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We'll sell you a diamond...but first we want to look up your skirt.

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
9,169
There are going to be people who disagree with my take on this. So let me be explicit before I start.

THIS IS HOW I FELT.

It might not be how you feel. But - gees louise - it sure is how I felt!

I've been looking for a well matched pair of pears. I found one pear I loved on Blue Nile - but no match. So off I went to James Allen - a company I used to love but which I've used less and less since their decision not to post GIA certificates.

I found 2 I liked, and decided to buy them both. So I placed the order. Keep in mind, I've been buying diamonds from James Allen for over a decade.

I received an email confirming my order.

And then I received a second email - telling me they needed..."just a little more information."

They wanted....

A photo of my credit card.

They wanted....

A photo of my drivers license.

They wanted....

A photo of ME.

Yup. They wanted a SELFIE - of me - HOLDING my credit card and my license.

Before James Allen would sell me a diamond, they wanted a photo of my FACE.

I called them (hardly a surprise). And - equally unsurprising - I was not the first person who had complained! It was explained to me that this was in response to fraudulent activity they've experienced. The sales assistant told me it was only for loose diamonds, and only for new customers. I said - "You're looking at my record - you can see how long I've been buying diamonds from you." She told me there was a glitch in the system. But then she ALSO told me she didn't think she'd have bought something that required that process. I said to her - "I feel like James Allen is telling their customers - "Sure - we'll sell you a diamond! But first we want to take a good, long, look up your skirt." "

Nowhere in the email where they required this incredible invasion of my privacy did they assure me that my photo would be deleted-beyond-retrieval after the sale. So, yet again, as a customer, I am required to trust James Allen's integrity while they don't trust mine.

There is NO WAY I am sending that particular cocktail of my private information to a faceless website. And there is also NO WAY I will EVER AGAIN recommend this company to a newbie who comes to PriceScope looking for a diamond. People come here with questions and, most often, caution. Sometimes out and out distrust for the whole online process. What would they think of us, as a website, if we (people they don't know) refer them to a company (more people they don't know) who want photos of their license, their CC, and their FACE.

You've gotta be kidding me.
 

bright&shiny

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
636
unbelievable. And this is when we know it’s all big company transactional - no longer a relationship. Your tale of caution makes an excellent case for working with the trusted vendors with whom you can establish a relationship. Everything old becomes new again.... Thank you for sharing - I won’t forget your illustrative phrase for a long time!
 

Polabowla

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
1,862
They probably feel that since your license has your photo , you won't care
It's scary how many places nowadays want so much personal information
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
13,253
I think another poster mentioned this in a recent thread. Cant remember who, but I think the person's reaction was similar. I find it incredibly bizarre. I could understand wanting a pic of someone's CC as "proof " that they actually own the cc and didnt find the number somewhere. But the rest feels odd to me, especially when all taken together
 

winnietucker

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
2,004
Had a similar experience with JA too...

Also inquired about trading in my diamond with HPD and was told I needed to furnish proof that I owned it before they’d consider it. The SA did say they’d talk to Wink when they realized I couldn’t get that, but I haven’t heard back. Maybe there’s been a lot of fraudulent activity surrounding diamonds lately?
 

Lookinagain

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
1,378
Did they even offer you a secure, encrypted, way to provide this private, personal information? Do they have a privacy policy posted?(sorry I haven’t checked). I believe that is required and any company concerned about fraud should be asking for these items via an encrypted secure link. Not that I think they should be asking a known customer.
 

southernicetea

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2019
Messages
140
Such madness! :eek2: I don't understand why they'd make the customer jump through so many hoops when using a credit card. Afterall, if someone had stolen the credit card, there are protections against this sort of thing....
 

MamaBee

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2018
Messages
10,371
That’s absolutely horrible @mrs-b! I stopped buying from them after they hid their certificates...It looks like they are in a downward spiral of bad mistakes...I’m sorry about the pears ...but I know you will find an even better ones..Yikes!
 

MiniMinerva

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Messages
196
SO much in agreement! I love the way that you put this because these practices definitely feel like a violation. I was treated this way by Black Opal Direct after I paid for a stone, and the customer service rep was quite rude when I expressed a bit of concern regarding identity theft and inquired (politely, I might add) as to whether there was an safer alternative to sending personally identifying information and photo ID through unencrypted email. I too did not receive any assurances that my information would be treated with care and destroyed as soon as it was no longer necessary. They then told me that my reluctance clearly made me not trustworthy and cancelled my order.

I am so sorry that you had that experience, and I can definitely relate!
 

Lisa Loves Shiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
4,070
I think their requirements are very invasive. It also would worry me if I was purchasing a diamond with the plan to use their upgrade policy in the future. I would worry how bad is their financial situation at present if they cannot afford to take the risks that other diamond sellers routinely take.
 

