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What is a "GIA Gemologist"

Rockdiamond

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My understanding is “GIA Gemologist” - sans Graduate - was added to overcome ESL/ETL barriers (English as second/third language) - with emphasis on China’s growing consumer base. A two-word phrase was more suitable than three for ESL client bases accustomed to alphabets composed of symbols, rather than western characters.
There was another thread that kind of got "jacked" regarding this discussion- I figured I'd start it over here.
On GIA's list of approved terminology for someone who's earned a GIA GG is the term
"GIA Gemologist"
My feeling is that the term, when used by a seller, is purposefully misleading.
What do we call a Gemologist who actually works for GIA?
How would an unsuspecting consumer know that the seller does not actually have GIA-affiliated personnel working there?
John's explanation is above- and I have no reason to doubt it. Still, it got me thinking ( dangerous, I know) .....

I'm no xenophobe.....but....
This just seems ....wrong from a philosophical perspective..


I'm all for broadening the base of diamond lovers.
China could easily surpass the US as the main market for diamonds ( if they have not already)
But GIA is an American company- it's in their name! GIA
For that reason, EFL client base should take priority in GIA's English language guidance IMO.
The alternative, ( and what we're actually looking at)- is language that is deceptive in English, done to assist a tiny percentage of ESL consumers. I doubt that there's a huge percentage of people in China who can read English.....
I contend that GIA USA should eliminate the acceptance of the phrase "GIA Gemologist" to be used to describe someone who's earned a GG. The terms "GIA trained Gemologist" or "GIA accredited Gemologist" leave no room for doubt.
Do you agree?
 

DejaWiz

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John's comment about ESL/ETL got me thinking: if GIA wants to remain as a trusted yet impartial provider of gemstone grading and gemological curriculum, not just in the USA/NA but across the globe, then they would probably want to keep things universally uniform across all of their campus, lab, and research locations:

 

Rockdiamond

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if GIA wants to remain as a trusted yet impartial provider of gemstone grading and gemological curriculum, not just in the USA/NA but across the globe, then they would probably want to keep things universally uniform across all of their campus, lab, and research locations:

I respectfully disagree...if GIA wants to offer its services in different countries, it needs to develop regional-specific terminology.
Or do we only want English-speaking Chinese people to trust GIA?
 

DejaWiz

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I respectfully disagree...if GIA wants to offer its services in different countries, it needs to develop regional-specific terminology.
Or do we only want English-speaking Chinese people to trust GIA?

I see your viewpoint and respect it. There may be bigger forces at play, such as uniformed standards to encompass their global business strategy to protect their reputation and maintain trustworthiness in the face of competing labs common in other regions.
 

Rockdiamond

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I suppose we could compare to Air traffic control. It’s done in English by and large.
Standardization is essential in that regard.
But this seems to be the opposite to me. To grow the interest in diamonds, and the diamond business itself , it seems essential to speak in a language that the majority of the people understand.
Simplified terms may help in that regard. Yet this sis a case where a simplified term truly clouds the issue for English speakers.
 

flyingpig

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If "GIA Gemologist" is not allowed, "GIA Graduate Gemologist" and "GIA G.G" should not be allowed, too, as it can mean "Graduate Gemologist/G.G working for GIA".

GIA Gemologist is just a simplified version of GIA Graduate Gemologist, without Graduate. I think it is acceptable, though it is not perfect.

Nobody is going to use "GIA trained Gemologist". For worse, it can be mis-used. A person who attend GIA program for a week and drops-out can call him/herself as GIA "trained" gemologist.

"GIA accredited Gemologist" can cause even more confusion. First, "Accredited" is often used for programs and institutions. Second, when someone/something is "accredited", it often requires continuous education, reviews, membership and licensing. But, once you earn G.G, you are a G.G. If someone is a "GIA Accredited Gemologist", I expect that person's credential is reviewed by GIA, maybe, once every 5 yrs. But that is not the case with G.G.

