"We Will Not Sit In Classrooms With Armed Teachers"

[AGBF]

I really enjoyed watching MSNBC coverage of the "March For Our Lives" today, particularly that conducted by my favorite commentator, Joy Reid. Some of the student responses to her questions were so thoughtful that I was really taken aback. It has been too long since I taught high school and was reminded of how brilliant some of those young people are, as well as thoughtful and optimistic. I especially loved this speech. When I heard Donald Trump pontificating about arming teachers-he speculated about a coach or gym teacher with some military experience-I was repulsed. Today I heard one boy from Parkland saying how much he had learned from his teachers and that he thought they were underpaid for what they now did; he didn't need them "packing heat". Then I saw this. Not every American boy wants a gun to prove he's man. As one Minnesota Senator said, kids from her state love to hunt, but they are at the march in force. In my day protestors of the Vietnam War said, "What if they gave a war and nobody came?" When I listened to Trump alone I felt helpless. I thought, "This moron is going to arm teachers." But maybe the kids won't stand for it!

More power to them!

"We will not sit in classrooms with armed teachers"...https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/we-will-not-sit-in-classrooms-with-armed-teachers/vp-BBKdgWz

and this link...

 

[doberman]

When I heard Trump say to arm teachers in response to gun violence I wasn't surprised. It sounded like the response of a buffoon character on a sitcom; a response designed to get a laugh because it couldn't be serious.

 

[bludiva]

We went to the March in our town, there were lots of parents and kids out. It's ridiculous to me that we even have to protest this as a society. We should be able to agree that keeping kids safe is more important than unfettered access to guns. This should not be a partisan issue. Sad times.

 

[arkieb1]

I honestly think the next generation the children and young people that are in classrooms now that have to live with this will eventually bring about change. That the rights and voices of the many will win out over the all powerful NRA, and hopefully force change.

 

[perry]

Hi AGBF (and to the other old timers who will read this). Long time. I've been occasionally lurking for years. This subject pulled me out of the woodwork.

First; let me say that I am very proud of the youth behind this movement on gun control. I may disagree with some of their concepts and goals - but I totally agree that 1) things can be done differently and at least some things can be improved and prevented 2) that they need to get involved like they are.

I am old enough to remember the formation of "earth day" and while that revolution never achieved many of its original goals... A lot was accomplished (including how clean the roadsides are and that some group takes care of sections of highway cleaning it up). I actually remember how us students walked out of school just to pick up trash and clean up the town and the local hi-ways - they could not expel or suspend all of us (as threatened) - and it was all of us. Every student walked out or skipped school that day (later years it was a planned school service day). I remember the Viet Nam war protests... and have commented to many people over the last few decades about the apparent political pacifism of the current youth generation.

I agree that the concept of arming teachers as a general concept is a bad idea. It takes the right kind of person with the right kind of mindset and dedication to be able to use a gun in general or self defense. Even in the Military; a solid % of "solders" freeze when they get into their first battle... and are then assigned other non-combat tasks and never again expected to handle a weapon (assuming they survive that first encounter). While there are some teachers who could do this. I, nor do I believe any experienced combat professional, would expect all or even most teachers to be able to do so.

The other problem of course is that many people have certain fears about guns and people with guns. I am completely baffled by the NRA's apparent concept that somehow you can educate people and make all these fears go away.

I get the feeling that the younger generation in general may have more fears than was typical of previous generations... and I believe that they have some legitimate reasons for those fears (and my or other's wishes and desires are irreverent to them - as is appropriate). As such, unless someone was really good about "concealed carry" an obviously armed teacher would cause issues in a classroom in many places in the US. I note, that the students would never know with a dedicated professional who is good with their concealed carry techniques (unless the gun was actually needed).

In this case I do think it appropriate to allow any teacher who desires to carry a gun the right to do so, and ensure they have appropriate training - including some extra training on concealed carry in an environment with a bunch of rambunctious teenagers.

I also believe that it is appropriate to allow gun safety instruction in schools for the students who want it, with teachers who are willing to teach it. My high school had such classes.

