Urgent! Quality of thenaturalsapphireco's Jewelry??

[firebirdgold]

I''m supposed to give my bf a list of places and guidelines for buying an e-ring tonight. This will very likely be my last input into the process. I''m guessing he has a budget of $2,500, and I don''t believe in upgrades. (Big shiny anniversary rings, yes). The quality of the mounting is really really important to me since I have a background in jewelry.

I love Sapphires (blues, pads, greens), and we can certainly afford something nice and smallish from thenaturalsapphirecompany.com . But I have no idea what their jewelry quality is like.
Has anyone seen one of these rings in person??

My bf knows nothing about jewelry and needs a painless experience.


Please help me!

 

[Kaleigh]

They have an excellent reputation here. You can search for threads and see what people said about them. Just type in thenaturalsapphireco in the search box and they will come up. Good luck!!

 

[firebirdgold]

They have an excellent reputation for their sapphires and customer service, but none of the searches I''ve done have mentioned the quality of their metal jewelry. Maybe I''m not looking in the right places or not reading far enough down on the searches?

 

[Hest88]

I only know of their stones, not their jewelry. Can''t your BF buy the stone, have it put in a temporary setting, and give you the time to look for a wedding set?

 

[valeria101]

Quick, non-professional, hobbyist's opinion: some of the settings are more 'sapphire holder' than fine jewelry in their own right. Some are quite great.

I liked the microset halos (not sure all come from the same source though), some of the -ready-made three stone rings (esp. the platinum ones) and definitely the pseudo-Buccellati bands and rings and there are some simple bezel settings made by a German designer (name escapes - they mention). Not so hot... the solitaires (=those really inspired the 'sapphire holder' line above), some of the lacy filigree settings with tiny diamonds and more than one color of gold... maybe others.

Their larger stones get all-out royal treatment - the settings are just as fine as the superb stones. Meaning, if you asked, any quality should be readily available for any stone: as far as I know, jewelry is always a separate order - the pieces listed on the same page with each sapphire are only a loose recommendation.

I suspect some of the more sophisticated custom pieces are made by none other than Leon's Art of Platinum workshop - but I can't know how many or which things come from there. It so happens that a couple of large rings appeared in both catalogs. - this is all the hunch is based on.

Hope this helps a bit. This really is the little I would know to put to use for myself - 'wish I knew better.

Fingers crossed for the ring and congratulations for the happy occasion!

PS. you wouldn't happen to like this one below, would you? (#J145 ) This isn't a recommendation, just curious... because it looks particularly lovely to me.

 

[E B]

Nevermind. Trying to fix link.

J220 is the one I'm drooling over. On the 4th page of the "Above 1 carat" category. Here's a link to the picture:

http://thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/images/Jewelry/Ring/J220_1

 

[firebirdgold]

Thanks valeria, that's really helpful. It sounds like the ones I like the best are the not so great ones.

It's the romantic open work I like on this one.

And I can see that the gems don't flow smoothly on this next one, there's too big of a gap between the prong heads.

I'm fond of this art deco one, what do you think?

I guess part of the problem is that I would truely love a sapphire from them, but set into something from jewelryexperts.com. But their work seems so expensive. Ah well, I don't really know what the budget is and maybe the tax refund can help. I guess it couldn't hurt to ask. The whole gem first and setting later won't work with him. I know he wants to pick it out and surprise me with the whole package. It seems to be really important to him. I'm just trying to minimize the possiblity of, well, poor construction.

 

[E B]

Firebird,

You could also have the sapphire of your choice set in a WF setting, I''m sure. Something like this:

http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Solitaire/X-Prong-in-18k-White-Gold_767.htm

...or this?

http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Diamond-Settings/Platinum-Cathedral-Pave-Ring_929.htm

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 1/23/2006 2:38:48 PM
Author:firebirdgold
The quality of the mounting is really really important to me since I have a background in jewelry.

Reading your question and responses to it, may I ask just what you have in mind when you say "quality?"

As a jeweler and designer I think of "quality" in terms of shank and prong thickness and strength, the execution of polish or texturing, and attention to little details like clean and precise azuring, good setting technique and other matters involving the functionality and durability of the jewelry.

Many responses seem to deal with the overall design, which to me is an entirely separate thing that usually reflects the buyer/owner''s own tastes. Certainly there are quality differences in the way certain techniques like micro-pave are executed. Just for my own guidance I''d appreciate comment from others without hijacking the thread.

Richard M.

 

[firebirdgold]

I like bezels but that style is a bit thick for an e-ring, and the other is a bit too dainty for me. (And my habits)

The whiteflash could be a good idea. I really like the x-prong style, partic with channel set diamonds: http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Diamond-Settings/X-Prong-Channel_781.htm

I''m not convinced on how the shank flows into the er.. whatever it''s called. the ring around the pavillion. ... The more I look at it the better I like it. I''ve heard good things about whiteflash, so I assume the finish is really good through out? And maybe I could get it in palladium.. hmmm.
Thank you!

