ladykemma
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well, then, what is "cheap?"
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Good question ladykemma
I would say, in my opinion, mmmmm, I have got stuck now. I was saying in winternight's post that I thought men didn't understand women's fascination with diamonds. Her fiance had previously had a lower budget but said it was okay for her to get the other more expensive stone so I would not call that cheap (this was reflecting on their income) but I was going to say in my opinion if he had the money and you wanted it and he said no, then he was being cheap. Ofcourse, if he had the money it would also depend on what other things were needed e.g. house, transport etc.
Thinking about this from your question though, I don't really know
now. The thing is I am thinking now well if they just don't seem to understand our fascination then how are they being cheap, they are just being men and practical.
If a man, and I don't know if many would do this, knows his lady wants a certain diamond and has lots of money but then when she is not there goes to another shop and gets one which looks the same but for a lot less money, or gets the dealer to put a lesser quality stone in the ring, then I think I would call that cheap? Mmmm, or is that just being devious or practical in saving money? I would call that a bit cheap.
I would say, in my opinion, mmmmm, I have got stuck now. I was saying in winternight's post that I thought men didn't understand women's fascination with diamonds. Her fiance had previously had a lower budget but said it was okay for her to get the other more expensive stone so I would not call that cheap (this was reflecting on their income) but I was going to say in my opinion if he had the money and you wanted it and he said no, then he was being cheap. Ofcourse, if he had the money it would also depend on what other things were needed e.g. house, transport etc.
Thinking about this from your question though, I don't really know
If a man, and I don't know if many would do this, knows his lady wants a certain diamond and has lots of money but then when she is not there goes to another shop and gets one which looks the same but for a lot less money, or gets the dealer to put a lesser quality stone in the ring, then I think I would call that cheap? Mmmm, or is that just being devious or practical in saving money? I would call that a bit cheap.
Cheap is not buying your GF the ring she wants because it''s too exspensive to you, and then buying yourself a big screen tv with 3 remotes! I also think the amount of thought and effort has something to do with it.
I remember when we got engaged twenty some years ago, and apparently the jewelry store person told my husband-two months salary was the rule. At the time my husband was in law school and not working, so according to that rule we were in trouble. But I did love my .30 carat! I pulled it out the other day and we just remembered how big we thought that was then..... lol
Ten years later my hubbie came home with an upgraded surprise, and now I''m at it again!
I remember when we got engaged twenty some years ago, and apparently the jewelry store person told my husband-two months salary was the rule. At the time my husband was in law school and not working, so according to that rule we were in trouble. But I did love my .30 carat! I pulled it out the other day and we just remembered how big we thought that was then..... lol
Ten years later my hubbie came home with an upgraded surprise, and now I''m at it again!
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Hmmm....
Some people are frugal: They buy high quality stuff - but only when necessary - and only in the size or quantity needed (even for themselves). This person may not see the need for a large or expensive e-ring; and that there are better uses for the money (but they will buy a quality smaller ring and stone). Some people view that as being cheap. I would disagree. Frugal is not cheap (most frugal people tend to buy things like Allen Edmunds shoes, etc, due to the long term value).
Other people are not willing to spend any but minimal money on others - but spends grandly on themselves. I veiw that as being cheap (insensitive and self centered too).
Some people buy junk quality all the time - I veiw that as being cheap. They spend more money in the long run than if they purchased a quality item up front.
Perry
Some people are frugal: They buy high quality stuff - but only when necessary - and only in the size or quantity needed (even for themselves). This person may not see the need for a large or expensive e-ring; and that there are better uses for the money (but they will buy a quality smaller ring and stone). Some people view that as being cheap. I would disagree. Frugal is not cheap (most frugal people tend to buy things like Allen Edmunds shoes, etc, due to the long term value).
Other people are not willing to spend any but minimal money on others - but spends grandly on themselves. I veiw that as being cheap (insensitive and self centered too).
Some people buy junk quality all the time - I veiw that as being cheap. They spend more money in the long run than if they purchased a quality item up front.