A personal opinion, in which I am sure some of you will disagree. I believe everyone should be taught enough about guns and gun safety to be able to "safe" all standard guns if they find one (or have an encounter with someone with a gun). They don't need to learn to shoot. But, in my opinion they should know how to safely pick it up and handle it - and get it into a safer spot (a corner, a box, etc). Learning to unload should be an option as well.

Anyway, I truly hope the youth keep up their movement and truely get involved with working on better solutions. The issues behind gun violence (and violence in general) are many and at times complex. The concept of just taking guns away is a simplistic solution that will not work (other countries in the world where citizens are not allowed to own guns have had their schools stormed by "terrorist" with guns and bombs with school children killed within the last decade).

When I was in Jr. High/High School there were local "massacres" by mentally unstable people. My best friend in high school died from gunshot wound too... (about 1973).

But, there are things that I am sure can be done to improve things and reduce the number and/or severity of incidences.

Have a great day,

Perry

 

[AGBF]

I was really happy just to see your name on Pricescope, perry. I knew I would be in for a good "read", meaning something thought-provoking, even before I saw about which topic you had written. I am glad that it was one that interests me and not one I had skipped until now, because I would have read a thread I had previously skipped to see what you had posted, perry.

Thank you for your thoughts. I will be chewing them over.

Deb

 

[perry]

Thanks Deb. I don't recall the details of our previous discussions on violence/guns/school issues (it's been a while...). But the more I learn the more I learn how complicated many of these issues really are. There are multiple factors.

I am highly concerned about the overall level of violence in America, and gun violence is just a part of that. At this point I believe we have gotten where we are by how we have dealt with in the past (and deal with) people who have violent tendencies and commit violent crimes. It seems to me that America is too often far more focused on punishment and retribution; than in meaningful rehabilitation. Not to say that punishment and retribution does not have it's place - after a serious attempt at rehabilitation (which includes a reasonable chance to earn a living). I just look to how some other countries handle things and the better results they get. A lot of things should have been nipped in the bud before age 15 (and in reality before age 12).

I believe that popular US culture (and entertainment) often glorifying violence or portraying more as a game (how many X can you kill) is also a contributor. I remember vividly from my US Navy days that in Europe R and X rated movies were mostly based on violence; not nudity or sex (which were in G rated movies). Where in the US R and X ratings were based on nudity and sex and G rated movies could be massively violent in a way that indicated it was OK outside of specific situations (War is violent by its nature - and an honest depiction of the violence of war can be a sobering thing).

What most energizes me about the current situation though, is that the youth are again seriously getting involved as was typical in the 60's and 70's. As if often the case they only initially see the simple things and try to treat symptoms.

But, more important is that some of them will actually engage in serious dialog and learn about some of the complexities - and be able to lead the youth to drive for changes working within those complexities that will improve things. Then, this group of people will seriously stay involved in the political process (most often starting at the local level - which is very important).

This gives me a hope for the future of the USA I had not seen recently.

As far as my personal positions... they are not as important as the above involvement of the youth.

Intelligent dialog; where you don't prejudge, condemn, and respect the other person - even if you don't understand or agree with their position -- ALWAYS leads to a better outcome.

Have a great day,

Perry

 

[LLJsmom]

Kids have surprised and impressed me. They’re the ones getting targeted. “Yo dude! We’re sitting ducks while you psychos with guns are using us for target practice.” Yeah, if I was a high schooler I’d be even more pissed than I am now. So good for them. I wonder how Donald Chump would like it if his kid’s school got victimized. It all the children and grandchildren of nra supporters. Would it still be “guns for all!”?

 

[bludiva]

Kids have surprised and impressed me. They’re the ones getting targeted. “Yo dude! We’re sitting ducks while you psychos with guns are using us for target practice.” Yeah, if I was a high schooler I’d be even more pissed than I am now. So good for them. I wonder how Donald Chump would like it if his kid’s school got victimized. It all the children and grandchildren of nra supporters. Would it still be “guns for all!”?

my guess would be school shootings tend to happen to public schools more than private and politicians tend to send their kids to private schools more than public so that immediate motivation is lacking. but that's my cynicism talking.