Vintage stones - what colour is acceptable?

[Tuffy]

I am new to this - I see many beautiful OEC/transitional stones with L, M, N grading - compared to modern round brilliant. I am just wondering what colour will still face up white. Are these vintage stones still acceptably white at I or J even though the same grading for a round brilliant will look warm?

 

[Enerchi]

Hi Tuffy,
I am NO expert but colour is perceived mainly on the sides so if you set your stone in a bezel, that may reduce the perception of colour. As for old stones, if you are finding I/J's, they will definitely face up much whiter, and you will pay accordingly for that. Check out the vintage stones thread and see what appeals to you there.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-your-vintage-stones.172903/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-your-vintage-stones.172903/[/URL]

 

[elliemay]

I think it's down to your own personal preference as to what's "acceptable" re: colour. My stone is an M and it faces up quite white most of the time, but it's definitely tinted from the side. My setting is very open, though, so I knew I needed to be comfortable with that side tint being visible. If you think you'll be bothered by the tint at all, definitely go for a bezel set or buy the highest colour you can afford, otherwise that little bit of colour will probably drive you crazy over time.

For me, there's something about the faceting of an older cut that suits the lower colours. I would never, ever want a modern round brilliant in an M, but I would never, ever want an older cut in a D, if that makes sense. The faceting patterns of each just don't look "right" if the colour is too high or too low, to my eye.

 

[Amys Bling]

It's your personal preference- and you should try to see some old cuts in person to see why your perception of white is in an old cut. To be safe I'd stay in the GHI range...

I think old cuts are charming in lower colors myself

 

[Mayk]

This was a GREAT question....

 

[yennyfire]

I would agree that it's totally personal preference, though I have seen quite a few older cuts in much lower colors appear totally white to me, so much so that I was shocked by their color grade. I think with old stones, you can't rule one out solely based on color. You might miss a great stone that way. FWIW, my oval is an E. I wasn't looking for an E (heck, I wasn't even looking for a stone!), but it doesn't have that icy whiteness to me that an E in a modern cut would have...now, I wouldn't go paying for an E if you can find similarly faceted stones in the lower range that you love...you'll pay a lot less for it!

 

[Amys Bling]

I would agree that it's totally personal preference, though I have seen quite a few older cuts in much lower colors appear totally white to me, so much so that I was shocked by their color grade. I think with old stones, you can't rule one out solely based on color. You might miss a great stone that way. FWIW, my oval is an E. I wasn't looking for an E (heck, I wasn't even looking for a stone!), but it doesn't have that icy whiteness to me that an E in a modern cut would have...now, I wouldn't go paying for an E if you can find similarly faceted stones in the lower range that you love...you'll pay a lot less for it!

so true. Old cuts are a totally different animal and you really don't know how one will look. I'd buy from a vendor with a great return policy so that you can experience the color of the stone and see how you feel.

 

[Haven]

I would agree that it's totally personal preference, though I have seen quite a few older cuts in much lower colors appear totally white to me, so much so that I was shocked by their color grade. I think with old stones, you can't rule one out solely based on color. You might miss a great stone that way. FWIW, my oval is an E. I wasn't looking for an E (heck, I wasn't even looking for a stone!), but it doesn't have that icy whiteness to me that an E in a modern cut would have...now, I wouldn't go paying for an E if you can find similarly faceted stones in the lower range that you love...you'll pay a lot less for it!

so true. Old cuts are a totally different animal and you really don't know how one will look. I'd buy from a vendor with a great return policy so that you can experience the color of the stone and see how you feel.

I agree.

I wear an O/P and I love it. But, I didn't know I would love it until I had it in my hands.

 

[Dreamer_D]

My larger OEC is an I color, and my two smaller ones are J colors. Compared to higher colors you can see the warmth. But in OECs the light play is different and I find you do not notice the warmth in the same way that you notice it in RBs. I can't speak for more tinted shades as I have not seem them in person.

One thing you need to know about OECs is how *rare* a near colorless stone is, let alone a truly colorless stone. Also, you cannot really just order up one in the color you want with other features you might want -- like a particular facet pattern or clarity, or size -- without paying through the nose. If you want an old cut you have to be flexible.

