Value of re-sale diamond

[sparklynurse]

Hi lovely Pricescopers! I've been a lurker for a while but now am looking for some expert advice. I have an opportunity to purchase a lovely little firecracker and need to ensure that I'm neither overpaying nor cheating the seller.

This diamond was purchased by my DIL's brother for his girlfriend but, sadly, she broke off the engagement. I have advised him to wait a few months before selling in case things can be worked out but he is insistent on selling. I have not yet seen it in person but it sounds good on paper. It's a .75 ct GIA triple x D VVS2.



He paid approx $5,000 cdn for the diamond and another $500 or so for the simple 18K gold setting. I was thinking of offering him $3,000 cdn for the ring. He was initially going to try a pawn shop but I said absolutely not! Anyhow, do you think this is a fair offer for the ring? Thank you all for your advice.

 

[ringo865]

The bulk of the price he paid was for D VVS. Run some comps on the banner at the top ^. Divide by two for “preowned”. Or see what a pawn shop will offer him and tell him you’ll buy it for another 20% above that.

Though it is GIA excellent cut, I’m not a fan of the 31% crown angle. So I (personally) would pass unless it was under $1k USD

 

[sparklynurse]

Thank you for the reply. I agree that he paid for D VVS2 and I noted that the crown angle was not great but I don't know enough about diamonds to understand how this affects overall performance. I'm going to take your advice and look at some comps.

At least it seems that I'm probably offering too much and could reduce the offer and still be OK.

 

[Bron357]

I suspect a pawnshop will offer around $1,800 - $2,000, they’ll probably only give 70% of current gold melt value for the ring part. They would then look at selling the diamond and ring at around $3,000 plus.
If you don’t want to buy the diamond, he could expect to get more, like in the $3,000 range, from a private seller ie Loupe Troop - but that might take time. It’s a nice diamond, the colour and clarity will be very attractive to a lot of people even though strictly speaking and according to “PS preferred standards” not especially great.
Your brother has paid a premium for D - VVS2 whereas most buyers would prefer to get a lower colour to get a bigger size diamond.
Good luck.

 

[peacechick]

Have you seen the diamond and would you like a diamond of that size? Or just want to help him out since he’s clearly going to lose money on this. Since it’s family (DIL’s family counts, right?), it’s nice of you to take the ring off his hands but he should definitely visit the pawnshop and research his options so that he would be satisfied with your offer and feel that it was generous.

 

[sparklynurse]

Have you seen the diamond and would you like a diamond of that size? Or just want to help him out since he’s clearly going to lose money on this. Since it’s family (DIL’s family counts, right?), it’s nice of you to take the ring off his hands but he should definitely visit the pawnshop and research his options so that he would be satisfied with your offer and feel that it was generous.

I haven't seen the diamond yet - he's bringing it over on Sunday. Right now the plan is for me to help him figure out how to minimize his losses. My husband actually suggested that I buy it and maybe reset it into a pendant.

I agree with previous posters that he paid for colour and clarity. I personally think it's overkill and he could have paid less for the same size stone with lower colour and clarity and perfect cut and still have had an impressive ring. In any event, if I do decide to make an offer after seeing it, I will still advise him to wait a bit before selling it. That will give him some time to go to several different pawn shops and research his options so he feels comfortable with my offer. And you never know, maybe his ex will change her mind.

 

[OoohShiny]

The lower crown angle will reduce opportunities for dispersion and, hence, fire (AIUI) so it is likely to major more on white light return than coloured fire.

It's not too far off a 60/60, which I understand has that characteristic, along with good spread.

The HCA tool on the Tools tab above gives it a score of 4.3 - Good, only if price is your main criterion.


I fully appreciate that you don't want to see your family done out of good money by some jeweler, but you also must balance against what it is worth on the secondhand market if you want to make an offer. Previous posters have offered excellent advice above on this IMHO

Whatever happens, I hope it all works out well in the end!

 

[TreeScientist]

First off, sorry to hear about the broken engagement. Never a good experience for anyone involved, and it's very nice of you to try and help him with selling the ring so he doesn't get caught up in his emotions and try to dump it quickly at a pawn shop where he would lose even more money.

Regarding the ring, he definitely overpaid for the diamond. I imagine he went to a B&M store? The stone is definitely not worth $5k retail. Even with is being D/VVS2, the stone is pretty terrible cut-wise. Just as a comparison, you could get a D/VVS1 that actually has decent proportions and an HCA score less that 2 for $3.6K retail:
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/196000405

I'd say that diamond is worth $3k retail MAX. Divide by 2 and add $100 for melt value of the setting and I'm guessing he would be very lucky to get $1600 at the pawn shop.

I wouldn't give him more than $2.5K for the diamond and ring together, and that's being nice. $3k would be very generous, but hey, if you're close to him then you could think of it as a "gift" to make him feel less crummy about the break-up.

 

[TreeScientist]

Ah, just saw that you were referencing Canadian dollars. Whoops! Well, in that case, at least he didn't overpay THAT much. And your potential offer of $3k CDN seems reasonable. (about $2.4k USD, right?)

