"Washington Post" Columnist Jamal Khashoggi Killed By Saudis

[AGBF]

It is now abundantly clear that "The Washington Post" columnist Jamal Khashsoggi, a Saudi Arabian citizen, but permanent resident of the United States (he lived in Virginia) was killed by the Saudi government. The details given by the Turkish government are that he entered the Saudi consulate in Instanbul; was met by an execution squad of 15 people who had just entered Turkey within the past day carrying their own bone saw; that he was interrogated and tortured; murdered and his body dismembered. There was an "autopsy expert" among the 15 member execution team. The team then immediately left Turkey for two other countries, neither of which was Saudi Arabia. US intelligence intercepted messages from the Saudis prior to the murder showing that Mohammed bin Salman, the power behind the throne in the Saudi kingdom, intended to lure Khashoggi to the consulate, which is what he did.

The Saudis are the ones who were behind the 9/11 attacks on the United States. yet we attacked Iraq and Afghanistan and did business with the Saudis. We have allowed the Saudis to believe that we will support them no matter how barbaric they are in war (in Yemen) or in their actions towards individuals. Now president Trump does not want to defend Jamal Khashoggi because it would be bad for American business.

Someone has to call a halt. It is lucky that some American businesses have decided to do so on their own. Some are pulling our of a Saudi sponsored business initiative called Future Investment Initiative or "Davos in the Desert". But we need more that that. We cannot allow the United States to make friend with our attackers for filthy lucre. We said "never again" after 9/11. Now they came for Khashoggi, who was a dissident pointing out what they were up to. We cannot let them do it again.

I do not want to oversimplify the situation in the Middle East. Turkey, like Saudi Arabia, has an authoritarian régime. Iran is pitted against Saudi Arabia and both pose dangers to the United States. The situation in the Middle east, as always, is a complicated one, however. It cannot be decided simply by asking which country on one given day can give the United States the most dollars. That is not how a wise foreign policy is determined.

American businesses who are pulling out of saudi sponsored conference...https://www.axios.com/companies-sau...nce-153deaec-1282-4723-91f2-2ea8998d5fe2.html
History of the Khashoggi Killing...

AGBF

 

[Ally T]

It's disgusting. And I will make no apologies for absolutely despising Trump. The world laughs at him & also recoils in horror at the decisions he makes, but his supporters are still supporting

 

[AGBF]

There have been rumors that Turkey has audio and video recordings of Khashoggi's death from inside the Saudi consulate in Instanbul, but the public was never led to understand that they were from a source other than the Turkish government. Now CNN reports that Jamal Khashoggi may have recorded his own murder using his Apple watch.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/12/middleeast/khashoggi-saudi-turkey-recordings-intl/index.html

 

[redwood66]

No president in recent history has confronted the Saudis and it is a disgrace that has taken place for decades.

 

[AGBF]

No president in recent history has confronted the Saudis and it is a disgrace that has taken place for decades.

I completely agree with this.

 

[Tekate]

Saudi's fund terrorism. The Saudi's are not our friends. This whole sad situation is enough for me to end any talks with the Saudis.

 

[tkyasx78]

Very upsetting. I am so sorry for his family.

 

[AGBF]

There is a protest from Labour in the UK against the lack of a strong response from their government to the Saudi murder of Jamal Khashoggi. The UK still plans to send Liam Fox, the British international trade secretary to "Davos in the Desert" just as Donald Trump plans to send Steve Mnuchin, the US Secretary of the Treasury there. As has been pointed out above, many private corporations have pulled their representatives in protest of the Khashoggi killing and the "Davos in the Desert" conference is collapsing. It is a disgrace that Donald Trump insists on having the US represented there!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ment-over-khashoggi-response-emily-thornberry

 

[Calliecake]

Trump has long standing business dealings with the Saudi’s. Does anyone really expect Trump to put anything before his making money? How is this not a conflict of interest? He was tougher on Taylor Swift.

 

[doberman]

Our dependence on oil keeps us in thrall to SA. And much as I despise Trump, no sitting president has dared to hold the Saudi government accountable for its support of terrorists.

