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UCLABelle

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So so sad. What an awful tragedy, as a current grad student, with a younger brother in college, I cannot describe my worry, and hurt....

Thoughts?
 

fire&ice

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We''ve been talking about it in Hangout.

It''s truly unimaginable. I am very angry that the network news is now trying to disect and second quess the response by police, etc. This is Blacksburg, VA. It''s rural. It truly is an unimaginable crime.
 

AGBF

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Date: 4/16/2007 4:31:30 PM
Author: fire&ice
We''ve been talking about it in Hangout.

It''s truly unimaginable. I am very angry that the network news is now trying to disect and second quess the response by police, etc. This is Blacksburg, VA. It''s rural. It truly is an unimaginable crime.
I haven''t seen any television coverage of it. As I have said here before, we rarely turn on the television. I might have put it on to see what is happening at Virginia Tech, but my husband wouldn''t approve because we have a child...and she is the reason we unplugged in the first place. But I will go over to Hangout and read more.

To me this episode feels personal. We live in Virginia (as does fire&ice) and I know students who went there and students planning to go there next year. It''s close to home.

 

diamondfan

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The world is so insane to me, it seems there is not anyplace that is truly safe or immune from these terrible senseless tragedies. It just takes one person, disgruntled, angry, mentally unstable, who has the will to do harm and access to weapons. It is awful. I cannot imagine what the parents who have children on the campus were going through.
 

strmrdr

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too bad there wasnt someone there with a gun to stop it :{
 

njc

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Date: 4/16/2007 7:04:45 PM
Author: strmrdr
too bad there wasnt someone there with a gun to stop it :{
As an alum, you would be amazed at what my male friends had on hand. You are also talking about a student body that contains a Corps of Cadets... our military''s future soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen. Their dorms are a mere block from where the largest incident occured. Now of course it takes someone being in the right place at the right time, but from most of the accounts I have heard (from the media and second hand) things happened so fast all you could do was hide and pray.
 

fire&ice

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Date: 4/17/2007 9:16:45 AM
Author: njc

Date: 4/16/2007 7:04:45 PM
Author: strmrdr
too bad there wasnt someone there with a gun to stop it :{
As an alum, you would be amazed at what my male friends had on hand. You are also talking about a student body that contains a Corps of Cadets... our military''s future soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen. Their dorms are a mere block from where the largest incident occured. Now of course it takes someone being in the right place at the right time, but from most of the accounts I have heard (from the media and second hand) things happened so fast all you could do was hide and pray.
Because they are not crazy enough to violate their right - which the righrt extends to VERY few on a college campus.

I still believe this is CLEARLY a case of easy to get weaponS. Evidently, we now extend that right to NON citizens. Shaved off serial numbers. 2 guns (9mm 22mm or two 9mm) modified for semi auto. Yep, let''s not change the guns laws.
They are just PERFECT as they are. While most of the rumors I heard have been confirmed, I''ll throw out one more. The guy knew guns. He knew how to shoot to kill. The guy had a chain to "lock" the door. Must have given it some thought. Yep, the perfect candidate to have a gun.

And, initially the police thought the dorm killing was a murder/suicide from initial information. I''d love to see all these "pundints" reactions in the heat of this tradegy starting at 7 in the morning.
 

diamondfan

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He killed his girlfriend and the RA who tried to help her. I have heard he was NOT a student and that there might be another shooter. Not too sure. But, they assumed he left the campus? 2600 acres and they assume he just left? No cameras, no way to verify, and they just assume that he left the area? And think of the people he must have encountered as he walked to the other building...he clearly wanted to get into that building though, since had he shown his guns on the way, he might have been stopped before getting there. He had chains to lock the doors and had a systematic approach. The minute the cops broke down the doors he killed himself, so he clearly did not want to get arrested...who knows what started this, but we all know how it ended.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 4/17/2007 9:16:45 AM
Author: njc