Perry
february2003bride
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IMO, being cheap is buying inexpensive things just to get out of spending any additional money. And pertaining to engagement rings- being cheap is doing the above knowing full well it could hurt your future wife''s feelings.
And I totally agree that there is a huge difference between cheap and frugal!
And I totally agree that there is a huge difference between cheap and frugal!
sumbride
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hmmm... Well, in this case, I think cheap is more a mindset than a price point.
Cheap would be buying the least expensive ring in the case BECAUSE it is the least expensive ring, not because it''s the perfect ring or within the budget or would make her happy. There are many many occasions when spending more isn''t better, but spending the least amount possible without putting any thought into it, that''s cheap.
Cheap would be buying the least expensive ring in the case BECAUSE it is the least expensive ring, not because it''s the perfect ring or within the budget or would make her happy. There are many many occasions when spending more isn''t better, but spending the least amount possible without putting any thought into it, that''s cheap.
KimberlyH
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My husband could have spent more on my ring than he did. Most of you may find this odd, but I don''t even know what the budget was. He told the SA and she showed me stones in his price range, I picked the one I loved most and then the setting. I know he could have spent more because I can guess how much my ring cost and I obviously know how much he makes (but it varies drastically from month to month because he runs his own business). I also know I went over budget and he was okay with that. My ring is beautiful, but not large (.74 F VSI center stone, .36 tcw side stones; wedding band is .72 tcw). It sparkles like crazy and I love it because of what it means.
Is he cheap? Not even close; he is frugal though and we are fiscally conservative in some places to pad others (for example toiletries purchased at WalMart means more money to be spent on vacations, which we take frequently).
He has always had two vehicles, a truck for his business and a sports car, he gave up the sports car so that I could quit working and go to school full time. We have both stopped spending quite a bit to make up for the fact that we''re covering two mortgages while waiting for his old house to sell because it was a priority for us to buy a house as newlyweds that was ours as opposed to his.
I want a second band for an anniversary gift that matches my wedding band, so I''m laying the groundwork. And he''s totally open to it. I started off pushing for it as a 5 year anniversary gift, I may get it sooner, I may not, but I''m sure I''lll get it because he knows it''s important to me. When we first started shopping he was uncomortable with the idea of upgrading, about a month ago (we''ve only been married for 3.5 months) he mentioned the possibility, perhaps not for 15 years or so, but it''s now conveivable to him. I''m not so sure I''ll even want it, but because he''s aware of my growing love diamonds he is bending because he understands that.
I guess my point is that it''s all about compromise. I read winternight''s post and all the responses. My situation is very obviously different than hers and it seems that PSers have given her some great advice, of course, to help her get what she wants without doubling the budget. Do I think her fiance to be is cheap? No. I just think their priorities are a bit different. And that''s okay, they just need to find middle ground.
Is he cheap? Not even close; he is frugal though and we are fiscally conservative in some places to pad others (for example toiletries purchased at WalMart means more money to be spent on vacations, which we take frequently).
He has always had two vehicles, a truck for his business and a sports car, he gave up the sports car so that I could quit working and go to school full time. We have both stopped spending quite a bit to make up for the fact that we''re covering two mortgages while waiting for his old house to sell because it was a priority for us to buy a house as newlyweds that was ours as opposed to his.
I want a second band for an anniversary gift that matches my wedding band, so I''m laying the groundwork. And he''s totally open to it. I started off pushing for it as a 5 year anniversary gift, I may get it sooner, I may not, but I''m sure I''lll get it because he knows it''s important to me. When we first started shopping he was uncomortable with the idea of upgrading, about a month ago (we''ve only been married for 3.5 months) he mentioned the possibility, perhaps not for 15 years or so, but it''s now conveivable to him. I''m not so sure I''ll even want it, but because he''s aware of my growing love diamonds he is bending because he understands that.
I guess my point is that it''s all about compromise. I read winternight''s post and all the responses. My situation is very obviously different than hers and it seems that PSers have given her some great advice, of course, to help her get what she wants without doubling the budget. Do I think her fiance to be is cheap? No. I just think their priorities are a bit different. And that''s okay, they just need to find middle ground.
