What Do You Think of This? Warped?! (And Why Does GIA & Sarin Differ?)

[dimsummy]

Hi All,

Can you please let me know what you think of this diamond?

Certified: GIA
Shape/Cut: Round Brilliant
Weight: 0.74
Measurements: 5.77 - 5.82 x 3.60 mm
Color: F
Clarity: VS1
Fluoresence : None
Polish : Excellent
Symmetry : VERY GOOD

GIA Proportions:
Depth : 62.1%
Table : 56%
Culet : none
Girdle : Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted

From the Jeweler''s Sarin Report:
Diameter: 5.79 (5.77 - 5.82)
Crown Angle: 34.3
Crown Height: 15.2%
Pavil Angle: 40.6
Pavil Depth: 42.5%
Cutlet: 0.7%
Table Size: 55.3%
Total Depth: 62.0%
Girdle Thick. %: 1.2 - 1.9

1. Why does the Sarin report''s table & depth differ slightly from the GIA report? How could the GIA report say that the cutlet was "none" when the Sarin reports 0.7%? ]

2. I submitted the information to another website and they said that a reasonable asking price was @$2,000 (MUCH lower than the jeweler''s asking price or anything on Pricescope). I called them for details and they said that it was "warped"!

(This was before I found you wonderful people, did some searching, and am now leery of that place. Is their advice about a VSS clarity diamond changing to VS over time true?)

3. The Holloway Cut Advisor had a score of 0.8. It''s not as big as we hoped but it was the best we''ve seen so far and still within our budget (@$3K).

Thanks for your help!

 

[rbjd]

Here's some quick thoughts on your questions:

1) The diamond seems a little deeper than I'd prefer (but still within "ideal" range). I'd also prefer Excellent symmetry.

2) GIA lists "none" for culet when it's under a certain number. I can't recall that number off-hand but .7% is "NONE" per GIA standards. Also, the Sarin dimensions aren't that far off. The diameter and depth ratings are basically the same and GIA rounds up to Table % so if the table is really 55.5% GIA will list it as 56%. Also, some Sarin machines aren't as accurate or aren't calibrated well. It looks like they match pretty well to me. The GIA report is probably accurate.

3) Seems to me the quality of stone you are looking for (3/4 carat, F, VS1, ideal cut round brilliant) is in the neighborhood of $3000 to $4000. I'd be shocked if you could get a truly ideal cut with those specs for $2000.

4) GoodOldGold has a page on their site about "warped" diamonds in the cut section (one of the last pages). The people telling you the diamond is warped are probably trying to swindle you.

5) A VVS diamond will turn VS over time???!!! Yeah, maybe if you drill it and add inclusions intentionally. I suppose you could chip it or scratch it or something, but to suggest that it will happen naturally is ridiculous.

6) The LOWER the number on the HCA the better. When I ran the numbers you listed it came out .7, which is about as good as I've seen lately. When you find a diamond with a better HCA you let me know, maybe I'll buy it. Keep in mind though, the HCA can't take MANY factors (like minor facet dimensions) into account and really is just a theoretical mathematical model based on limited criteria. The actual diamond may or may not perform that well. (Holloway may disagree, but there have been many examples to show that any given diamond may be well off the mark on its HCA score).

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

----------------
On 4/27/2003 12:20:14 PM dimsummy wrote:
Hi All,

Can you please let me know what you think of this diamond?

Certified: GIA
Shape/Cut: Round Brilliant
Weight: 0.74
Measurements: 5.77 - 5.82 x 3.60 mm
Color: F
Clarity: VS1
Fluoresence : None
Polish : Excellent
Symmetry : VERY GOOD

GIA Proportions:
Depth : 62.1%
Table : 56%
Culet : none
Girdle : Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted

From the Jeweler's Sarin Report:
Diameter: 5.79 (5.77 - 5.82)
Crown Angle: 34.3
Crown Height: 15.2%
Pavil Angle: 40.6
Pavil Depth: 42.5%
Cutlet: 0.7%
Table Size: 55.3%
Total Depth: 62.0%
Girdle Thick. %: 1.2 - 1.9

1. Why does the Sarin report's table & depth differ slightly from the GIA report? How could the GIA report say that the cutlet was "none" when the Sarin reports 0.7%? ]

[/url]

It outlines some answers to the very same question you are inquiring about....

Hope this helps-

Josh Rioux
Sitka, Alaska

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Hiya Dimsum. Whoever said that this diamond was only worth $2000 was a schmuck. And it's not "warped". There's really no such characteristic in regards to diamonds.

This should be a very nicely performing stone, and a real bargain at $3000.

 

[fire&ice]

Warped? Oh dear, you must have been talking to Fred C. - the "diamond guy". Rubbish pure & simple - this guy takes the cake.

How in the world does this guy get away with this? Also, do a google search on Fred Cuellar (sp?)- see the interesting results yourself.

Good luck - the diamond you listed sounds stunning.

Under harsh circumstances, your VVS stone could become a VS stone. That sould not be the reason to go to a VS stone. The only reason for going w/ VS stone is that clarity is graded under 10x loupe. No one walks around w/ a 10x loupe attached to their stone. Some feel why pay for something they can't see under normal viewing.

 

[dimsummy]

Thank you all!

Yes, it was that Fred Cueller website. At first, I thought he was so smart and nice to check a diamond's worth. But things seemed too weird with rather extremely low suggested prices in his replies regarding 2 different diamonds. So then I called and someone (not Fred C) said no diamond depth should be more than 61%, did some calculations (too fast to follow) which proved that it was warped. How can he get away with this?

I wonder if we should call them the "Home of the Warper"?!

I'm just so glad that Pricescope and all you lovely people are here...you are the ones who are "brilliant"!

 

[Giangi]

Sounds a beautiful stone! Warped?? Lol!

 

[Mara]

0.8 HCA is EXCELLENT!!! Anything under 2.0 represents less than 5% of the diamonds for sale out there, so you are very much within that range! The price is great too, esp for a diamond pretty just a point shy of the .75c mark.

The 'warped' terminology is definitely a tradmark of Fred C. I honestly have no idea how he trains his staff, but it's pretty scary if you called them and they said a stone such as this would be warped. It's been suggested in the past here that ANY diamond not bought from him would be called warped in the world according to Fred.

Good luck and congrats. Post pix of the ring and stone when you get them!

 

[dimsummy]

-----
Post pix of the ring and stone when you get them!
-----

Hi Mara,

I certainly will! It may take a bit of time though.

First, we have to order (jeweler was nice enough to hold it). They also told us that an out-of-state check take @10 days to clear. (Note to self: check that we have enough money in bank account.)

I can see the ring in my mind...only thing is it seems to have shrunk after reading about other people's rocks...oh no!

 

[dimsummy]

I got it!

We're engaged!

It's true what you all say about "cut", it does make the diamond appear larger, especially in a platinum setting.

As promised, I just posted the pictures in the "show me the ring", "eye candy folder".

Sorry that the pictures are so blurry.

Thank you all for your advice and help!