Date: 4/16/2007 7:04:45 PM
Author: strmrdr
too bad there wasnt someone there with a gun to stop it :{
As an alum, you would be amazed at what my male friends had on hand. You are also talking about a student body that contains a Corps of Cadets... our military's future soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen. Their dorms are a mere block from where the largest incident occured. Now of course it takes someone being in the right place at the right time, but from most of the accounts I have heard (from the media and second hand) things happened so fast all you could do was hide and pray.
the university has ruled that anyone with a gun on campus will get expelled even CCW holders are not allowed to carry.
there was actually a law voted on in committee of the state legislator the day before to invalidate that rule and allow CCW on campus.
So all that was left was unarmed targets.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 4/17/2007 10:00:25 AM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 4/17/2007 9:16:45 AM
Author: njc


Date: 4/16/2007 7:04:45 PM
Author: strmrdr
too bad there wasnt someone there with a gun to stop it :{
As an alum, you would be amazed at what my male friends had on hand. You are also talking about a student body that contains a Corps of Cadets... our military''s future soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen. Their dorms are a mere block from where the largest incident occured. Now of course it takes someone being in the right place at the right time, but from most of the accounts I have heard (from the media and second hand) things happened so fast all you could do was hide and pray.
Because they are not crazy enough to violate their right - which the righrt extends to VERY few on a college campus.

I still believe this is CLEARLY a case of easy to get weaponS. Evidently, we now extend that right to NON citizens. Shaved off serial numbers. 2 guns (9mm 22mm or two 9mm) modified for semi auto. Yep, let''s not change the guns laws.
They are just PERFECT as they are. While most of the rumors I heard have been confirmed, I''ll throw out one more. The guy knew guns. He knew how to shoot to kill. The guy had a chain to ''lock'' the door. Must have given it some thought. Yep, the perfect candidate to have a gun.

And, initially the police thought the dorm killing was a murder/suicide from initial information. I''d love to see all these ''pundints'' reactions in the heat of this tradegy starting at 7 in the morning.
yea like he didn''t violate several dozen laws and outlawing drugs really works too.
all gun laws do is disarm the honest.
 

njc

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Date: 4/17/2007 10:40:11 AM
Author: diamondfan
He killed his girlfriend and the RA who tried to help her. I have heard he was NOT a student and that there might be another shooter. Not too sure. But, they assumed he left the campus? 2600 acres and they assume he just left? No cameras, no way to verify, and they just assume that he left the area? And think of the people he must have encountered as he walked to the other building...he clearly wanted to get into that building though, since had he shown his guns on the way, he might have been stopped before getting there. He had chains to lock the doors and had a systematic approach. The minute the cops broke down the doors he killed himself, so he clearly did not want to get arrested...who knows what started this, but we all know how it ended.
He was a student... a senior majoring in English that lived in a nearby dorm. He was a native from South Korea living in Centreville, VA as a resident alien. The guns he carried have been comfirmed as the weapons in both shootings, but he has yet to be comfirmed as the shooter in both. I feel it is only a matter of time before this happens. I have stopped watching/reading the media and am now just reading the press releases from the university.

I agree to assume he left campus was a little weird, but still do not fault the university for their response. How on earth could any one have possibly known he was going to go to the other side of campus and go nuts. Why didnt he go nuts in AJ?! When I first heard of the shooting, I said love triangle, not love triangle plus revenge on the student body and staff. What if he had walked into Norris first?

I have yet to hear about him showing his gun to get in any building. Those card readers are nice on the dorms, but we were constantly yelled at for leaving doors open and letting people in. If you were walking in behind me, I would have probably let you in too, esp if I knew you were dating a girl on my hall... save her from having to come down and get you.

As for the chains, I have heard he had them on him, but when I was there 5 years ago, the back doors to our dorm were always chained shut at night so people would have to enter through the front and check in (we werent cool enough to have the card swipes). I feel the extra doors on the academic buidlings may have been chained as well, but cant really remember. Anyways, when they werent in use, they just wrapped them around the handles... easy for someone to pick up or just use properly.

Strm - Sorry... im not a good one to talk to/debate guns laws... I know nothing. My friends were probably breaking laws then too.
 

fire&ice

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to add to njc - the police were told by a WITNESS that this particular person they were pursuing (turns out not the actual shooter in Norris) was seen leaving the dorm. They INDEED did find this person off campus. He was an acquaintace that was visiting the girl. Honestly, I just love these monday morning quarterbacks who just KNEW what should have been done. There was no indication that some crazy person was arming himself for a killing spree. It wasn''t some leap of faith to think the situation was domestic in nature. Also, think about how early this was. Most people were either in transit, or just arriving to their destination - cell phone off.