Cehrabehra
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thankfully my husband *secretly* bought into the 3 month salary thing even though he really planned/hoped to get out of it for just a couple/few thou.Date: 11/15/2006 9:12:28 AM
Author: gail013
Cheap is not buying your GF the ring she wants because it''s too exspensive to you, and then buying yourself a big screen tv with 3 remotes! I also think the amount of thought and effort has something to do with it.
I remember when we got engaged twenty some years ago, and apparently the jewelry store person told my husband-two months salary was the rule. At the time my husband was in law school and not working, so according to that rule we were in trouble. But I did love my .30 carat! I pulled it out the other day and we just remembered how big we thought that was then..... lol
Ten years later my hubbie came home with an upgraded surprise, and now I''m at it again!
Cehrabehra
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on this last part I vote naahhh because these same practical men (like my husband) are fairly clueless about the quality and would assume it was like finding mustard on sale at the grocery store - or even buying generic mustard when I requested french''s. What''s the big deal over the difference? Well it''s more watery and grainy for one.... doesn''t taste the same.... but hey, he saved a quarter! woohoo!!!Date: 11/15/2006 6:26:46 AM
Author: Pyramid
Good question ladykemma
I would say, in my opinion, mmmmm, I have got stuck now. I was saying in winternight''s post that I thought men didn''t understand women''s fascination with diamonds. Her fiance had previously had a lower budget but said it was okay for her to get the other more expensive stone so I would not call that cheap (this was reflecting on their income) but I was going to say in my opinion if he had the money and you wanted it and he said no, then he was being cheap. Ofcourse, if he had the money it would also depend on what other things were needed e.g. house, transport etc.
Thinking about this from your question though, I don''t really knownow. The thing is I am thinking now well if they just don''t seem to understand our fascination then how are they being cheap, they are just being men and practical.
If a man, and I don''t know if many would do this, knows his lady wants a certain diamond and has lots of money but then when she is not there goes to another shop and gets one which looks the same but for a lot less money, or gets the dealer to put a lesser quality stone in the ring, then I think I would call that cheap? Mmmm, or is that just being devious or practical in saving money? I would call that a bit cheap.
anchor31
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A man is being cheap when he has the means to pay for a quality item for his wife but insists on a lesser quality item, even though she has indicated how important the item is to her. He''s cheap because he *refuses to try* to understand how important the item is to his wife. It''s dismissive, inconsiderate, lazy, and selfish.
Date: 11/15/2006 11:00:22 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
on this last part I vote naahhh because these same practical men (like my husband) are fairly clueless about the quality and would assume it was like finding mustard on sale at the grocery store - or even buying generic mustard when I requested french''s. What''s the big deal over the difference? Well it''s more watery and grainy for one.... doesn''t taste the same.... but hey, he saved a quarter! woohoo!!!Date: 11/15/2006 6:26:46 AM
Author: Pyramid
Good question ladykemma
I would say, in my opinion, mmmmm, I have got stuck now. I was saying in winternight''s post that I thought men didn''t understand women''s fascination with diamonds. Her fiance had previously had a lower budget but said it was okay for her to get the other more expensive stone so I would not call that cheap (this was reflecting on their income) but I was going to say in my opinion if he had the money and you wanted it and he said no, then he was being cheap. Ofcourse, if he had the money it would also depend on what other things were needed e.g. house, transport etc.
Thinking about this from your question though, I don''t really knownow. The thing is I am thinking now well if they just don''t seem to understand our fascination then how are they being cheap, they are just being men and practical.
If a man, and I don''t know if many would do this, knows his lady wants a certain diamond and has lots of money but then when she is not there goes to another shop and gets one which looks the same but for a lot less money, or gets the dealer to put a lesser quality stone in the ring, then I think I would call that cheap? Mmmm, or is that just being devious or practical in saving money? I would call that a bit cheap.
winternight
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In defense of my fiance he took me to Paris for my birthday and proposed there. So he''s not cheap, perhaps a little clueless though, i.e. taking me into Tiffany''s without setting a reasonable budget in part b/c he didn''t know how much their rings cost. I might have killed him if it were not for the after-glow of Paris.