 

[Amys Bling]

I would agree that it's totally personal preference, though I have seen quite a few older cuts in much lower colors appear totally white to me, so much so that I was shocked by their color grade. I think with old stones, you can't rule one out solely based on color. You might miss a great stone that way. FWIW, my oval is an E. I wasn't looking for an E (heck, I wasn't even looking for a stone!), but it doesn't have that icy whiteness to me that an E in a modern cut would have...now, I wouldn't go paying for an E if you can find similarly faceted stones in the lower range that you love...you'll pay a lot less for it!

so true. Old cuts are a totally different animal and you really don't know how one will look. I'd buy from a vendor with a great return policy so that you can experience the color of the stone and see how you feel.

I agree.

I wear an O/P and I love it. But, I didn't know I would love it until I had it in my hands.

True. You can't exactly predict how the color will look to you.

 

[fridays_child]

Hi Tuffy, I just bought an old stone, the grading on the EGL certificate says K, the local appraiser (who says he uses GIA standards) put it at L. My skin is naturally a light-medium golden tone, and next to my skin the stone looks quite white and bright. It's a creamy white, not cold icy white though. You can see that most people looking at old stones love this warmer-white, it really is beautiful. In the process of buying my stone I also look at three other stones in person, all around 2ct+, a J, and L, and an OP/QR. The OP/QR was really warm and yellow-looking to me, I ruled that one out pretty much immediately, and I was looking for a warm stone. I can tell you that every stone I saw had different light characteristics, and I'm guessing with the IJKL range you can't really come up with a hard and fast rule as to whether or not the stone will face up "white". Unfortunately you have to see the stone in person to be sure, but I think the experts here say that a well-cut stone faces up white and bright, and from what I've seen that seems to be true.

Here are pictures of that stone, page 2 of this thread shows the bright white face up:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/just-another-oec.172744/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/just-another-oec.172744/[/URL]

I have another old stone in a vintage ring, a .86ct L. I would say 95% of the time the stone looks white in it's platinum setting with single cut I melee. Almost always, from regular viewing distance the stone "blends in" to the rest of the ring, and the whole thing looks white (or grey because of the platinum). In indirect, dim natural light when I look closely I can see that the stone is warmer than the rest of the ring. There's a close crop here where that is very clear: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vintage-platinum-diamond-ring-why-are-prongs-warmer-colored.173188/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vintage-platinum-diamond-ring-why-are-prongs-warmer-colored.173188/[/URL]

Both stones can be seen together in the first thread I posted. My "new" K stone is so much brighter, it puts the L to sleep when they're side by side. The difference in size has something to do with it, but the K is cut much better as well.

Someone made the suggestion about buying from a place with a good return policy, I think that is a good idea. Also, you can tell your vendor your are looking for a stone that faces up white, they'll point you in the right direction. Old World Diamonds gives you 10 days, and Jewels by Erica Grace gives you 3 days to return, fyi.

Antique stones are really special, I think. I know everyone's taste is different, but if an icy white large RB dropped into my hands somehow, I'd have no hesitation selling it to buy a soft white antique stone, the facets on old stones are incredibly beautiful Hope the above helps, have fun deciding!

 

[fridays_child]

I would agree that it's totally personal preference, though I have seen quite a few older cuts in much lower colors appear totally white to me, so much so that I was shocked by their color grade. I think with old stones, you can't rule one out solely based on color. You might miss a great stone that way. FWIW, my oval is an E. I wasn't looking for an E (heck, I wasn't even looking for a stone!), but it doesn't have that icy whiteness to me that an E in a modern cut would have...now, I wouldn't go paying for an E if you can find similarly faceted stones in the lower range that you love...you'll pay a lot less for it!

Yenny your oval stone is amazing! I'd like to see an old oval or pear in real life one day.

 

[Tuffy]

thanks for everyone's comments. V informative indeed. Unfortunately for me, I am in Singapore so I don't get to see any vintage stones IRL. I was reading some fairly good reviews on GOG - anyone has got comments on their products?