This is a great idea!

 

[firebirdgold]

Date: 1/23/2006 3:36:16 PM
Author: Richard M.

Date: 1/23/2006 2:38:48 PM

Author:firebirdgold

The quality of the mounting is really really important to me since I have a background in jewelry.

Reading your question and responses to it, may I ask just what you have in mind when you say 'quality?'


As a jeweler and designer I think of 'quality' in terms of shank and prong thickness and strength, the execution of polish or texturing, and attention to little details like clean and precise azuring, good setting technique and other matters involving the functionality and durability of the jewelry.


Many responses seem to deal with the overall design, which to me is an entirely separate thing that usually reflects the buyer/owner's own tastes. Certainly there are quality differences in the way certain techniques like micro-pave are executed. Just for my own guidance I'd appreciate comment from others without hijacking the thread.


Richard M.

I am mostly referring to that kind of quality as I am, or was, a jeweler. (Hand issues)

But also a lack of awkwardness in design. You could polish and fiddle with a Stuller tiffany setting until the cows come home, but it'd still be ungainly IMO.

 

[Hest88]

As a jeweler and designer I think of ''quality'' in terms of shank and prong thickness and strength, the execution of polish or texturing, and attention to little details like clean and precise azuring, good setting technique and other matters involving the functionality and durability of the jewelry.

Richard, that''s what I think of when it comes to quality as well. Problem is, you can''t be complete assured of quality without actually having it in your hands.

Firebirdgold, unfortunately "quality" is one of those things that cost, especially with ornate settings. Inexpensive quality may be found, but you''d have to search hard. Given his budget, and your tastes, I think you need to find the actual setting you want, show it to him, give him color parameters for the stone, and then let him take it from there. He won''t be able to judge quality in a ring, so you can''t leave it up to him if you don''t want to be disappointed.

 

[snotty_pie]

Good luck to you firebirdgold! Looks like we''re a bit in the same boat here, but I am happy to see that there are so many of us out there who want sapphire e-rings!

I really like the art deco one that you''ve posted earlier in the thread. Have you considered sourcing all of the stones yourself and then going into a B&M jeweler to get it all assembled?

Personally, we''re going with a local jeweler (haven''t chosen one yet) after getting our sapphire from Cherrypicked. I would love to send mine down to White Flash (actually, I lived 1/2 mile away from them for years when I lived in Houston!), but my guy would rather stay local for the setting.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 1/23/2006 3:36:16 PM
Author: Richard M.


Reading your question and responses to it, may I ask just what you have in mind when you say 'quality?'

[...]

Just for my own guidance I'd appreciate comment from others without hijacking the thread.

Quality... well, I am trying to think 'technicals', but with jewelry it is hard because there is no technical end to it. If it looks bad, it can be as sturdy or precise as it gets - who cares? So some style gets into the mix.

From my own work (nothing jewelry-related), it is clear enough that methods are not quite just 'means to an end' - they have allot to do with what goals are set to begin with. For lack of more suitable reference, I got to think the same about jewelry making - that some ways of making things fit some styles better than others and when 'pushed' it shows (e.g. lost wax casting used to carbon-copy everything that moves). Sure enough, I wouldn't know to get into detail, but hope some day either this forum or another will bring in the open what 'quality' means for those in the know.

 

[firebirdgold]

Well, I guess quality does cover a lot of things, at least in my mind.
For design, it''s how well the details are thought out. Are the proportions balanced? Do the different elements flow together right so it looks like a single piece, not bits stuck together? (I have a pet peeve about prong heads fitting flush against each other),
For pieces that have been cast: Was the wax carefully detailed by hand after it was taken from the mold? Are the lines crisp? For instance with an x-prong style, in place where the prongs cross the edges should be touched up with a graver or other tool to enhance the look of two wires crossing. It''s also a good time to make sure the windows or azuring are clean and symmetrical.
Is the piece well cast? Is there pitting in the metal. Will it take a nice finish?
In general: All parts of the ring should nicely finished and smooth without tool marks. (unless that is the finish). This includes all the hard to reach places, and the setting should have been at least semi-polished before setting the stones.
Is the sautering visible?
And then there''s good setting like level stones, clean and level channels, good contact, straight and symmetrical prongs. Stones with points should have a little pocket cut out of the setting to prevent chipping. Prongs are not set on facet angles, no metal burs, no gaps, etc.. It''s amazing how many things can go wrong with setting.
I guess really that it''s all those little details that take time and a bit of ocd!