And women can be cheap as well, I know girls who have gotten cheaper rings just for the sake of the wedding party or because they felt that their fiance shouldn''t waste the money on them - I think that''s out of insecurity.
For a guy, its hard for me to say. I think it is about if he has the money and isn''t willing to spend it on something his partner thinks is very important - that''s stingy and controlling, IMO.
And women can be cheap as well, I know girls who have gotten cheaper rings just for the sake of the wedding party or because they felt that their fiance shouldn''t waste the money on them - I think that''s out of insecurity.
For a guy, its hard for me to say. I think it is about if he has the money and isn''t willing to spend it on something his partner thinks is very important - that''s stingy and controlling, IMO.
divergrrl
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Sumbride, I think you summed it up best.
My best friend from college got the "cheap" ring from her now DH. He went out and spent 60k CASH on a new Corvette for himself, but about 1k on her wedding set. Thank God it was a pretty little set, but you had to squint to see the diamond.
For his bachelor party, he took 5 buddies on an all expenses paid trip to Cabo. She didn''t get to do anything like that (but oh I threw her a fun party & all the girls cabbed downtown & danced all night, so there!)
He is on his 4th Corvette. In the meantime, they''ve gone broke and had to downsize their home, etc. Personally, I can''t believe she puts up with this, but hey, she loves him. But I find him incredibly selfish. I mean, c''mon....its not like he was a starving student or something. He had plenty of cash (when Enron was hot...''nuff said) but chose to do the bare minimum for her while being incredibly extravagant for himself.
He also took his friends to that Richard Petty driving experience a few times...that think is like 5k per person.
She told me she loved her setting (and I do like it to, its very delicate and vintage looking, totally her) but she always wanted a 1 carat diamond. Well last year (she''s been married 5) her dad finally gave her a spare 1 carat, I2,diamond he had. It has a big black spot in it, and I''m going to take her back to the jeweler with it and have them reset it with claw prongs (it''s close to the edge) so she can flash her hand proudly. (why the jeweler didn''t cover that dang inclusion with a prong is beyond me, its totally doable!)
Anyway, that is cheap IMO.
DG
divergrrl
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winternight
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decodelighted
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nejarb
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Divergrrl: your friend''s husband isn''t just cheap, he''s a huge a-hole. what a jerk. why is she married to him?
the first time my fi ever mentioned anything about rings, he said "you should just know right now that i''m going to be very uncomfortable spending more than 15k on a ring."
i had no idea what diamond rings cost, but that sounded like alot to me!
the next time it came up (months later, after i''d moved into his apt), he said that he''d never even said that. he said "i said 5-10k, and you just got the numbers all mixed up in your head!"
well, i thought he was being cheap. i mean 10k is not a bad budget at all (esp b/c we got the stone from a distributor who his parents are friends with at cost). but when i''m already thinking 15k, b/c he said that, and i''ve sort of got an idea of what i want and everything, it was a little dissapointing.
the first time my fi ever mentioned anything about rings, he said "you should just know right now that i''m going to be very uncomfortable spending more than 15k on a ring."
i had no idea what diamond rings cost, but that sounded like alot to me!
the next time it came up (months later, after i''d moved into his apt), he said that he''d never even said that. he said "i said 5-10k, and you just got the numbers all mixed up in your head!"
well, i thought he was being cheap. i mean 10k is not a bad budget at all (esp b/c we got the stone from a distributor who his parents are friends with at cost). but when i''m already thinking 15k, b/c he said that, and i''ve sort of got an idea of what i want and everything, it was a little dissapointing.
sumbride
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divergrrl
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Trust me, they''ve been together for 12 years. Met in college. She''s beautiful, sweeet as can be (think Charlotte from Sex & the City, even looks just like that), will give you the shirt off her back, and always is there to lift you up when you are down.
