...WF please respond.

[Blueman33]

Leslie or other WhiteFlash rep,

PLEASE READ MY COMMENTS ON WF THREAD (sorry, don't know how to link)

I would please like you to clarify and comment on this. Thanks.

I stated in that thread that a merchant is responsible for being reliable and that the vendors who list diamonds should HAVE ACCESS to those diamonds. While the thread was focused on WF, the comments were to ALL vendors who broker diamonds.

Vendors. Don't pass the buck, fix the problem or you, the vendor, will be seen as UNRELIABLE, not whomever you blame.

A customer of WhiteFlash tells me with my expectation that WF (and other merchants) be reliable and accountable, not to do business with WF.

Does WhiteFlash want us to take our business elsewhere because some customer who expects no accountability out of a merchant jumps to your defense because others do expect accountability from vendors, WhiteFlash included?

Here is your customer, zoobiedo's, statement:


"Blueman and original poster - you are both entitled to your opinions. Based on your experience, please don't bother to do business with Whiteflash. You will never be happy. "

READ MY POST. It state no experience, only that a vendor should be responsible and accountable. I stated that vendors need to get their act together on the stone brokering issue, and am told not to bother doing business with WF?

Your own customers tell others to go away if they expect accountability for what is advertised. I don't get it.

The expecation of accountability is not out of line in most private industry.

Please tell me we can expect more of WhiteFlash than being told, "you will never be happy" when expecting reliability in doing business, including confidence that the products advertised are accessible.

Nothing personal to any particular vendor who brokers stones, but I stand behind the bottom line, fix it or the vendors will be seen as unreliable. ALL vendors, WF and ALL others. Not personal to any particular one.

Thank you WF for your input on this issue.

p.s. I read another thread where posters referred to a 'WF bias'. I didn't get it. Now I do.

 

[icelady]

Blueman,

The following is zoobiedo's comments on Whiteflash in their entirety:

Blueman and original poster - you are both entitled to your opinions. Based on your experience, please don't bother to do business with Whiteflash. You will never be happy. I don't agree with either of you but that does not matter. As to my own opinion, Whiteflash is fantastic. No, I did not receive a one hour or one day response to all of my e-mails. I did make some phone calls to them. I even found my own stone on another site that they brought in for me. I was not disappointed in this and I was happy to do business with them. My custom made ring and the stone I purchased could not be more fabulous. Do yourself and the rest of us a favor and move on. Best of luck in finding a vendor you will be ecstatic to work with.

Lesley - you can't please everyone, as you are well aware. Fortunately, most of us appreciate your company.




______

I find it insulting of you to take a comment completely out of context to make what ever point you are trying to make.

If you have a problem with WF you need to talk to them directly, just as the original poster of the other thread should have done. Then if it is not resolved to your liking post with the facts.

 

[denverappraiser]

here is the link to the other whiteflash thread mentioned in the above post.

---------------------------------

Blueman,

Whiteflash is doing nothing wrong here.

Much of the power of pricescope comes from the ability of the sellers here to offer a very large selection and for you to compare quickly and easily. This makes it possible for the customer to be extremely specific about what they want and it forces the dealers to be extremely competitive with one another on pricing. Both of these are enormous benefits to the consumers and they are both brought about as a direct result of the virtual inventory system that you are complaining about.

This issue is not limited to WF or even to the internet dealers. Responsible dealers, including Whiteflash, are very clear about the difference between stones that they have in inventory and stones that have been offered to them but that they don’t actually have. By relaying this offer to their customers with a small markup, they are increasing your selection many fold and by reducing their own inventory costs, they can reduce the prices that they have to charge for processing the transaction. Suppliers that routinely give inaccurate or obsolete data can expect to be dropped from their list precicely because of the problems it causes. Suppliers that offer inaccurate descriptions get ditched even faster. On the other hand, suppliers that give them good information and good service are rewarded with repeat business. It’s a very self-correcting system and it actually works pretty well.

The same thing happens at your local jewelry store and the primary beneficiary is you, the consumer. It’s true that this leaves an opportunity for some inconvenience but you are not required to participate if you find this burdensome. It’s easy to avoid. When you shop at stores, either online or in person, simply ignore offers that are for goods that aren’t currently in inventory.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Given that the original title of topic was far too strongly worded, and MrB is way out of line, I vote that both these threads be removed for the misleading information implied to newbies who know little or nothing about the detail and will read only negativity.

