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Value of European cut diamonds?

miagracie

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
65
I found this link to a seller of European cut diamonds. I am not interested in buying from them but in valuing a stone in a ring I'm thinking of getting. Do these values sound about right? Any better, more accurate values sites?


http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/view.php?SHAPE=EU&PAGE=4&SORT=WEIGHT

Are European cut diamonds a better diamond or value compared to comparatively weighted round brilliant? Which would you chose, why & why not.

See my post below for more info on the vintage european cut ring I'm considering at $1,400 for a 0.70 center with about 1/4-1/3 side stones in 14k.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vintage-european-w-side-stones-or-modern-plain-solitaire.166239/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vintage-european-w-side-stones-or-modern-plain-solitaire.166239/[/URL]
 

miagracie

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
65
One more question, in the same carat weight, do european or round brilliant diamonds look "bigger" (wider, more finger coverage)?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
OWD charges more than I would pay. His prices are to me high retail. If you are looking for a good vendor I'd call JBEG.
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,448
Old Euro cut diamonds, just like all other diamonds, can be cut too deeply and look small, too shallow and look very large, and with normal depth, too. How they are cut, their unique qualioty of cut, does have a vast effect on how nice each one looks. Some fail to look good and others look as good as, some might even say better, than competing modern cuts. It is a matter of taste.

Most older cut diamonds still get recut today to modern proportions. They lose weight in the process and , in theory, get better looking. The do become more widely saleable becuase more folks look for modern cut stones, but the appearance issue is open to personl judgement.

An old Euro cut is NEVER worth less than what it would recut to as a well cut modern cut. Sometimes it is worth just as much and on rare occasions, for really fine examples, even may bring a premium over a relatively equal modern cut, but this would be unusual. Since most old Euro cuts require recutting and loss of some weight to become the possible modern cut trapped inside, the large majority of them are less costly per carat before cutting than their value per carat after proper recutting.

There is no easy formula on how to compare them to modern cut diamonds. Each old cut needs to be analyzed to estimate the outcome of a cutting procedure to get to the base of how they might be valued. I hope this explains the situation.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,822
The usual way appraisers value things it to estimate what it would cost to buy or make something similar elsewhere, and the direct way to do that is exactly what you’re doing. Shop elsewhere. There are other options available and the difference depends on how you define ‘value’. How much you could expect to realize on resale, how much you could take off on your taxes if you donated it to a museum, what you could expect to get on a recut are all perfectly reasonable questions, all could be called the ‘value’, and they routinely are very different answers. One choice if you want a value is to hire an appraiser to do the legwork for you but if you want to do it yourself, the first step it to make sure you understand the definition of value that’s going to apply. Often, that alone leads to the other answers you need.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Old old thread, but is this still the way, given the popularity on Pricescope anyway and in Hollywood, that old cut diamonds
are valued, by judging them as to how much they would be as a roundcut?
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,448
Old European cut diamonds, round outline stones have a modern cut, triple excellent cut trapped inside them, if recut. That is their minimum value less the cost of recutting and keeping in mind the weight that would be lost. They can be worth more, as-is, but not less than their recut value.

Old mine cuts have the same sort of minimum value potential if one looks to recutting them in a way that would retain a reasonable retained weight with a modern faceting style and standard shape compatible with their current shape outline. Many old mine stones lose far more weight in recutting to modern, but just like rounds, they cannot be worth less than what cutters would agree is their modern cut, best outcome. One must keep in mind their potential for high weight loss and the lack of standards for deciding the proper proportions of cushion cut, pear, marquise, etc. This further muddies the waters. Generally speaking, old mine cuts have a lower value for any given weight-color-clarity combination than identical weight-color-clarity round diamonds. Keep in mind, every rule has the occasional exception, too.

These rules do not apply to valuable fancy color diamonds, especially the best intensities and especially the rarest of colors.

Since the market determines the "value", and the market acts in nearly complete freedom, one must usually conclude the value of old cuts to modern cuts is based on all the many factors that buyers and sellers can compare and comprehend. It is a very complex dance with more than just color, clarity and weight. You have shape, fluorescence, subjective beauty, symmetry, polish, girdle, culet, transparency, rarity, eye-cleanliness, abrasions, open blemishes and probably a few more things that the market adjusts for in an automatic way that cannot just be pumped into an easy answer. In the end, diamonds which the free market deems as 'equal" should command equal amounts of money, but the market being complex and imperfect may often not quite get it right at the moment you want to make a purchase. That's why shopping, knowledge and experts can help, but the chance of still having a bit of doubt is still present even under the best of conditions.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,995
Oldminer|1464357153|4036938 said:
Old European cut diamonds, round outline stones have a modern cut, triple excellent cut trapped inside them, if recut. That is their minimum value less the cost of recutting and keeping in mind the weight that would be lost. They can be worth more, as-is, but not less than their recut value.

Old mine cuts have the same sort of minimum value potential if one looks to recutting them in a way that would retain a reasonable retained weight with a modern faceting style and standard shape compatible with their current shape outline. Many old mine stones lose far more weight in recutting to modern, but just like rounds, they cannot be worth less than what cutters would agree is their modern cut, best outcome. One must keep in mind their potential for high weight loss and the lack of standards for deciding the proper proportions of cushion cut, pear, marquise, etc. This further muddies the waters. Generally speaking, old mine cuts have a lower value for any given weight-color-clarity combination than identical weight-color-clarity round diamonds. Keep in mind, every rule has the occasional exception, too.

These rules do not apply to valuable fancy color diamonds, especially the best intensities and especially the rarest of colors.

Since the market determines the "value", and the market acts in nearly complete freedom, one must usually conclude the value of old cuts to modern cuts is based on all the many factors that buyers and sellers can compare and comprehend. It is a very complex dance with more than just color, clarity and weight. You have shape, fluorescence, subjective beauty, symmetry, polish, girdle, culet, transparency, rarity, eye-cleanliness, abrasions, open blemishes and probably a few more things that the market adjusts for in an automatic way that cannot just be pumped into an easy answer. In the end, diamonds which the free market deems as 'equal" should command equal amounts of money, but the market being complex and imperfect may often not quite get it right at the moment you want to make a purchase. That's why shopping, knowledge and experts can help, but the chance of still having a bit of doubt is still present even under the best of conditions.
Great post, thanks Oldminer :)
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,129
The gap in cost between nice OECs and mrb has significantly decreased since this thread was posted. Good OECs are pretty high from dealers now.
 
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