Why.....this guy....none of us know. One friend told her what she thought & she was so hurt, she said "I chose him, he''s my husband, and if I love him, then my friends should respect my decision". She has a point, but I get tired of watching him hurt her and destroy her life, and I get tired of watching her allow it.
The stories I mentioned are just the tip of his a-hole iceberg, but I''d be hijacking the thread if I went on.
She''s 34 and has wanted a baby since forever & he keeps telling her "ok, go off the pill" and then when she does he says "oh I was just kidding, I don''t ever want kids".
I am never an advocate of homewrecking or infidelity at all, but sometimes my DH and I like to fantasize about which of our guy friends we should send in to rescue her and give her a stable life with kids & the love she deserves.
She endured a lot of childhood trauma (adult child of alcholic, abuse) so I think her probs run deep & that''s why she can''t leave him. I''d love for her to get counseling, and hope she will do so before it''s too late. I''m actually glad she''s not having kids with him, he''s a terrible person.
DG
Why.....this guy....none of us know. One friend told her what she thought & she was so hurt, she said "I chose him, he''s my husband, and if I love him, then my friends should respect my decision". She has a point, but I get tired of watching him hurt her and destroy her life, and I get tired of watching her allow it.
The stories I mentioned are just the tip of his a-hole iceberg, but I''d be hijacking the thread if I went on.
She''s 34 and has wanted a baby since forever & he keeps telling her "ok, go off the pill" and then when she does he says "oh I was just kidding, I don''t ever want kids".
I am never an advocate of homewrecking or infidelity at all, but sometimes my DH and I like to fantasize about which of our guy friends we should send in to rescue her and give her a stable life with kids & the love she deserves.
She endured a lot of childhood trauma (adult child of alcholic, abuse) so I think her probs run deep & that''s why she can''t leave him. I''d love for her to get counseling, and hope she will do so before it''s too late. I''m actually glad she''s not having kids with him, he''s a terrible person.
DG
sumbride
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That sounds oddly familiar... I have a friend who married the first guy she ever dated. None of us were really sure why because we just didn''t feel they were right for each other, but she was hurt when we expressed our doubts. They were married for 4 years and are divorced now! We were thrilled when HE actually decided to get divorced. She''s dating somebody new now and I told her that I''d never seen her so happy! she said, yes, THIS is what real love is! I''m glad she finally got a chance to find out. I wouldn''t have wished the heartbreak on her, but I''m glad she found a better life. We were all actually rather shocked when the divorce was announced, so hey, maybe Mr. Selfish will find a way to get out of her life eventually.
sorry for the hijack, LK!
Cheap is when he can well afford to buy A+, but chooses to buy D- because he wants to buy himself a Porsche.
Ever read The Gift of the Magi? They didn''t have to do what they did, but their selfless love for each other led her to sell her hair and him to sell his heirloom watch.
I''m not saying blow it all, baby. I''m just saying that this is probably not the best time or occasion to be overly tight.
Other times when cutting corners or being cheap can hurt more than help:
Surgery/healthcare, education for the kids & helping family. I''m sure there are tons more that I can''t think of right now!
I don''t hear of many men who say later, "Boy, I REALLY REGRET splurging on her e-ring!"
What I usually hear is, "Boy, seeing now how much joy she gets out of it... That ring more than paid for itself! SOOO WORTH IT." That''s what DH says every time he sees me admiring my sparklies.
The joy she gets from it is priceless.
Ever read The Gift of the Magi? They didn''t have to do what they did, but their selfless love for each other led her to sell her hair and him to sell his heirloom watch.
I''m not saying blow it all, baby. I''m just saying that this is probably not the best time or occasion to be overly tight.
Other times when cutting corners or being cheap can hurt more than help:
Surgery/healthcare, education for the kids & helping family. I''m sure there are tons more that I can''t think of right now!
I don''t hear of many men who say later, "Boy, I REALLY REGRET splurging on her e-ring!"
What I usually hear is, "Boy, seeing now how much joy she gets out of it... That ring more than paid for itself! SOOO WORTH IT." That''s what DH says every time he sees me admiring my sparklies.
anacgarcia
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Date: 11/15/2006 3:00:15 PM
Author: Julian
Cheap is when he can well afford to buy A+, but chooses to buy D- because he wants to buy himself a Porsche.