 

[Mara]

Blue...your title on this thread is entirely inappropriate in my opinion. 'Customers say don't do business with WhiteFlash'. Because one person says YOU shouldn't do business with them...suddenly no one should? A little melodramatic?




I have worked with WhiteFlash in the past...they are a great company. YES, they do have email problems at times with things going unanswered, I have told them this before as well, and sometimes I wouldn't get responses to my emails for a day or two while I was sitting on pins n'needles wondering whats going on. But it's easy to pick up the phone and sometimes in this email and web day of age...we forget that. I would also tell them I didn't appreciate the lack of response. You can only be honest.




Working with WhiteFlash was not entirely painless for me...I am a huge customer service stickler and my husband calls me a demanding customer, but they treated me right, they respected my knowledge, they have wonderful stones, and they had what I wanted and needed. In the end everyone was happy, and I intend to use them again very soon and would do business with them in the future if they had what I wanted.




Sometimes the marriage between vendor and customer is not going to be all sunshine and roses, there are MANY different personalities out there in the world, and I would not want to deal with the public on a daily basis like these vendors do. It requires alot of patience, and understanding....especially when customers carry different ideas of what good service and business is. Sometimes the job can be thankless I'm sure.




In my opinion we have some excellent vendors on here that have wonderful stones, some of them still need to work out their service policies, not only WF but another very reputable company also tends to drag on responses or never even respond! Some are sticklers for responding within a few hours. Everyone is different. You choose who YOU deal with, don't expect vendors to tell you if you should deal with them. Maybe they don't want you as a customer.

Anyhow, my overall feel is that the other thread where WhiteFlash is called shady is one thing, that's a legitimate customer complaint that can always be discussed openly....but to call out WF AGAIN in another post just to say 'someone told me not to buy from you, what do you say?' is a little over the top. Now WF has to continue to do damage control when they could be helping customers.

 

[strmrdr]

Im one of the first ones to get in line to kick a vendor in the pants when they deserve it but that said this thread and the title are very unfair to wf.

 

[LesleyH]

Steve and Neil:

Thank you both for your comments. I have just come out of a sales training meeting and one of the topics that we discussed was the thread that has prevailed this past day. The bottom line is that the only diamonds that are guaranteed 100% available are IN STOCK items, as all Pricescope vendors will agree. This is why Whiteflash continues to augment its in stock inventory both in the A CUT ABOVE and Expert Selection areas.

Blueman - I could not be more in agreement with you in terms of the fact that we should be able to know "realtime" if a diamond that is NOT in inventory is available. We also experience frustration as do you with this and wish it could be different. You can not imagine how many times we call suppliers and are told the diamond is "on hold", "working", "we won't know for 3 days" etc.... Yes, all internet vendors have the decision to make as to whether to list virtual inventory or not. By choosing to list these virtual diamonds, we are offering a more extensive selection of diamonds to the whole world. I think it is important for the customer to understand the availability of in stock items and those that are not. The exciting part about this model is that customers are not just being offered the 5 or 6 diamonds that are in the case in the jewlery store today (as happens when one walks into a jewelry store), but the customer now has almost every diamond that is available out there at his or her fingertips.

Garry - the content herein is not a bad thing, but the titles are inflammatory. Perhaps a heading change would suffice if too many posters feel uncomfortable with your suggestion.

The following is fact. Yes, there are issues with customer service that all of us experience as we grow at a rapid rate, but thank goodness the majority of our customers are happy. Yes, there are issues with suppliers which we are constantly striving to resolve. But the bottom line is that we provide you with listings of thousands of diamonds as well as extensive education and expertise, which is a far cry from the "old school". We love hearing from all our customers and continue to welcome feedback.

LesleyH
www.whiteflash.com

 

[Jennifer5973]

I am not a WF customer but as an observer, this is situation is totally ridiculous.I posted in the infamous other thread that a customer service concern is one thing, but "shady" and such a tempest in a teapot over one customer's complaint is an absurd use of the forum.

Legitimate posts about a popular vendor's stones/responsiveness are one thing, but this has devolved into nonsense.