Geez, I hope people who are calling for heads to roll judge themselves in the same high standard of crystal ball gazing.


Storm, you will never convince me that stricter gun laws will keep guns out of the hands of law bidding citizens. You have your position. I have mine. I''m done with the gun argument. Only time will tell where he got these guns & serious ammo. It is clear that he had a plan.
 

diamondfan

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Fire, all I am saying is that considering they had an incident on campus this year with guns, they should have notified the campus. Students were unaware and walking around. There could have been 2 or 3 gunmen, why would you not alert the school so that people knew what was going on? I am saying I would make NO assumptions about it, but get the word out as soon as possible to safeguard others.
 

njc

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Date: 4/17/2007 3:44:00 PM
Author: diamondfan
Fire, all I am saying is that considering they had an incident on campus this year with guns, they should have notified the campus. Students were unaware and walking around. There could have been 2 or 3 gunmen, why would you not alert the school so that people knew what was going on? I am saying I would make NO assumptions about it, but get the word out as soon as possible to safeguard others.
Diamond - I think you are trying to say an incident earlier correct? That actually was not on campus. It happened in the hospital and along a trail that connects the area the hospital is in to the far, far, FAR edge of campus (at least a mile if not 2 from the heart of campus with nothing but a visitor center near it). I want to say the trail 10 miles long or something like that... not super close by. They had information that gunmen had already killed 2 and was headed in the direction of campus (either that or a HUGE cow field... there is nothing else out there
). I also want to say that it happened later in the morning, so students were out and about, just lucky nothing happened. I have heard accounts of officials driving around with loud speakers telling people to get inside... I dont know what more you could ask for

Okay, so say you send out an email at 8am once you have figured out what is going on with the first shooting... hell, lets say you send it out at 730... as a student or prof, I am already on my way to campus for my 8am class (something like 10K+ kids live OFF campus). It would take me about 10 minutes to get on campus and about another 10-15 to walk to my classroom from where ever I was able to find a parking spot or was dropped off by the bus. Plus, who knows if I checked my email before I left or not... i probably rolled out of bed at the last possible second. I dont have a Blackberry, so how am i supposed to be alerted?

The university used other means of communication... phone trees (which really only work for those living on campus), iMessages and sirens were set off to alert that something was wrong. I''m sure word was sent out to radio stations, but in this day and age of iPods, not everyone listens to the radio any more! Pres Steger mentioned the university was looking into a cell phone alert system after the incident in August, but had yet to reach a decision it. That would have to rely on students signing up though, so again, not a 100% guarantee. And then what happens when the circuits jam? I dont think there is a fool-proof way of letting everyone know.

I watched the convocation this afternoon and thought it was wonderful. I love nikki giovanni and think hers may have been the best. Love it even more that the crowd erupted into "Let''s go Hokies" cheers afterwards. I also am SO glad they gave Pres. Steger a standing ovation as well... the man deserves it.
 

fire&ice

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Date: 4/17/2007 4:16:44 PM
Author: njc

Date: 4/17/2007 3:44:00 PM
Author: diamondfan
Fire, all I am saying is that considering they had an incident on campus this year with guns, they should have notified the campus. Students were unaware and walking around. There could have been 2 or 3 gunmen, why would you not alert the school so that people knew what was going on? I am saying I would make NO assumptions about it, but get the word out as soon as possible to safeguard others.
Diamond - I think you are trying to say an incident earlier correct? That actually was not on campus. It happened in the hospital and along a trail that connects the area the hospital is in to the far, far, FAR edge of campus (at least a mile if not 2 from the heart of campus with nothing but a visitor center near it). I want to say the trail 10 miles long or something like that... not super close by. They had information that gunmen had already killed 2 and was headed in the direction of campus (either that or a HUGE cow field... there is nothing else out there
). I also want to say that it happened later in the morning, so students were out and about, just lucky nothing happened. I have heard accounts of officials driving around with loud speakers telling people to get inside... I dont know what more you could ask for