I do think that your suggestion to go to several different pawn shops to see what they would offer him is probably best. My guess is he would be lucky to get an offer of $2K CDN from one of them. After he has assessed what he could get on the open market and also taken a little time to cool down (never good to sell something when you're still emotional) then you could come to him with a reasonable offer if you're still interested in purchasing.

 

[sledge]

Good catch @TreeScientist. For everyone else, today's currency exchange puts the value as follows:

• $5,000 CDN = $3,800 USD brand new

That's within a few hundred dollars USD of the FourMine stone listed. Ignoring cut quality, the price for a 0.73ct D VVS2 seems reasonable, especially for a local B&M.

Unfortunately, the cut quality is the problem. I am not certain how long the couple had been engaged, but it seems many local B&M's offer a guarantee of sorts that she'll say yes or they will buy back the stone. I've seen/heard offers all over the place -- 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 100%, 80%, 90%, etc.

IMO, that should be his first consideration because if they will give him 70%+ of his money back, that will be his best and most hassle free option -- especially if it's a cash back offer/refund. Even if they will offer 100% store credit, that might be a better deal as I'm assuming the guy is somewhat young and will eventually fall in love again and propose to a different girl. I always prefer cash today over credit in the future, but depending on the exact circumstances, this could be a scenario where it would make sense to take store credit instead.

If those options are off the table, and you still consider buying it here is some technical information for you to chew on and why I think you should NOT buy this diamond, unless you are doing it purely to help him out of a tough financial situation and have low to zero expectations of making your money back.

• Large table + shallow crown = less fire
• As the table gets bigger, so does the reflection of the table facet which most consider distracting and can take away from the brightness of the diamond
  
• Pavilions > 41 will start to leak light
• 40.6 pavilion = 42.5% pavilion depth (math works to 42.8%, but GIA rounds down)
• 40.8 pavilion = 43% pavilion depth
• 41 pavilion = 43.5% pavilion depth
• This stone has a 41.8 pavilion and 44.5% pavilion depth per the GIA cert
• Pavilion depths > 44% are unacceptable to most people

Some additional reading for you:
https://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/crown-angle/
https://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/pavilion-depth-table/

Deep Pavilion Light Leakage

56 vs 58 table

Pavilion Depths

 

[sparklynurse]

Thank you everyone for your replies! I really do appreciate them. @sledge thank you for this info! I'm going to read through it. Yes, he did buy this at a B&M store and, while I'm not sure if they offer any kind of credit, I do think it's worth his while to ask. Failing that, I'm going to encourage him to list it on Loupetroop and see if anyone is interested.

I've decided to pass on the ring - I can't get over the poor cut quality and even if it's something I wont readily notice knowing this would bother me. I did tell him (via my DIL) to come to this site and consult with the experts before he purchased it and I was told that it was all in hand Obviously he didn't listen.

 

[sledge]

Sorry we didn't have better news on the cut quality to share with you. I do wish he had came here first. If he had we could have lead him to a great cut quality and excellent monetary value, quite possibly with a retailer that has a buy back policy of some sort.

I know you wanted to help him but sometimes when we are guided through the process to correct or rectify a situation that is way more helpful than just throwing money at a problem. Money makes it go faster and painless, but frequently robs us of the learning experience.

LOL, as you might have guesses I've had to live through some mistakes of my own. They were painful but helped mold me in many ways. Hopefully he too will get some positive life experience from what I'm sure he feels is a disaster right now.

Kudos to you and your husband for being there. Keep the faith!

 

[TreeScientist]

Sorry we didn't have better news on the cut quality to share with you. I do wish he had came here first. If he had we could have lead him to a great cut quality and excellent monetary value, quite possibly with a retailer that has a buy back policy of some sort.

I know you wanted to help him but sometimes when we are guided through the process to correct or rectify a situation that is way more helpful than just throwing money at a problem. Money makes it go faster and painless, but frequently robs us of the learning experience.

LOL, as you might have guesses I've had to live through some mistakes of my own. They were painful but helped mold me in many ways. Hopefully he too will get some positive life experience from what I'm sure he feels is a disaster right now.

Kudos to you and your husband for being there. Keep the faith!

One of my favorite quotes about money:

"Money is never spent to so much advantage as when you have been cheated out of it; for at one stroke you have purchased prudence."
-Arthur Schopenhauer

I think we've all been in situations where we've made poor decisions with money. Not saying he was cheated out of money in this situation, but the monetary loss on the purchase will certainly sting. But the more it stings, the more you learn from it.

 

[sparklynurse]

One of my favorite quotes about money:

"Money is never spent to so much advantage as when you have been cheated out of it; for at one stroke you have purchased prudence."
-Arthur Schopenhauer

This is a great quote!

My husband is a real softie and I think he thought it would kill two birds with one stone - a nice diamond project for me and a helping hand for this young man. I learned a LOT on this site over the last couple of days and am grateful for the help provided. It was a real eye opener learning that GIA triple x doesn't always mean a superior cut - I'm pretty sure most consumers would be surprised to know that.

I have three sons, the oldest is married and he and his wife put all of their money into a house (so no e-ring) the two youngest are still living at home and had to listen to me rant about the money wasted on this diamond. You better believe that all three will be coming to this site when the time comes to purchase an engagement diamond!