Might I play dime-store psychologist for just a moment, and note that the flurry might in part be rooted in the fact that WF is a pet vendor of the forum and any criticism isn't well received...? We seem to have no problem using colorful language (think "shady") about eBay vendors, albeit well deserved in most cases. Even so, a valid complaint loses credibility when things spin way out of proportion, as they have presently.

 

[reena]

----------------
On 10/13/2004 12:48:50 PM Jennifer5973 wrote:





Might I play dime-store psychologist for just a moment, and note that the flurry might in part be rooted in the fact that WF is a pet vendor of the forum and any criticism isn't well received...? We seem to have no problem using colorful language (think 'shady') about eBay vendors, albeit well deserved in most cases. Even so, a valid complaint loses credibility when things spin way out of proportion, as it has presently.

----------------

i very much agree with both of JFlo's points.

 

[Rhino]

If I may add my own input.




Blueman ... your concerns are heard but please, for a moment understand the position we are put in as retailers (and this is no attempt to pass the buck).




As business owners, people like ourselves, whiteflash, niceice, etc. happen to be business' that do indeed purchase for inventory. While most may deem this to be a normal procedure for any business, in this trade it is not really the norm ... at least with diamonds. Yes you'll find some stores that may stock a couple of 1ct stones.. a couple of 3/4ct etc. but the people I've come to know on the Internet arm of this business stock some of the most exhaustive inventories I've ever seen a place stock! I can recall almost 7 years ago when I first met Todd & Robin ... I coudln't believe what they kept in their stock. I knew that if I was going to move forward with our own Inet biz that we would also have to follow suite.




Now ... all of us have access to various wholesale databases which are exclusive to those of us in the trade. We can list those diamonds on our websites and offer a plethora of options but the sad reality here is that those lists aren't kept up to date by all the wholesalers who list their wares on it. Many times we as the vendors on the front lines are constantly running into challenges as Lesley has also stated. Either the diamond is out, or on hold, or already sold ... a number of things. I choose not to list those stones publicly but in email when I'm helping a client locate a stone we will initially email them a list of all the options we find on the database but even at that the suppliers must be called to confirm the availabilty of any particular stone and many times the answers are ... on hold, out on memo, etc. And then if it is in stock we're lucky if the supplier has the Sarin data we're looking for. Currently we only publish the inventories from one of our supplilers and update this as often as they forward us updated lists.




As long as vendors publish these lists (including myself) it is a necessary evil we must deal with. None of us like it but I like to compare it to our government. Yes there are many changes we'd all like to see and although we have many problems in our governmental system ... when you compare it to the rest around the world I wouldn't trade it for any of them. If vendors are going to list virtual inventories then they must also be prepared to deal with the shortcomings of doing this. I believe that if a vendor lets their clients know these potential pitfalls up front, and there are no surprises, that this will help the situation and the clients expectations will be on par with what our reality is. For example when I forward a client a list from our wholesale database I tell them to pick their top 5-6 stones because reality is probably half of them (or more) are not available for one reason or another.

 

[Diamondsbybree]

I agree with Gary. Delete this thread and the other one. Whiteflash should not suffer for this.

 

[strmrdr]

----------------
On 10/13/2004 12:48:50 PM Jennifer5973 wrote:


Might I play dime-store psychologist for just a moment, and note that the flurry might in part be rooted in the fact that WF is a pet vendor of the forum and any criticism isn't well received...?
----------------

Hiyas :}
I would react the same way if it was any of the vendors that help out on pricescope.
You should know by now that im grouchy when it comes to customer service. :}
When they deserve it Im one of the first to give it to them but when its overblown or they don’t deserve it I will also be one of the first to stick up for them.
While whiteflash isn’t my very favorite PS vendor they don’t deserve to get unfairly drug thru the mud. (they are however on my top 5 list)

These threads remind me of yellow journalism with inflammatory headlines with little substance to back it up.

 

[StevL]

----------------
On 10/13/2004 12:20:07 PM LesleyH wrote:


The exciting part about this model is that customers are not just being offered the 5 or 6 diamonds that are in the case in the jewlery store today (as happens when one walks into a jewelry store), but the customer now has almost every diamond that is available out there at his or her fingertips.

LesleyH
----------------

Many stores all across the country have more than five or six diamonds in stock, and most every store has access to all the same diamonds as the virtual list many online sellers use. You can sit in many stores and shop the list as well as view actual diamonds and mountings in person.

Lets not take a thread about something else and change it to slam the B&M retailers again.