Okay, so say you send out an email at 8am once you have figured out what is going on with the first shooting... hell, lets say you send it out at 730... as a student or prof, I am already on my way to campus for my 8am class (something like 10K+ kids live OFF campus). It would take me about 10 minutes to get on campus and about another 10-15 to walk to my classroom from where ever I was able to find a parking spot or was dropped off by the bus. Plus, who knows if I checked my email before I left or not... i probably rolled out of bed at the last possible second. I dont have a Blackberry, so how am i supposed to be alerted?

The university used other means of communication... phone trees (which really only work for those living on campus), iMessages and sirens were set off to alert that something was wrong. I''m sure word was sent out to radio stations, but in this day and age of iPods, not everyone listens to the radio any more! Pres Steger mentioned the university was looking into a cell phone alert system after the incident in August, but had yet to reach a decision it. That would have to rely on students signing up though, so again, not a 100% guarantee. And then what happens when the circuits jam? I dont think there is a fool-proof way of letting everyone know.

I watched the convocation this afternoon and thought it was wonderful. I love nikki giovanni and think hers may have been the best. Love it even more that the crowd erupted into ''Let''s go Hokies'' cheers afterwards. I also am SO glad they gave Pres. Steger a standing ovation as well... the man deserves it.
Wow - and all I had was a rolly eye! Didn''t think it would be helpful and gave up.
Excellent overview about a very complex situation.

Pres. Stegar deserved a standing ovation. He has handled himself with calm, sensitivity, sensiblity & as clearly part of the Hokie family. In fact, the whole community has handled themselves well in the eyes of the world. That is a legacy worthy of note.
 

belle

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Date: 4/17/2007 4:46:44 PM
Author: fire&ice


Date: 4/17/2007 4:16:44 PM
Author: njc



Date: 4/17/2007 3:44:00 PM
Author: diamondfan
Fire, all I am saying is that considering they had an incident on campus this year with guns, they should have notified the campus. Students were unaware and walking around. There could have been 2 or 3 gunmen, why would you not alert the school so that people knew what was going on? I am saying I would make NO assumptions about it, but get the word out as soon as possible to safeguard others.
Diamond - I think you are trying to say an incident earlier correct? That actually was not on campus. It happened in the hospital and along a trail that connects the area the hospital is in to the far, far, FAR edge of campus (at least a mile if not 2 from the heart of campus with nothing but a visitor center near it). I want to say the trail 10 miles long or something like that... not super close by. They had information that gunmen had already killed 2 and was headed in the direction of campus (either that or a HUGE cow field... there is nothing else out there
). I also want to say that it happened later in the morning, so students were out and about, just lucky nothing happened. I have heard accounts of officials driving around with loud speakers telling people to get inside... I dont know what more you could ask for

Okay, so say you send out an email at 8am once you have figured out what is going on with the first shooting... hell, lets say you send it out at 730... as a student or prof, I am already on my way to campus for my 8am class (something like 10K+ kids live OFF campus). It would take me about 10 minutes to get on campus and about another 10-15 to walk to my classroom from where ever I was able to find a parking spot or was dropped off by the bus. Plus, who knows if I checked my email before I left or not... i probably rolled out of bed at the last possible second. I dont have a Blackberry, so how am i supposed to be alerted?

The university used other means of communication... phone trees (which really only work for those living on campus), iMessages and sirens were set off to alert that something was wrong. I'm sure word was sent out to radio stations, but in this day and age of iPods, not everyone listens to the radio any more! Pres Steger mentioned the university was looking into a cell phone alert system after the incident in August, but had yet to reach a decision it. That would have to rely on students signing up though, so again, not a 100% guarantee. And then what happens when the circuits jam? I dont think there is a fool-proof way of letting everyone know.

I watched the convocation this afternoon and thought it was wonderful. I love nikki giovanni and think hers may have been the best. Love it even more that the crowd erupted into 'Let's go Hokies' cheers afterwards. I also am SO glad they gave Pres. Steger a standing ovation as well... the man deserves it.
Wow - and all I had was a rolly eye! Didn't think it would be helpful and gave up.
Excellent overview about a very complex situation.