 

[ecf8503]

I was reading some fairly good reviews on GOG - anyone has got comments on their products?

I've purchased from them (an AVC to be exact). I've seen 3 different AVC's, an E (which I returned because of an eye-visible inclusion), an L (which I had for a few months), and my current is a G.

FOR ME, the L was too warm - it blended into my skin a little too much, and it just wasn't for me. I'd rather go deeper in color then an L so it actually has some body color that looks intentional (if that makes sense), or as I did went whiter. The G I have now is perfect for me.

GOG has always been very easy to deal with - as I said, I've exchanged / returned stones before with no problem. The nice thing also is that they provide so much information on the quality of the cut of the stone, and can even make videos to compare things like cut and color (in fact there are tons of existing videos showing these things, but if you are interested in a specific stone I'm sure they could shoot it for you). I'd highly recommend them.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

thanks for everyone's comments. V informative indeed. Unfortunately for me, I am in Singapore so I don't get to see any vintage stones IRL. I was reading some fairly good reviews on GOG - anyone has got comments on their products?

I would highly recommend Good Old Gold's August Vintage line for it's excellent cut quality with the charm of the old cuts. I just have a round brilliant from them but have looked at some of the AV rounds and they were beautiful! I'd love an AV cushion someday!

 

[Tuffy]

I noticed that many have purchased the august vintage cushion but less of the rounds. or am I mistaken? I was looking at the results of their technical light performance tests and it seems that the rounds have more sparkle. I wonder if anyone can share their experience.

 

[ZahraLeyla]

I have a GIA O/P old mine brilliant diamond set into a pink and white diamond double halo. Most of my friends have high-coloured (D-G), smaller (under 1 carat) modern cuts (round brilliant or princess) set in solitaire settings. No one has said anything about my diamond looking yellow/dark/tinted/not white. All they focus on is the size and the setting. No one has been able to pick that it isn't a modern cut, either.

My diamond certainly doesn't look blue-white like the higher colours do, but I definitely wouldn't call it yellow or dark. I have found that it mostly looks like what its surroundings look like, and it reflects a lovely rainbow of pastel colours most of the time. However, my jeweller commented that it does face up very white for its colour, which is a good reminder that colour is graded side-on, and so may not be that noticeable face up.

I'm in Australia, and like the OP, didn't have the opportunity to try old cuts on before I bought this stone. I don't regret it at all, though of course I was a bit nervous about it. My advice is to find a vendor you trust (and GOG/JbEG certainly fall into their category) and have them explain and show exactly what the diamond looks like in different lights so that you can feel confident that you know what you're getting.

At the end of the day, most people know next to nothing about diamonds (myself included!), and really only notice the size. No one is going to walk around with a set of GIA master stones to assess diamond colour on the spot! Trying to figure out how comfortable you'd be with a lower colour diamond isn't an easy thing when you can't rely on the local market to educate you, but GOG and JbEG are fantastic vendors who will go out of their way to make you feel confident about what you're getting.

Good luck!

 

[bright ice]

I have a GIA M colored OEC and I have to say that it faces up fairly white while I can certainly see the warmth from the side, I don't mind in the least. A little warmth certainly makes one more affordable especially as you go up in size.

 

[Gypsy]

I had an L that was really white in most light. And it had a candlelight color in others. I thought it was perfect.

I did see an EGL M that was really more of an N/O color and that wasn't for me.

So I think you have to see them in person to decide what works for you.

 

[vinjewels]

I have an M colored OEC. My friends' eyes popped out and didn't believe me when I told them the color. I had to hold my ring up to their MRB G colored stone to prove it. They now like old stones better and are hitting their husbands up for upgrades. FOR ME, the colorless MRB is too harsh. I like the slower rainbow color flashes the chunkier cuts throw off.
So, ditto what everyone else said

 

[DivaDiamond007]

I have an EGL L antique cushion and it's a soft candlelight white in direct sun and more off white in most lighting conditions. It's set in a fairly open basket setting and you can definitely see body color when viewed from the side, which I love

I am no expert, but I think with older cut stones you really need to view them in person before making a decision as far as what color you are comfortable with.