Furthermore, it appears that GIA is really careful and specific with the terms like "certified", and "accredited"
 

Rockdiamond

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If "GIA Gemologist" is not allowed, "GIA Graduate Gemologist" and "GIA G.G" should not be allowed, too, as it can mean "Graduate Gemologist/G.G working for GIA".

I appreciate your viewpoint!!
But wouldn't that preclude using the terms "GIA" and "Gemologist" together in any way?
I totally see your point about the word "Accredited"
Personally, I very much like "GIA Graduate Gemologist"...seems to be totally clear- and easily provable.
 

voce

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I respectfully disagree...if GIA wants to offer its services in different countries, it needs to develop regional-specific terminology.
Or do we only want English-speaking Chinese people to trust GIA?

I suppose we could compare to Air traffic control. It’s done in English by and large.
Standardization is essential in that regard.
But this seems to be the opposite to me. To grow the interest in diamonds, and the diamond business itself , it seems essential to speak in a language that the majority of the people understand.
Simplified terms may help in that regard. Yet this sis a case where a simplified term truly clouds the issue for English speakers.

I agree with this perspective. GIA should establish terminology in the regional language instead of simplifying and confusing the English language terminology... which could be problematic as unethical vendors would take advantage of misinformation and misrepresent themselves. It's better service and builds better trust just to develop terminology in the local language, rather than be lazy and expect everyone to use English.

Due to political reasons, the mainland Chinese consumers are in the process of developing a bias against English-language sources of information. Not having Chinese language based terminology will be a huge detriment to business long term.
 

John Pollard

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Due to political reasons, the mainland Chinese consumers are in the process of developing a bias against English-language sources of information. Not having Chinese language based terminology will be a huge detriment to business long term.

That's an interesting reversal from a decade ago. I did a series of lecture tours at gemological conferences in Beijing, Shanghai and HK for a handful of years and was struck by this phenomenon: Chinese consumers at the time were actively seeking foreign reports, based on the notion that foreign-purchased products are inherently “better.”

It wasn't a jewelry-specific philosophy. The same people would rather purchase their Sony camera in a western airport than at home. Why? Because they felt there was a better chance the camera came from the authentic Sony factory in Japan, rather than
the Sony factory in China. This way of thinking was very common - and fueled the major success and growth of foreign labs in the Chinese jewelry sector.

Relevant to the topic: The foreign labs started schools of gemology in CN over 20 years ago. GIA and IGI are super-active on the mainland and may be graduating more students there per year than in the west.

I'm not saying that should inform labeling of gemologists GIA has "trained" (sorry FP), but it might be interesting in terms of how globalized GIA has become... GIW?
 

Rockdiamond

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Having watched for almost 40 years....the changes in the global diamond market have been stunning.
For most of my adult life, the USA was the diamond market....everyplace else was "incidental". Clearly, that aspect is rapidly evolving.

Nosotros mantenemos la calma, amigo. Oy vey.

Oy Vey is meir Pelon
 

yssie

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flyingpig

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This is all because "GIA Graduate Gemologist" can refer to a diploma, professional designation, or even profession. And it is unusual to include the issuing institution in front of a diploma or designation.

It is just a mess GIA created when they named and trademarked GRADUATE GEMOLOGIST® program. In my opinion, they should just call the program "Diploma in Gemology" and offer "GG" designation to graduates who maintain membership and continue education, just like other professional designations and governing bodies. Of course, that's not going to happen, since GIA GRADUATE GEMOLOGIST® well recognized.
 
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Garry H (Cut Nut)

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I almost feel sorry for starting this.
BUT
A GIA Gemologist is a person who knows about chemistry but has absolutely no idea about optics or physics.
On a side divesrion - does anyone know that gemology is correctly spelt gemmology. And why the extra M should not have been removed cause it aint got nothun to do with the US desire to make spullin more simplar?
 

yssie

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I almost feel sorry for starting this.
BUT
A GIA Gemologist is a person who knows about chemistry but has absolutely no idea about optics or physics.
On a side divesrion - does anyone know that gemology is correctly spelt gemmology. And why the extra M should not have been removed cause it aint got nothun to do with the US desire to make spullin more simplar?
Amen ::)
 

Rockdiamond

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I almost feel sorry for starting this.