 

[widget]

Hmm...back to the problem at hand...

My bf knows nothing about jewelry and needs a painless experience.

It does seem that the most painless way for him would be to get the mounting from NSC.

It''s a shame he doesn''t want your active involvement...I personally would be scared to death to pick out an Ering for a "jeweler-fiancee"!

Anyway, I''m sure the people at NSC could do anything you (or he) wants, provided the budget is big enough. Maybe he should specify that the mounting be custom fabricated and not a stock, cheapo piece?

Of the rings you posted above...I LOVE the deco one...

Keep us posted on how this all turns out!
widget

 

[BeckyC]

My fiance and I got our engagement ring from NSC a few months ago. It''s a 2-ct round stone; we had them mount it in a solitaire setting. We did so expecting that it would probably be temporary; we knew it could take forever to find a setting we really loved (or at least to find the time to find such a setting!), and I didn''t want to wait to wear the stone!

I think the workmanship is fine, although I notice things about the ring itself that I don''t love--the prongs are a little thick, for one thing. But that''s probably just the style. Also, the tips that come over the top of the stone are not perfectly symmetrical with respect to one another.

We are still trying to figure out how what kind of setting we really want...although I love the stone, I''m just not sure the look of the solitaire setting is the best thing for it. Maybe because it''s not as delicate as some other settings? I kind of wanted to stay away from diamonds, but in that case a more interesting setting (I like the ones at jewelryexpert.com, and a few Brian Sholdt settings seem really nice) is probably the way to go. (If anyone has any opinions about that, I''d welcome them!)

Now I''m going to try to post pictures of the ring...

 

[BeckyC]

Another picture...

 

[BeckyC]

One last picture.

--Becky

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 1/23/2006 7:07:09 PM
Author: firebirdgold

For design, it''s how well the details are thought out. Are the proportions balanced? Do the different elements flow together right so it looks like a single piece, not bits stuck together? (I have a pet peeve about prong heads fitting flush against each other),

For pieces that have been cast: Was the wax carefully detailed by hand after it was taken from the mold? Are the lines crisp? For instance with an x-prong style, in place where the prongs cross the edges should be touched up with a graver or other tool to enhance the look of two wires crossing. It''s also a good time to make sure the windows or azuring are clean and symmetrical.

Is the piece well cast? Is there pitting in the metal. Will it take a nice finish?

In general: All parts of the ring should nicely finished and smooth without tool marks. (unless that is the finish). This includes all the hard to reach places, and the setting should have been at least semi-polished before setting the stones.

Is the sautering visible?

And then there''s good setting like level stones, clean and level channels, good contact, straight and symmetrical prongs. Stones with points should have a little pocket cut out of the setting to prevent chipping. Prongs are not set on facet angles, no metal burs, no gaps, etc.. It''s amazing how many things can go wrong with setting.

I guess really that it''s all those little details that take time and a bit of ocd!

LOL -- it seems to me you''ve mentioned quite a few of the "technicals" Ana doesn''t seem to think exist! I could add a ton more.

I think there are two kinds of quality: the quality of design and the quality of manufacture, whether by casting or hand-fabrication. Casting only seems simple to those who''ve never done it, or who''ve never designed and made a wax model!

The reason I asked the question originally was to bring out the semantics question. For instance, the Stuller Tiffany mount you mentioned above that you say could never be made to look good. I''ve never bought a Stuller setting that was sub-par in terms of structural quality and durability. But some of the designs? Well, different strokes for different folks. Who knows, I might love their Tiffany-style mounts. Basically, design "quality" is in the eye of the customer and a very personal matter.


The comments so far have been very interesting. Thanks to all.

Richard M.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 1/23/2006 8:50:09 PM
Author: Richard M.


LOL -- it seems to me you've mentioned quite a few of the 'technicals' Ana doesn't seem to think exist! I could add a ton more.

Me and my confusing posts... no, I didn't mean to say technical quality doesn't matter. Only that it is not easy for me to tell what matters in general, rather than taking one piece at a time. Here's an example:

Take the good old X-prong: between one setting with the prongs fabricated and one more or less finished to look that way, how long does it take to tell which is what? The not-so nicely finished ones have nothing of the intended cross-wire look... So, it would be easy to say that this type of setting looks nicer fabricated. But then, some obviously beautiful versions of the traditional design do not fit with the rule of thumb at all (thinking of some designs by Paul Gross and Ron Davidson mentioned earlier on Pricescope).

Thanks for lining up some of the things to look for !

 

[Richard M.]

Sorry if I misconstrued your post, Ana. You highlight something I tried to write about briefly but edited out as awkward before I posted. That is: bad bench execution of a good design.