Pres. Stegar deserved a standing ovation. He has handled himself with calm, sensitivity, sensiblity & as clearly part of the Hokie family. In fact, the whole community has handled themselves well in the eyes of the world. That is a legacy worthy of note.
ditto! excellent overview indeed. i wish the community continued strength and wisdom during this difficult time. it can't be easy having millions of 'monday morning quarterbacks' criticizing the situation.
peace be with everyone involved.

you have been in my thoughts njc. i started a thread in hangout when i first heard of what was happening (the title was a little long, so it got lost right away) but i thought of you and indecisive immediately and wanted to send thoughts and prayers to you and all affected by this horrible tragedy.
 

njc

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Thank you F&I and Belle. Diamond, I dont mean to flame you or upset you, but purely defending my beloved university. The place is its own living breathing beast independant from everything around it. I feel the only way for anyone to fully understand, is to have been there... student, visitor, whatever.

I have been so proud of my fellow Hokies... the composure and compasion all have shown. My first thoughts after shock were of comfort knowing our community, our Hokie Nation, would pull together and raise again. I witnessed it and was a part of it during 9/11. My mom has even commented on the Hokie Pride and how amazing it is. I am proud the world is getting to see what a strong university we have, I just wish it was under a different situation.
 

decodelighted

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I can see how this incident was interpreted as a "domestic" situation at the beginning ... why would a gunman wishing to harm DOZENS of studens NOT harm anyone else at the scene of the first tragedy. There were witnesses -- not shot at. Interviewed by police.

WHO COULD KNOW what WAS going to happen. I think 2nd guessing the officials & placing blame on anyone other than the shooter is UNHELPFUL.

Now -- obviously all schools & universities will learn a lot about how to handle FUTURE incidents differently. My DH works at a well-known private college in NY and they were already collecting cell phones of students to try to perfect "emergency" contact systems in this new age where many students DON''T HAVE LAND LINES in their rooms. Yesterdays events have made the project all the more urgent.

Virginia is SHAKEN by this. All I know FULLY SUPPORT the president of Tech & I hope that you''ll not buy into the media frenzy and hang a fine man out to dry before considering all sides.

It''s easy to lash out & want to blame someone -- want to *BELIEVE* that you can really change the course of TRAGEDY with superior ORGANIZATION. Not. Always. So.
 

graceelou

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The campus police are an accredited force. As such I believe they should have made NO assumptions as to the motive of the shooter and done all they could have to get the word out to the student body that a shooting had taken place on campus and to take immediate cover. The police officer at our recent neighborhood watch meeting stressed this exact idea that if we seen anything we think is suspicious that we shouldn''t qualify it and simply call the police, i.e. assume the worst, hope for the best.
 

njc

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Deco - I am with you 150% on everything. I am glad other schools are taking this so seriously, I am just sorry we had to be the example. I dont think there is a school out there that would have had the "perfect" plan in place.

graceelou - I'm pretty sure the police was called ASAP and once they knew what was going on they DID notify students in AJ immediately! Those they thought were the most impacted knew what was going on. Then the university was notified. And then almost at the same time, the second shooting took place.
 

diamondfan

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I am a bit confused here, if the rude comments and attitude are being aimed at me, since none of you all were there either and I am watching the same shows and reports as everyone else. I am NOT sitting in judgement but merely stating what has been on the news here. People were saying that HOWEVER they give out information on a mass scale, the fact that ONLY THE DORM IN QUESTION knew about this incident is a problem and had there been a better system, the second shootings might not have occured or have been less deadly. To assume ANYTHING is dangerous when people have been killed. The guy had nearly two hours to set up for the next shootings, and apparently most of the school was unaware of what occured in that dorm. I heard NO OTHER BUILDING was notified and that for a long while only campus police, not the town police or swat teams, were on scene. I have heard this from witnesses on Nancy Grace and Anderson Cooper 360. Granted, it was a chaotic and terrible scene, and I am sure it is tough to disseminate information, BUT I am not being personally nasty to anyone who is posting what THEY have heard. Let''s leave the eye rolling and attitude out, it is not productive or necessary.
 

