Urgent!! Need Help

[ccn]

Hi all,

I need to make a diamond purchase soon and was wondering if anyone out there could help me on analyzing info which I have received. They are both round brilliants.

Diamond #1
AGS 000
Cut 0
Color E
Clarity VS1
Weight .754 cts
5.81-5.83 X 3.64m
table 56%
total depth 62.5%
Girdle faceted 1.5% - 2.2%
crown angle 35.2 degrees
pavillion angle 41.0 degrees
crown height 15.6% (.91mm, from my own calculations)
pavillion height 43.3% (2.52mm, from my own calculations)
AGS report date 14 April 2004
Flourescence: Negligible
pointed culet
pinpoint on table
$3800 usd for the diamond, no refunds or guarantees on this diamond after purchase


Diamond #2
GIA
5.89-5.94 X 3.59mm
Weight: 0.74 ct
Depth 60.7%
Talbe 56%
Girdle: MED, F(aceted)
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Clarity: VS2
Color D
Fluorescence: None
Crystal on table and pinpoint, surface graining
crown height .91mm (15.38% , from own calculations)
depth 2.54mm (42.9%, from own calculations)
Girdle faceted 2.3% (from own calculations)
crown angle 35.9 degrees
pavillion angle 41.1 degrees
report date: April 6, 2004
$4000usd for the diamond, seller agrees to a full money back gurantee


I''m not sure which diamond I should purchase. Please correct my calculations if they are incorrect. For diamond 1, my concerns are it''s an E color, I was hoping for a D color, the diamond is too deep at 62.5%? and the seller does not want to guarantee the diamond. The price looks really good to me...but another problem, I haven''t seen the diamond, it has yet to be shipped from the US only if I wish to purchase the diamond. So I have no idea if this is a beautiful stone or not. From the Rapaport sheet I''m getting a quote of 5400usd per carat for an E VS1, therefore, 5400*.754=4071 usd according to rapaport pricing. Since the asking price is 3800 and it''s an ideal cut, it sounds too good to be true, should I be weary? perhaps no all the 8 crown angles are within the ideal range but their averages are which entitles AGS to grade this as an ideal cut, but yet not be truly ideal.

Concerns for diamond #2
No discount from Rapaport, expensive pricing scheme, perhaps it''s due to the fact that the seller is willing to give full money back guarantee. It''s a VS2 compared to a VS1. If you were wondering how I got the crown and pavillion numbers for a GIA diamond, I simply just called GIA.


I would really appreciate it if someone could help me analyze this stone for their proportions but how they work together to maximize brilliancy. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks in advance for your help and expertise!

CCN

 

[valeria101]

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On 4/27/2004 2:04:00 AM ccn wrote:



I would really appreciate it if someone could help me analyze this stone for their proportions but how they work together to maximize brilliancy. Any help would be appreciated!

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Not sure what good the Rap does here !

In terms of color and clarity these would be indistinguishable in absence of grading conditions and to all but an experienced person (grader, jeweler, definitely not me and 99% not you either).

As for how the proportions work together... well, there are little things like DiamCalc and the HCA to help get a taste of this. It would be better to have the stone analyzed and a cut quality report in front (these proportions and Ex symmetry should deliver the respective Harts and Arrows pattern - I suppose). You might want to inspect the tutorial here, that on GoodOldGold.com and GIA papers on diamond cut for some ref on what I am talking about...

Does this make sense?

I surely understand your concern about the 'averaging' out of those measures - however, the Ex symmetry insures that the variation of the respective numbers is well in check - as much as technically feasible, really. Worse still, the respective angles do not account at all for the cut of minor facets - this is why nothing beats having a stone with the full cut quality pedigree in place. Also, this is why there are appraisers and return periods for these online sales - the best representation (picture, numbers, model and otherwise) still cannot completely avert 'screen shock'.

All in all... there must be a H&A with all bells and whistles there for you

 

[valeria101]

For example... on the HCA "cut adviser" these diamonds rank as rather mediocre: the first gets a "Good buy if the price is right" comment and a score of 3, and the second gets a rather undesirable "Good only if price is you main criterion" and a rather undesirable 4.8 score.

On this ranking system (which models the interplay of cut parameters, as you ask for), a score of 2 would be the lowest recommended to indicate good chance of top brilliace for a RBC. Score between 0 and 2 are meant to indicate more desirable stones.

If you ever wander what kind of analysis is available to communicate cur quality for a round diamond, you might want to look uo this LINK to 0.71 D-VS2 example. Crazy as it sounds, these guys seem to use 'em all

testing the poor diamonds to extinction

 

[strmrdr]

I would pass on both of them.
Neither one is well cut.
As val linked you can get a h&a super-ideal diamond in the same price range with a garentee and upgrade policies in place from www.goodoldgold.com or www.niceice.com or
www.whiteflash.com

You have nice budget dont spend it on bad cut diamonds you will see the difference.