I think physical ''quality'' factors are easily identifiable and measurable: stones set level, prongs same width and length and don''t snag clothing, bezels closed neatly with no wrinkles and preferably gravered for clean corners and edges, karatage and alloy color accurate, no casting porosity, bubbles or mold-marks; no flashing in the azuring or elsewhere and so on. Bad execution of a design would probably fall into this category.

But I think the ''quality'' of a design is subjective and not something everyone would agree on. Certainly some designs are more popular than others but there''s always someone who falls madly in love with a pocket-ripper of a ring someone else hates. That''s why I don''t think the two standards can be grouped together. But that''s just me and my objective was to find out how others think about those matters.

Richard M.

 

[elmo]

Richard, thanks for pointing this out. My idea of ''quality'' is similar to yours I think. Most of the time, even if I don''t care for a design, if I pick up a piece and all the execution details are just so, my heart beats faster for just a second

.

Firebirdgold, Arnstein would gladly send you something finished to look at if you wanted to get an idea about the sort of work they do.

 

[lucious librarian]

Hi Firebirdgold!

You are asking the same question I am.

My guy and I got our stone from http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com.

We too have been questing for a setting, which apparently can range from moderate to crazy expensive in this market. We are thinking it best to go back to the NSC to do the setting as well. The reasoning is this:I emailed a few designers recommended here on Pricescope and received a few discouraging replys.

To quote one highly recommended jeweler: "Thanks for your inquiry. Just to let you know, I do not take any responsibility if your stone gets chipped or broken during the setting process..." (If anyone would like to know the name of this particular jeweler, let me know.)

WHAT!!!! I ask the forum now...is this normal? To not guarantee your work? Not carry any type of insurance for damage? What recourse do we have then?

My belief is that because we bought our stone from them, that they would guarantee the quality of their work. I am waiting on a response from NSC now on this very topic...which I will share with you all.
Here is our stone:

 

[lucious librarian]

Here is the setting I love. Good luck and let us know how it goes. Peace!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 1/24/2006 1:31:48 PM
Author: luscious librarian

To quote one highly recommended jeweler: 'Thanks for your inquiry. Just to let you know, I do not take any responsibility if your stone gets chipped or broken during the setting process...' (If anyone would like to know the name of this particular jeweler, let me know.)

WHAT!!!! I ask the forum now...is this normal? To not guarantee your work? Not carry any type of insurance for damage? What recourse do we have then?

Yeah... the statement is sort of blunt

, but this is not unusual.

Most of the time nothing is said about this 'what if' and nothing happens.

Mishaps like what you fear are not covered by the insurance of smaller shops, and if you ask specifically - this is the answer. Sure enough, the jeweler has even less interest than you to cause such damage. After all, you don't get to sign some paper renouncing your right to ask for damages either - it still is their responsibility to provide the service as expected, and why would anyone want to do a bad job...

Anyway, I bet the seller involved can clarify their position without any 'help' - if you say who it was. If many other shops would cover damages outright, this may be different... but as is, the list of shops willing to take responsibility for any damage outright are not that many.

 

[firebirdgold]

Update:
Well, I sent him the site list with example pics, and showed him the whiteflash site and NSC. And I got a clearer picture of how this is going to go. He wanted the info as a ''starting point'' for his own web-based research. He wanted an idea of what my tastes are in regards to color and general style. He does not want me to point out specific rings. Something along the lines of ''you''ll just analyze them, and this is about emotion''. (Which is a valid point. After all I did include close-up shots of the profile of two different x-prongs with a red circle around a spot illustrating why I prefered one setting over another. I just can''t help myself!)

So he seems to be pretty determined to choose something on his own, which is rather romantic IMO. It won''t happen anytime soon, tho, so let''s not get too excited. I think the only non-work related web-surfing he does these days is a news check while he''s waiting for the first cup of coffee to kick in! (Unexpected PhD deadline + fulltime research job = insanity.) There''s a good chance that the next time I hear about it will be in a few months when he proposes with ring in hand. Not, mind you, that this will prevent me from obsessing and drooling over my favorite sites!
Anyway, I feel somewhat reassured that the technical quality of the NSC mountings will be just fine. He knows how much I love sapphires so there is a good chance that NSC is the route he''ll take. And left to his own devices he is much more likely to pick something simple like a halo setting or the art-deco. (I made sure the art-deco NSC mounting was the largest pic in the email, heh heh). Those designs will probably ''age'' better for me than the more elaborate ones.
Thank you everyone for helping me feel confident that whatever e-ring comes my way will be lovely. (in regards to build quality)

 

[lucious librarian]

For inquiring minds the reputable jeweler was Linda Penwarden who emailed me directly. How disappointing. Speaking of chipping, there is another post entitled "Chipping Question." Oy Vay!