 

[AGBF]

There have been rumors that Turkey has audio and video recordings of Khashoggi's death from inside the Saudi consulate in Instanbul, but the public was never led to understand that they were from a source other than the Turkish government. Now CNN reports that Jamal Khashoggi may have recorded his own murder using his Apple watch.

...​

The BBC is debunking rumors that Khashoggi was able to use his Apple watch to record his interrogation and murder for technical reasons (see link to article below). The theory of the author of this article is that the Apple watch story is cover for the surveillance methods of the Saudis and their consulate actually in use by the Turks in Istanbul.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45857777

 

[AprilBaby]

I was under the impression we now produce more oil than Saudi Arabia.

 

[Arkteia]

What I want to say is that the world has become a very dangerous place for brave and honest journalists. Many country, developing and developed, have own long, sad lists, full of men and women who died for truth.

Without these journalists willing to risk their lives for truth, what would our word turn into?

I think that the world's moral level of intolerance in the world where the journalists are considered expendable should be raised several notches higher.

Saudi Arabia is not invincible. It is very much dependent on the US, on good relationships with us. And it is changing painstakingly slowly.

 

[Arkteia]

I was under the impression we now produce more oil than Saudi Arabia.

1) their oil is cheaper
2) they buy our weapons
3) they are the moral and religious compass for the Muslim world.

But - they need us more than we need them. And they know it perfectly well.

 

[AGBF]

1) their oil is cheaper
2) they buy our weapons
3) they are the moral and religious compass for the Muslim world.

But - they need us more than we need them. And they know it perfectly well.

I do not want to get into a very detailed thread about Islam here, but I need to take exception to number 3. While Saudi Arabia is, of course, keeper of some of the holiest sites of the Muslim religion (others are in Israel), it is not considered to be the "leader" by many countries who follow the Muslim faith. First of all, many Muslim people are not even Sunni Muslims like the Saudis, Second of all, many other countries do not like their Wahhabi form of Sunni Islam.

During the Ottoman Empire it was the Turks who were the caliphs of the Empire which encompassed most of the Muslim world.

https://dailyhistory.org/How_Did_the_Ottoman_Empire_Become_the_Third_Great_Islamic_Caliphate?


AGBF

 

[Arkteia]

I do not want to get into a very detailed thread about Islam here, but I need to take exception to number 3. While Saudi Arabia is, of course, keeper of some of the holiest sites of the Muslim religion (others are in Israel), it is not considered to be the "leader" by many countries who follow the Muslim faith. First of all, many Muslim people are not even Sunni Muslims like the Saudis, Second of all, many other countries do not like their Wahhabi form of Sunni Islam.

During the Ottoman Empire it was the Turks who were the caliphs of the Empire which encompassed most of the Muslim world.

https://dailyhistory.org/How_Did_the_Ottoman_Empire_Become_the_Third_Great_Islamic_Caliphate?


AGBF

AGBF, I don't want to get into the details for one simple reason, I don't understand that much. I suspect that most of us, people who don't speak arabic and have little knowledge of daily of Islamic culture, do not understand. Maybe you had bigger exposure to it, I did not.

It is true that Mecca was annexed by the Ottoman Empire, but the Ottoman Empire ceased to exist in 1915. And while there are subbranches of Islam, some better known. some worse, Hadj is for all, the Saudi Arabia gives annual quotas for Muslim countries. These quotas, and tickets, and visas, are another way to control. Also, speaking with my former compatriots from Central Asia who are now independent (and many work as taxicab drivers in Moscow), I always ask about their life not that they got Islam back. I hear a lot about Hadj.

From what I understand, the feeling of unity during the Hadj it is very uplifiting. I think it plays a huge role.

 

[AGBF]

I enjoyed your response, Arkteia. On another note, I thought this broadcast was excellent. As the crawl says, al Jazeera, the network producing the video, is owned in part by Qatar. (Qatar and Saudi Arabia are at odds with each other.) Nonetheless, I found it very impartial and well-done.