diamondfan

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NJC, I agree with your comments that nothing is 100 percent guaranteed. But that still does not mean a method, which might be overall very effective, should not be determined. One of the shows had a woman on who is a professor at VT and her daughter goes there, and she mentioned the August incident, did not give details, just stated that there had been shootings there last August and that the school had been trying to refine its response etc. She felt that they were trying to have a system in place, but she wondered why only the first building knew, and the rest of the campus did not know anything had occured until this guy showed up in the second building and started shooting, the calls came in about 9:44 am from Norris Hall.
 

diamondfan

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Not sure where else I would get my information living in PA. I watch CNN and read the Enquirer and this is what is in our papers. This is not to malign anyone, merely wondering, in the crazy world we live in, if it might not have been better like someone else posted, to assume the worst and hope for the best...if it were only domestic, still it is a terrible event, but it is likelier to be limited in scope. This clearly was not. Is it true that his writing assignments upset a prof to the point of a referral to the mental health center being made? Details and facts emerge over time after tragedies like this. I am NOT second guessing, just wishing another course had been taken, one that might have saved more lives. This is not about be malicious toward an entity, just wishing the numbers could have been lower. I am sure the President and all involved did the best they could, and the shame of it is it just goes to show you can never know what is in someone''s head. This was not a random visitor to the campus, but a student who had access to all, which any student would. How does one begin to protect against that?
 

strmrdr

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Date: 4/17/2007 3:23:35 PM
Author: fire&ice

Storm, you will never convince me that stricter gun laws will keep guns out of the hands of law bidding citizens. You have your position. I have mine. I''m done with the gun argument. Only time will tell where he got these guns & serious ammo. It is clear that he had a plan.
I do know where he got them and he passed all local and federal tests and would have passed any of the hoops that have been proposed.
There was nothing in his record to that wouldn''t catch millions of people who will never misuse a firearm. (only thing was a green card that set him apart from joe anyone paperwork wise)
if he couldn''t have bought them legally he still would have got them on the black market.
He used a glock 9mm which is one of the most common guns on the black market.
The other was a walther p-22 .22lr.
 

njc

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I stopped paying attention to the media early yesterday. I have been reading officially released information from the university and lot of my facts about the university come from my living there for 5 years in terms of knowing how the campus works and functions. Locations of buildings and the security methods used. If you would like to do the same the website is www.vt.edu They have completly reorganized the website to distribute information as quickly as possible.

As far as your comment about had the whole university known about the first situation it would/could have been less deadly (People were saying that HOWEVER they give out information on a mass scale, the fact that ONLY THE DORM IN QUESTION knew about this incident is a problem and had there been a better system, the second shootings might not have occured or have been less deadly.), please read my *former student account* in a previous post concerning the timeline I would have had to use in order to be in class by 8am. First shooting took place at 715, say there was an email out by 730, I''m already gone. No way to get in touch with me now and I am a sitting duck in class.

An email went out at 9:26am about the first shooting. It discribed where the shooting took place and said police where still on the scene investigating. If you see something suspicious, call police. We will send out more information later. I believe F&I posted about witnesses seeing a person of interest leaving campus and that is who the police followed. Unfortunately they were wrong.

You say calls came in from Norris at 9:44am. At 9:50 a second email went out saying the gunman was loose on campus and to stay inside, away from windows until further notice. Police were on loud speakers driving around campus making this announcement AND the emergency sirens were set off.

10:15am email about classes being canceled were sent out and then at 10:50am an email discribing the second shooting went out and again asked for everyone to stay inside.

I think we all wish there had been another course that could have been taken. Sadly, I believe the only other course that could have saved any more lives was to gaze into a crystal ball. No one could have predicted a shooting in a dorm would lead to a shooting on the other side of campus. When the infamous DC/MD/VA sniper shootings were happening, it took several people being shot and/or killed before the police knew who/what they were looking for, that it wasnt just random shootings. Nothing starts the way they end. We can second guess and point fingers all day long, but all I want to do is support my Hokie community and help it to heal. There will ALWAYS be something that COULD have been done. Past events, current events, future events.
 