I don''t hear of many men who say later, ''Boy, I REALLY REGRET splurging on her e-ring!''
What I usually hear is, ''Boy, seeing now how much joy she gets out of it... That ring more than paid for itself! SOOO WORTH IT.'' That''s what DH says every time he sees me admiring my sparklies.The joy she gets from it is priceless.
That is so true Julian!! And divegrrl, wow what a jerk your friend has as "DH" I think he doesn''t deserve the D,
allycat0303
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I definitely agree with some of the stuff said.
I think cheap is buying the first ring you see for 5000$ (when she likes bigger bling that is
) and driving around in a 80,000$ car which you''ve already paid in full for (ie not people that have their house, cars mortgaged to the hilt).
Other then that, there is never a dollar amount on what I consider *cheap* if there is sentiment and sacrifice behind it, regardless of if it''s 100,000 or 100$ it''s never cheap.
I think cheap is buying the first ring you see for 5000$ (when she likes bigger bling that is
Other then that, there is never a dollar amount on what I consider *cheap* if there is sentiment and sacrifice behind it, regardless of if it''s 100,000 or 100$ it''s never cheap.
sevens one
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firebirdgold
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My fi spent about a week and a half of his pre-tax income on my e-ring, plus he was very proud that he had spent a little less than he had put aside. I don't consider this to be cheap because he put time, effort, and most of all thought into making sure he proposed to me with a beautiful ring I would love. If he had spent the same money but gotten me a typical piece of junk from the mall with no regard to my tastes or the quality of the ring, then I would have thought that was cheap! But the ring was important to him too, and he's very proud of it.
There is a cultural aspect, of course. The enviroment one is in impacts where cheap lies in the spectrum. Spending one month of salary, let alone two, on a piece of jewelry would be considered almost immorally extravagent by my fi's peers. They all make quite good money but none of them feel that money is an important thing in life and none of the wives I've met sport anything as big as a carat.
Also his mother doesn't wear much jewelry and her wedding set and anniversary ring are fairly modest. I think what their mothers have is a huge factor in what men will buy.
How much a man spends on a ring isn't a measure of how much he loves you.
ETA: While my fi's coworkers and their spouses don't drive fancy cars, there are a fair number of them with mountain bikes worth more than their wives wedding set!
There is a cultural aspect, of course. The enviroment one is in impacts where cheap lies in the spectrum. Spending one month of salary, let alone two, on a piece of jewelry would be considered almost immorally extravagent by my fi's peers. They all make quite good money but none of them feel that money is an important thing in life and none of the wives I've met sport anything as big as a carat.
Also his mother doesn't wear much jewelry and her wedding set and anniversary ring are fairly modest. I think what their mothers have is a huge factor in what men will buy.
How much a man spends on a ring isn't a measure of how much he loves you.
ETA: While my fi's coworkers and their spouses don't drive fancy cars, there are a fair number of them with mountain bikes worth more than their wives wedding set!
:)
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I have always LOVED that story!Date: 11/15/2006 3:00:15 PM
Author: Julian
Cheap is when he can well afford to buy A+, but chooses to buy D- because he wants to buy himself a Porsche.
Ever read The Gift of the Magi? They didn''t have to do what they did, but their selfless love for each other led her to sell her hair and him to sell his heirloom watch.
I''m not saying blow it all, baby. I''m just saying that this is probably not the best time or occasion to be overly tight.
Other times when cutting corners or being cheap can hurt more than help:
Surgery/healthcare, education for the kids & helping family. I''m sure there are tons more that I can''t think of right now!
I don''t hear of many men who say later, ''Boy, I REALLY REGRET splurging on her e-ring!''
What I usually hear is, ''Boy, seeing now how much joy she gets out of it... That ring more than paid for itself! SOOO WORTH IT.'' That''s what DH says every time he sees me admiring my sparklies.The joy she gets from it is priceless.
anchor31
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OMG! Is your friend''s husband my FFIL?
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