123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
842
Yikes! Thank you for sharing. This is the first I’m hearing of this and the policy sounds absurd. Add on the fact that you’re a long-standing customer? Offensive!
 

Morenita21

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
829
There are going to be people who disagree with my take on this. So let me be explicit before I start.

THIS IS HOW I FELT.

It might not be how you feel. But - gees louise - it sure is how I felt!

I've been looking for a well matched pair of pears. I found one pear I loved on Blue Nile - but no match. So off I went to James Allen - a company I used to love but which I've used less and less since their decision not to post GIA certificates.

I found 2 I liked, and decided to buy them both. So I placed the order. Keep in mind, I've been buying diamonds from James Allen for over a decade.

I received an email confirming my order.

And then I received a second email - telling me they needed..."just a little more information."

They wanted....

A photo of my credit card.

They wanted....

A photo of my drivers license.

They wanted....

A photo of ME.

Yup. They wanted a SELFIE - of me - HOLDING my credit card and my license.

Before James Allen would sell me a diamond, they wanted a photo of my FACE.

I called them (hardly a surprise). And - equally unsurprising - I was not the first person who had complained! It was explained to me that this was in response to fraudulent activity they've experienced. The sales assistant told me it was only for loose diamonds, and only for new customers. I said - "You're looking at my record - you can see how long I've been buying diamonds from you." She told me there was a glitch in the system. But then she ALSO told me she didn't think she'd have bought something that required that process. I said to her - "I feel like James Allen is telling their customers - "Sure - we'll sell you a diamond! But first we want to take a good, long, look up your skirt." "

Nowhere in the email where they required this incredible invasion of my privacy did they assure me that my photo would be deleted-beyond-retrieval after the sale. So, yet again, as a customer, I am required to trust James Allen's integrity while they don't trust mine.

There is NO WAY I am sending that particular cocktail of my private information to a faceless website. And there is also NO WAY I will EVER AGAIN recommend this company to a newbie who comes to PriceScope looking for a diamond. People come here with questions and, most often, caution. Sometimes out and out distrust for the whole online process. What would they think of us, as a website, if we (people they don't know) refer them to a company (more people they don't know) who want photos of their license, their CC, and their FACE.

You've gotta be kidding me.

This happened to me!!! However, I purchased an espresso machine online and when I received that email I thought this is a phishing email so I called them. It was not. They said it was to recent fraud. So they too wanted a photo of my driver’s license, a picture of me and my credit card as well as a paper written with my hand writing stating I was who I said I was.
 

Lisa Loves Shiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
4,070
This happened to me!!! However, I purchased an espresso machine online and when I received that email I thought this is a phishing email so I called them. It was not. They said it was to recent fraud. So they too wanted a photo of my driver’s license, a picture of me and my credit card as well as a paper written with my hand writing stating I was who I said I was.

Did you end up purchasing it? Imagine what a hacker could do with this information if they hacked the seller's site.

They have your CC number, your phone number, email and address (which is usually required for an online sale), your driver's license, your picture and even your signature.

With this information I imagine it would be easy for an person skilled in identity theft to make a copy of your driver's license. After that it would be easy to get a copy of your birth certificate. Now they have all they need to get a replacement social security card. And now they are you. Right? Is this far fetched?
 

GliderPoss

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,787
I honestly find this astonishing and 100% NOT OK. I work for a cyber security company and let me tell you revealing this sort of data online is an open opportunity for ID theft. They should have their own cyber secure links for purchasing with cross-references like a one-time random number being text to you directly etc.
 

La2020

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
622
Other PSers have complained about this JA practice...

I personally think that such an approach opens up more security issues.. And it's very primitive way of authenticating who you really are. But I do notice that some US companies are still practicing such.

A secured video consultation might be a better way.. Or just opt for Bank wire transfer.. Cheaper and no qns asked.

I think there is a JA rep here.. Lemme try to dig the name up..

Got it! @jamesallenrings...
 
Last edited:

LilAlex

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
1,149
It is awful.

And: the amount of fraud out there is just staggering -- especially right now. I don't know what a legitimate online merchant is supposed to do.

Just did my year-end review of every CC and bank account we have and noticed that an insurance agency was sneaking out 10 or 20 bucks extra each month in a separate transaction. I never noticed month-by-month until I sorted all my 1,000+ charges by payee and saw it was the exact same peculiar amount each month. I logged into my account with the payee and could not find record of the charges (?!). I called the payee and they could not find them either (!). I suspect a thief had "spoofed" the "description" of the legit payee and was siphoning off a little each month -- just a random amount that got lost in the many, transactions I have with this entity. VISA canceled the card.
 
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