I'm so glad you did! It's an interesting discussion, from a few standpoints.

A GIA Gemologist is a person who knows about chemistry but has absolutely no idea about optics or physics.

Or the jewelry business, or for matter, diamonds necessarily. It's not possible to truly grasp either without tons of hands of experience.
BUT...
it still is a valid degree, hard earned. It shows a degree of dedication that, in many cases has led to a far greater understanding. But not all.
Anyway, the manner in which sellers advertise people with this qualification- as it may be- that's the issue.

spullin more simplar?

fer us smarty pantz in this side of the pond.....how about grammmer....
your right in you're assumptions.....
 

John Pollard

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...I hope my good-natured jest was taken in that spirit...

But of course, monsieur. I keep my head and my BMI in the same condition - neat and trim. Only one requires effort.

Your post inspires me to post a reminder about our inaugural "In The Loupe" webinar this Tuesday, with my esteemed guest Rob Bates.

It should be a brilliant session. :cool2:

in-the-loupe-graphic.jpg
 

denverappraiser

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“Graduate Gemologist” is a specific diploma offered by GIA. They also have a Gemologist diploma. It’s similar but slightly different (It’s a prerequisite to the GG). There are quite a few alternative paths to the word gemologist or gemmologist. GIA graduate is another abused term that can lead to confusion. GIA-graduate Gemologist may mean something else entirely.
 

Rockdiamond

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There's another side to this as well....
Speaking as someone who has never attended GIA.....
From what I understand, students need to grade 24 diamonds to earn a GG (please correct me if I'm wrong...)
That's not a lot of diamonds.

My point is that earning a GIA GG is really the first step in a very complex education which must be done at a practical level.
@denverappraiser ...I'd bet a large percentage of the skill you use every day were developed outside a GIA classroom.

And the main point- deceptive use of language....that's going on.....and it's a disservice to consumers.
 

DejaWiz

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On a somewhat related sidenote: anyone have any recommendations for diamond/gemology books? I'm considering getting my library expanded, then possibly pursue some kind of gemology curriculum.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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On a somewhat related sidenote: anyone have any recommendations for diamond/gemology books? I'm considering getting my library expanded, then possibly pursue some kind of gemology curriculum.

There are lots. Google and report back ones you are attracted to.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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On a weekend side note - Gemmology classically has two M's. The word is derived from the Latin word "gemma" meaning gem, and the Greek "logos".
And Latin and Greek are indeed THE Classical languages upon which the term classical is also derived.
So all you geMMstone lovers ;)2
 

cflutist

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Gemologist (GIA) is the diploma I earned by completing the following GIA courses via Distance Education and passing a comprehensive final:
Diamonds
Diamond Grading (they mailed diamonds for me to plot and grade)
Colored Stones
Colored Stones Grading
Gem Identification (including the dreaded 20-stone final, misidentify one, and you fail).

To get my GG, I would need to go back and do the lab classes but not repeat the comprehensive final. I did it all for fun at the time anyway.

20190705_205657.jpg
 

Modified Brilliant

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Gemologist (GIA) is the diploma I earned by completing the following GIA courses via Distance Education and passing a comprehensive final:
Diamonds
Diamond Grading (they mailed diamonds for me to plot and grade)
Colored Stones
Colored Stones Grading
Gem Identification (including the dreaded 20-stone final, misidentify one, and you fail).

To get my GG, I would need to go back and do the lab classes but not repeat the comprehensive final. I did it all for fun at the time anyway.

20190705_205657.jpg

Cheryl, I have one of those also, mid 1980's plus my Graduate Gemologist Diploma the same year both signed by Glen Nord. I guess that makes me a "Gemologist Graduate Gemologist."
 
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