Kaleigh

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How can you make sense out of the senseless?? Focus should be on what. What can be done on all campuses. Texting students instead of emails perhaps. My heart just breaks for the families, and the whole Virginia Tech community. I feel healing will come, just will take a long time. I have been very impressed with the students as a whole. I feel there is no way anyone could have anticipated such a horrific act.
 

diamondfan

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
11,016
I think as rational beings we would never dream of the mind snapping or someone deciding to do this. It is too scary to think about that part of someone''s mind that would go to that as an acceptable thing to do . That Yahoo article that Skippy posted in the other thread was interesting and a bit scary. He apparently showed a lot of anger and hostility in his writing. He was mostly a loner and non responsive to people who tried to engage him. People apparently also felt that he was the type to perpertrate something like this. I got chills when I read that. From a mental health perspective, I am not sure the value counseling would have if he refused to communicate. Clearly he was an angry and disturbed young man, resentful of the wealthy kids around and who knows what else. Maybe someone qualified could have drawn him out and gotten through to him, I am not sure it would have helped, but who knows?
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Date: 4/17/2007 9:50:59 PM
Author: strmrdr


Date: 4/17/2007 3:23:35 PM
Author: fire&ice

Storm, you will never convince me that stricter gun laws will keep guns out of the hands of law bidding citizens. You have your position. I have mine. I'm done with the gun argument. Only time will tell where he got these guns & serious ammo. It is clear that he had a plan.
I do know where he got them and he passed all local and federal tests and would have passed any of the hoops that have been proposed.
There was nothing in his record to that wouldn't catch millions of people who will never misuse a firearm. (only thing was a green card that set him apart from joe anyone paperwork wise)
if he couldn't have bought them legally he still would have got them on the black market.
He used a glock 9mm which is one of the most common guns on the black market.
The other was a walther p-22 .22lr.
Well, you and I shouldn't argue about the pros cons or lack thereof regarding gun control. With every point - there will be a counterpoint and the question that will always come up - informed by whom? That said


You are correct about the weapons. The 9mm was purchased at a Roanoke gun shop. All paper work legal. And, I did not know that a non citizen can purchase a gun in VA. (and my commentary that it's just wrong
). Initially, the reports were that he modified the guns for semi auto. You would know more about the 22 - are they semi auto as well? Perhaps that gun was modified - something about buying the mod on the internet. His computer had sites like that & also bomb making sites. The 22 was purchased at a pawn shop in Blacksburg. Not much about that gun has been released. He purchased both the guns in March. I am at a loss as to why someone would need two semi-automatics? So, save murdering 32 innocent college kids in cold blood in a matter of minutes & rubbing off the serial numbers, he commited no crime involving the gun.

Being weird won't get you arrested or investigated & in this case no reason to deny a gun in VA. Storm, you must know that VA has one of the most lax gun laws in the country. You may not know that the right to hunt is in our constitution (a.k.a.- right to a gun). You may be happy. I'm not & did not vote for it. I'm still waiting for MY constitutional right to SHOP.

I can tell you this. The gun debate in VA. has heated up to buring point (once again). Both sides trying to politicize it
 

diamondfan

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
11,016
Being weird is not a crime, and it is easy to second guess now that he did commit these acts, but he did concern a few people with his words and actions. And, yes, as a resident alien with a green card and no prior record, he was able to buy a gun legally, one could not know why he needed it or what he would do with it, but it was legal from a purchase standpoint.

Is it true, that even though people have tried hard to change this, that one can go to a gunshow and buy a gun and there is no background check required? I recall seeing a story about a woman in NY, a Congresswoman I think, who lost her husband on the Long Island Rail Road shooting years ago. I am not sure if her hubby was in politics, but she, a Republican, changed parties, became a Democrat and beat the incumbent in the next election...and she tried to get that changed. That just seems amazing to me, that anyone can walk into a gun show and walk out with a gun, no waiting period for a check regarding a criminal record. It was late and I was so tired I was not sure if I heard that correctly. If that is true, it would seem to be blatanly dangerous and make it too easy to just get a gun in a quick and anonymous way.
 
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