What do you think about this diamond?

[Kthrntmpl]

Hi all,
I got an echo from Robbins Brothers, which I fell in love with. What do you all think about this ring?

I know diamonds are cheaper online, but I prefer hands on for this kind of purchase since I don’t know to much about diamonds. What do you guys think about this diamond? Did I overpay?

1.04 Carat
Round Modified Brilliant Echo Diamond
Grade H
Clarity SI2
Cut Grade Excellent
Polish very good
Symmetry very good
No fluorescence
Measuring 6.39-6.47 x 4.03 mm
Slightly thick to thick faceted
Table is 56%
Paid: 6895.00
IGI Certified

Thanks!

 

[tkyasx78]

Have you seen it in person? Do you love it and are you happy with it? 6800 for the whole ring isnt bad probably as long as it is eye clean up close and you are happy!
If so then I think it is great!

When it comes to diamonds we see si2 that are pretty close to eye clean and others that are heavily included. Each person is different! If you are happy that is all that matters in the end.
Be sure and post pictures in the smtb forum! We love seeing pretty rings!

 

[LaylaR]

Is an IGI diamond the best value for a buyer's budget (in general): No.

I would focus on value instead of cost.

And in general, an inexperienced buyer in a showroom under the special lights jewelers have is normally not going to make the best decision for their budget unless they've done their research.

Please post depth, crown and pavillion so the posters can help you better.

 

[RetroTreeGal]

I wonder if the Echo branded cut would follow the same angle rules as a 58 facet round brilliant, though.

The concert i have is how oblong you’re stone is...but I guess that accounts for the very good symmetry rating instead of excellent.

 

[Gussie]

A 1.012 super ideal H, Vs2 from whiteflash is listed for $6975.

 

[Kthrntmpl]

Is an IGI diamond the best value for a buyer's budget (in general): No.

I would focus on value instead of cost.

And in general, an inexperienced buyer in a showroom under the special lights jewelers have is normally not going to make the best decision for their budget unless they've done their research.

Please post depth, crown and pavillion so the posters can help you better.

Here you go.

 

[Katya DXB]

May I ask why you ask? Are you having second thoughts and thinking of returning/exchanging it?

 

[tkyasx78]

Are the spots almost in the center black carbon spots? Can you exchange it? Or are you looking to keep it?

 

[Kthrntmpl]

My thoughts are, I paid a lot for it and considering exchanging it for a larger less quality diamond that is bigger. My wife however is set on ‘quality, not quantity’

I feel like whoever looks at it will think I only paid half of what I paid because of the size. The ‘wow factor’ or sparkle was important to me, which is why I went with the echo.

None of the spots are visible to the eye.

I upgraded our first ring that was also purchased at RB, so I am tied to them. I know they have a reputation of overpricing, so I wanted to see what you all think.

 

[LaylaR]

In general, buyers looking for quality look for diamonds with the following characteristics.

Lab report: GIA 3X or AGS 000
Angles: (everyone has little tweaks but these are what I would stay within generally)
Table: 54-57
Depth: 60-62.3
Crown angle: 34-35.5 but 34.9 only if PA is 40.6
Pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (If GIA report I'd stick to 40.8 max)
(Lower halves 75-80, Stars 45-50, Girdle TN-MED)

Why?
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. The above criteria ensures we have angles in the right range for excellent or better light performance.

Why GIA or AGS (HRD in Europe) only? https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-grading-report Basically other labs are soft on grading. So they will grade a stone the GIA considers a J an H. So you buy based on the H grade, but the diamond is actually a J.

Is that enough? Not really.

What you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. Jewelers, whether online or in person, who care about light performance will have idealscope or ASET scopes for you to use. Alternately, you can buy your own and take it with you. They aren't expensive. I don't know who the current seller is the posters here recommend, but you can ask and they will tell you.

I can't find the PS tutorial about the ASET scope, but it operates on a similar principle to an idealscope, but is more sophisticated, not just measuring the amount of light return but the type as well. You can buy one of these too, if your preference is to buy in person.

The rest:
ON COLOR:

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. Within 2 color grades it is hard to see the difference face up. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally posters say to be conservative stay above H in a round. But MANY people have happily bought white I or even J or K diamonds when trying to eek out a little more size. It's a personal preference. There is no 'wrong' answer.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white.