 

[denverappraiser]

I agree with Garry. Spike the whole deal. This subject has been discussed at length in other threads and Whiteflash doesn't diserve to be slammed over it.

Neil

 

[LesleyH]

Steve:

It was not my intention to slam the B and M - please accept my apologies if it came accross that way

LesleyH
www.whiteflash.com

 

[Jennifer5973]

----------------
On 10/13/2004 2:48:47 PM strmrdr wrote:

----------------

Hiyas :}
I would react the same way if it was any of the vendors that help out on pricescope.
You should know by now that im grouchy when it comes to customer service. :}
When they deserve it Im one of the first to give it to them but when its overblown or they don’t deserve it I will also be one of the first to stick up for them.
While whiteflash isn’t my very favorite PS vendor they don’t deserve to get unfairly drug thru the mud. (they are however on my top 5 list)

These threads remind me of yellow journalism with inflammatory headlines with little substance to back it up.

----------------

Hello, storm...if you read my entire post, you'll see that its central thrust is that the original "shady" post and the majority of its content were inappropriate and unfair to WF.

 

[strmrdr]

----------------
On 10/13/2004 3:37:47 PM Jennifer5973 wrote:




Hello, storm...if you read my entire post, you'll see that its central thrust is that the original 'shady' post and the majority of its content were inappropriate and unfair to WF. ----------------

Sorry I just get tired of being accused of having a pet vendor to the point that I dont recomend individual diamonds anymore.
Im just tired of it....
Thats why I responded to just the last part of your post....

 

[researcher]

Both of these threads bashing WF were done in poor taste. Period. I had a terrible time getting in touch with a few of the vendors people mention as being superior in customer service, but I never slammed them. Most people don't slam the vendors they have trouble with because they know it's better to use tact. If either of these threads discussed the trouble with customer service of vendors in general, or concerns over list diamonds, I think that's fine! I also think it's fine for people to mention vendors they had difficulty with, but to put it out there in question form: "Has anyone else had a problem similar to this? If so, what should my next steps be?". I even think it's okay to discuss a problem you're having--but not to trash the vendor. If people are concerned about what is said in a post and want to avoid that company, let them PM you to get the name. It just seems so silly that the problems posted in this and the other thread regarding WF seem to be problems people may have with any vendors who sell list diamonds and have a virtual business, not with one company in particular. I guess I'm just frustrated in reading these posts because of the generalizations being made about unhappy WF customers, about WF not having good customer service. How many of the people who are complaining have actually worked with WF? How many happy customers are there as opposed to dissatisfied ones?

And on a final note, there are PS members DO have "pet" vendors if that's what you want to call them. I can tell you that I will always recommend WF to people because they offered me the best price for my stone, the most help, and the best customer service. I cannot say the same for other vendors. Although I usually post stones offered by WF, I will also state the competitors I feel have a good reputation that I've communicated with in the past. Does that make me biased? Of course. But I don't feel good recommending a company I can't stand behind. And WF is a company I can stand behind.

What's my point? It's great to have a forum where we can tell people about the trouble we've had as well as the good experiences. I would have been lost if it weren't for PS. But it would be as wrong for me to say WF is the ONLY reputable vendor as it is for people to say WF is shady and not a company to do business with. As others have stated, we all need to watch our language.

 

[aljdewey]

p.s. I read another thread where posters referred to a 'WF bias'. I didn't get it. Now I do.

NO, you really don't get it. If your reaction was to any other vendor here other than WF, *everyone* would still be stepping up to say you're out of line. If you made these comments about DCD or GOG or DI, I'd still say you're out of line.

Here are the facts: Brokered stones are available for sale through many different channels. Hence, when you consider buying brokered stones, you inherently accept that several others may be looking at the same diamond you are, and if you delay, it may be gone.

If you can't handle that concept, then you shouldn't be shopping for brokered stones from anyone, OK? It's that simple. Of course, that limits you to working with whatever is in stock, but then you won't have this problem.

Bottom line: it's not the fault of *any* vendor that you clearly don't understand the business model of brokered stones. That's not their shortcoming...it's yours.

The no-response or poor customer service issue? Yes, that is something a vendor should wear responsibility for.

 

[StevL]

Thank you LesleyH! Have a great evening!

 

[seeking_jubilee]

Are you kidding me?? That's what you had to say????