 

[sunseeker]

There is no way I would buy a diamond without a 100% money back guarantee! Run away as fast as you can from that diamond and enlist the help of the experts here to help you find THE one. Good luck!

 

[aljdewey]

Ditto to Sunseeker's comments - no WAY would I buy a diamond without a money-back guarantee period.




Both diamonds border a steep/deep combo, and diamond 2 is even worse than diamond 1.




Shoot for a diamond with a 54-57 table, 34 to 34.9 crown angle, 40.6 to 40.9 pavilion angle.

 

[ccn]

Thanks for everyone's input. It is greatly appreicated!
Neither of the diamonds were found on internet sites. Now should I be considering this method of purchase? What about viewing the diamond prior to purchase is this important? I shall look into purchasing off the internet, but what about taxes and tariffs? If I purchase from the US there are heavy taxes for us Canadians (does anyone know the taxes/duties if they diamond were to be shipped to Taiwan?).

Interestingly enough even a triple ideal cut may not yield maximum brilliance. I have not idea of how to tell how well the proportions work together. Would I need to purchase the HCA software/program...or whatever it may be?

Would someone be so kind as to run one more diamond on a HCA analysis?

This is all the info that I have on hand.
AGS triple ideal
measurements 5.79-5.81 x 3.55mm
Color D
Clarity VS1
Weight: 0.723
Table 56%
Depth 61.2%
Crown angle 34.3 degrees
Pavillion angle 41.0 degrees
crown height 15.0%
pavillion height 43.3%
asking price 4000usd

Would this diamond show a HCA reading of 2 or lower? Could someone please help me with this? Thank you.

 

[ccn]

ps. I do have a copy of the certs for Diamond #1 and #2 right in front of me. Is this of any help?

 

[Nicrez]

Without a culet percent, it comes out to a 1.6 on the HCA: Holloway Cut Advisor

It rates as Excellent light return, with Fires, Scintillation, and spread being Very good, just below the excellent mark.

Not a bad performing stone, and it it's a good price you would have a lovely stone.

Out of curiosity, have you considered any stones below D and E color, as they may increase the number of well cut stones and show up just as white, if they are cut to tighter specifications?

It's really about the best light return on a RB, and when you have a WEL cut stone, that light return increases, and so the slight tinge of a G would be literally negligible, and you may be able to go up in size a bit if you wanted with the same budget. Just a thought...

 

[hoorray]

agreed with all above. The 3rd stone is the only one I would consider. It looks well cut, and that is what matters. A very well cut round stone makes the whiteness, clarity, and size look much better than comparable specs would in non-ideally cut stones, so you can give a little there in order to maximize cut.

You can run your onw HCA analysis by clicking on the cut advisor line at the top of the page. Good luck!

 

[ccn]

Great! Thanks for the info. I will talk in more details with the seller in more detail about the last stone. I was also told by the seller that if I had purchased the same stone a month ago it would have been 1000usd cheaper!! He's telling me that the prices have gone up and are still going up. Another seller told me diamond prices are at a 20-yr high. If this is true, should I hold off the buying for now?

No I have not considered a lower color grade. I'm actually not willing to really even settle for an E color. D is the color and a well cut diamond is what I'm after.

Yes, thank you for running the HCA results for me. How can I tell if a diamond is a well cut diamond if I only have the proportions and dimenions of a diamond. Is the HCA report one method or the only method.

Also, I wish to have an OGI report run on this diamond, but I can't seem to find any appraiser in town who will do this. Any recommended appraisers in the Vancouver, BC area?

Thanks!

 

[valeria101]

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On 4/28/2004 12:35:43 AM ccn wrote:




#1 Is the HCA report one method or the only method.

#2 Also, I wish to have an OGI report run on this diamond, but I can't seem to find any appraiser in town who will do this.

#3 Any recommended appraisers in the Vancouver, BC area?

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Point by point...

No, HCA is not the only or the most precise method of examining cut quality: this is just a 'first approach' instrument capable to help reject stones with low probability of delivering good brilliance. BrillianceScope, Isee2, Ideal SCope (or it's versions) and the H&A viewer (or other methods of grading Harts and Arrows) are also out there (did you see the link in my post?). Of all these the Isee2 tool grades both briliance and symmetry - so this sounds more like what you want.

OGI... I thought Jonathan uses it?


There are a few CanadianPS posters - would you care run a serch for their posts and PM for detils? Sorry I don't hvae a more precise idea, but PS is a good info mine, with the posts from the last few months making really good reference.

As for seeing diamonds - you have seen these and still asked for a review of their stats, right? It may make sense to select a stone online based on really tight 'numbers' and get it off cyberspace. You will definitely get to see it before the purchase becomes final...