I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the highest quality, shinest, whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

ON CLARITY:
Another preference, depending on your goals. If your goal is just eyeclean SI1 and VS2 are as high as you need to go with round brilliants, and you can have your vendor check the diamond for how clean it is under normal viewing conditions. VS1 and higher will always be eyeclean, but they do cost more and an eyeclean SI1 and a VS1 and an IF even will look the same to the unaided eye in normal viewing conditions.

 

[JDDN]

I feel like whoever looks at it will think I only paid half of what I paid because of the size

Hi there. I'm saying this with a light heart.....the above quote reminds me of several other analogies, eh hem. The goal here should be to buy the best cut diamond within your budget. Not everyone can afford a super ideal cut 2 carat diamond, so you do the best you possibly can with the means you have. Remember....you are buying this for your wife and she has clearly stated her wishes. She would like 'quality over quantity' so that should be your priority as I believe you aimed to fulfill by going with a smaller diamond that you felt was cut better. I can tell you.....she will be bummed out if you buy her a bigger stone that looks like dead glass. I am going to attach a snippet from a veteran on PS so you can understand just how important the cut is on how a diamond performs. And when I say 'performs' I mean how much sparkle, brilliance and fire the diamond has. A well cut diamond will appear larger than a poorly cut diamond of the same size so you would be well served to buy quality over quantity if that is what the wearer's wishes are.

A note: Certainly not everyone needs a "super ideal" cut diamond, however, there are ranges I feel that one can find a beautiful diamond for the stated budget. And there are diamonds that are outside those ranges that will not give the desired sparkle and brilliance.


"Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: https://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok-t142863.html
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.3. Crown angle 33.5-35. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-40.9 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you."

Stick to these proportions:

Table: 54-58
Crown: 34-35 (35.5 is OK with pavilion of 40.6)
Pavilion: 40.6 to 40.9 (41 is ok with crown of 34)
Depth: 59.5 to 62.3

Pricescopers will strongly recommend you do some more background reading before committing to buying a diamond (over 2 cts).

The community here are fantastic, experienced and will help you look for a beautifully cut diamond that would get the best bang for your buck. There are several jewellers with in-house stones here as well, depending on your location.

If you must buy from local jewellers, try your best to stick to the above parameters and you will be much more pleased with the results, once you leave the deceiving halogen lights that saturates any poorly cut diamond with sparkle.

 

[TreeScientist]

A 1.012 super ideal H, Vs2 from whiteflash is listed for $6975.

This is what I was going to post here before I saw your post! haha

So to the OP: Did you overpay? Yes. You overpaid a lot.

The cut is not that great, symmetry is way off, and the inclusion plot is pretty bad. A large twinning wisp running through the girdle could cause durability issues, which is probably why it was the grade-setting inclusion in an SI2-clarity diamond.

Return that diamond, stick to the advice above regarding cut parameters for selecting another stone, and, most importantly, find another jeweler. If they sold you that diamond for that price (was the $6800 just for the diamond?), I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

 

[absolutme77]

I didn’t even know about RB, I had to look them up as I am on the east coast. It looks like they have a trade-up policy which I assume is what you are trying to work with. Their diamonds page only mentions the branded diamonds they work with. I would ask them is they can call in virtual diamonds that follow LaylaRs parameters. Specifically ask for GIA or AGS certified stones. If they can call in virtual stones, post your budget and specs you are looking for here so you can go in with a few stones in mind and you will also know what they are generally going for cost-wise. If they can’t do better than IGI, you may want to cut your losses, sell the old ring on LT or DB and start over.

 

[TreeScientist]

If you wanted a larger, better stone for the same budget, here you go:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4311235

.1 carat larger, one color grade higher, eye clean SI1 clarity without any "red fag" inclusions like the stone you chose, and fits within the cut parameters frequently recommended on this site. Price is $7,000, but if you ask for the "PriceScope discount" with a James Allen rep it should knock the price down to about $6,800.

Regarding the hesitations about purchasing online, IMO they're unfounded. All of the reputable online retailers (Blue Nile, James Allen, WhiteFlash, Brian Gavin, HPD, etc.) have an unconditional 30-day return policy, so if you're unhappy with it for any reason, you can send it back no questions asked. There's absolutely no risk involved with the process (other than the risk of getting a better, larger diamond for the same price ).