed to KNOW that I could be happy living with him. He realizes he can be a bit of a hermit, and this really made his first marriage miserable. It wasn't about him making up his mind----that was already done; it was about reassuring him that he could make me happy.




I agreed with the understanding that I wasn't doing it to pass time....that I viewed it as a step in the journey toward us getting married, and that he could rest assured I wouldn't be waiting around 3,4,5 years later for him to make the commitment permanent. We were both on the same page.




The truth is, some people can love each other deeply but be unable to live with each other.




I definitely agree with living together before *marriage* because it helps the transition IMO to not just go blind into a new living situation after marriage




Honestly, I really felt it was a smart move for me too. I've lived the better part of the last 20 years by myself, and I'm used to having things the way I like them. It's always an adjustment when you live with someone else, and especially a significant other.




but don't think it should be a condition for engagement.




Amen.



----------------

 

[fire&ice]

Well, again I'm different. I did not live my hubby before we married. To tell you the truth, nothing surprised me. We had little problems adjusting. We just really enjoy each others company. And, I have no problem with finding space if I want to retreat (visa-versa).

That said, I think there is some truth to the fact that some people may love each other but can not live together. I can't imagine not knowing that ahead of time. Love isn't that blind. Or maybe it is to some people.

 

[Mara]

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On 10/17/2003 10:47:16 AM aljdewey wrote:

Yeah, but I have to say that being over someone's house all the time isn't the same thing as living together. Until you live ACTUALLY live with each other, each person still has a 'back-up'....a place they can retreat to when they want some alone time. And, your stuff is still YOUR stuff, and his stuff is HIS. Those things change when you get under one roof, and that can really freak some people out.




Yes I definitely agree here....having lived with someone in the past (both of us)...we were both a little scarred by past experiences and a little skittish about making the move to do it ourselves. Almost like we were afraid that we'd find out that we COULDNT live together or somehow that ruined what we did have...very odd how the mind works. We also knew my place was small and I'd been used to having it to myself...so how would that adjustment be (it was a little tough), and also where would all his stuff go, I'd filled both bedrooms with my stuff and all the closets etc...so it was a huge decision for us. We REALLY need more room but at least we cohabitate peacefully. But my point to him like the scales remark is what do you really think you need to find out? Since we spent so much time together (he was over about 4 nights out of 7)....what did he think was going to be 'brought to light'? I knew his bad habits, he knew mine...I didn't see anything that was SO horrible it may bring us to question our relationship.




The truth is, some people can love each other deeply but be unable to live with each other.




This is true but I don't feel like it SHOULD be that way. If you really love someone and are in love...you MAKE it work. Finding people you love and want to marry is hard enough...make it work. CAn't say that enough

 

[Hest88]

Okay, wait a minute, I don't know if the OP is still reading, but let's not jump to the conclusion that the living together had anything to do with her decision. I'm worried that he's going to go out, blow a couple of thousand dollars on a ring, show up at her house, and have her say, "Oh, well gee thanks, but I just figured out that my goals have changed in the last three years and I just wanted to go find myself."

It's possible that the moving in thing was part of it, but in so many instances when a gal has been waiting too long she articulates that in the break-up speech. Hard for me to imagine that she would be bitter at his seeming lack of commitment and then break up with him by merely saying she wants to date other people and see if they're really right for each other.

I mean, she *is* only 23. It's completely normal for a girl to meet someone during college and then after college decide she needs some more worldly experience before settling down.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/17/2003 12:18:10 PM fire&ice wrote:


Well, again I'm different. I did not live my hubby before we married. To tell you the truth, nothing surprised me. We had little problems adjusting. We just really enjoy each others company. And, I have no problem with finding space if I want to retreat (visa-versa).

That said, I think there is some truth to the fact that some people may love each other but can not live together. I can't imagine not knowing that ahead of time. Love isn't that blind. Or maybe it is to some people.
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F&I, I respect your experience as I'm sure you respect mine.

I think it really depends on where someone is in life. Having married young, I'm sure your perspective was different. I remember not thinking quite so cautiously when I was in my early 20s and the prospect of marriage was on the horizon. It was much more thought-provoking being close to 40.

Perhaps you're just equipped with better adjustment skills than others are. Some people really do struggle with how to find "space", and some really do struggle with adjustment. I thought I'd find it harder to accommodate another person at my age now, being more set in my ways, but I've actually learned that I have more patience for the little things now than I did when I was younger.

A last note: I think a lot of one's attitudes depends on the times they live in, too. It was certainly still less acceptable to live together 20-25 years ago then it was now. 40 years ago, it was unthinkable, and girls who did so were assumed to be of questionable character.

I really think it's an individual choice.....but I do think that whatever the agreement (marriage prior to cohabitation, living together once engaged, or living together before engaged), the most important thing is for both parties to communicate their desires and expectations clearly and KEEP talking.

Oh, and Hest....sorry if it seems as though this has turned into a commentary on living together. No one is assuming that was THE problem for this guy's girl...it was suggested as a possibility, and side discussions about the topic grew from there.