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Urgent help needed! 2 stones, pink!

Discussion in 'Laboratory-Grown Diamonds /Man-Made Diamonds (MMD)' started by m92371, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. m92371
    Rough_Rock

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    by m92371 » Aug 26, 2019
    I've moved this post from the other forum, to here, as discussed in the original thread :)

    I need to know which one will appear noticeably more pink in person and also have more 'brilliance'. I must make a decision within the next 24 hours - please help me choose!!! :D

    OPTION 1 - 2.99ct:
    IGI: LG11096910
    https://igi.org/verify.php?r=LG11096910

    PIC 1: https://tinyurl.com/yywhur3n
    PIC 2: https://tinyurl.com/y4mctl76
    PIC 3 (iphone): https://tinyurl.com/y5p737h5
    VIDEO (professional): https://streamable.com/pihpz
    VIDEO (iphone): https://streamable.com/uzs81

    My personal observation: I cant figure out if this is just a poor real world photo, or if this stone really doesn't have a pink color at all/or any sparkle!

    -------------


    OPTION 2 - 3.01ct:

    IGI: LG10736909
    https://igi.org/verify.php?r=LG10736909

    VIDEO: https://v360.in/diamondview.aspx?cid=uniq&d=E64-2
    VIDEO 2 - This stone in sunlight: https://streamable.com/2o0s7
    (I do not have real-world pictures available)
    My personal observation: It looks pink in this 10x video, but I've seen a fancy orange-pink (not listed as 'light') in person, and that had a faint pink color. So, I'm worried about this.

    I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place - literally! I have no idea which to choose. I want the most eye-pink color with sparkle, and I have very limited time to make a decision! Please help!
     
    


    


  2. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 26, 2019
    What is the cost, who is selling them, and do they take returns?
     
  3. m92371
    Rough_Rock

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    by m92371 » Aug 26, 2019
    20k for each stone USD.

    First stone is NewWorldDiamonds and second is a Diamond broker (who is legitimate as I know them through good friends who have purchased also).

    I know the broker takes returns and NWD apparently do, also.

    I just want the stone which will be the most 'brilliant'/sparkling with good eye-pink color.

    My partner loves both based on the 10x professional videos.
     
  4. moneymeister
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by moneymeister » Aug 26, 2019
    HCA is not too excited about these cuts I keep double-checking to make sure I entered all the angles correctly.
    Annotation 2019-08-26 225928.gif
    chrome-capture 3.01.png
     
    


    


  5. m92371
    Rough_Rock

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    by m92371 » Aug 26, 2019
    Based on this, it appears the larger stone rates better, yet the overall score is 4.1 (lower)?

    I think I am leaning toward the 3.01ct for more sparkle compared to the 2.99
     
  6. moneymeister
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by moneymeister » Aug 26, 2019
    Please double check my input. I think I'm out of tries (use the cert) but both of these stones dont do well.
    https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
    "Scores of 0-1 are usually not best for rings. Most people prefer stones that score 1-2, or even top Hearts & Arrows symmetry stones up to 3.0. Zero is almost impossible since many performance factors conflict."
     
  7. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 26, 2019
    No, neither is better. Anything over 2 should be rejected. As I said previously, do not buy either of these.
     
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  8. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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  9. m92371
    Rough_Rock

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  10. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 26, 2019
    I know--I was just showing you options between 2-3 ct that are well proportioned. But again, this is all assuming that your GF wants a pink man made diamond.
     
    


    


  11. m92371
    Rough_Rock

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    by m92371 » Aug 26, 2019
    She doesnt mind how it is made, so that is ok.

    Is it really worth more than double the price, though?

    Seems very crazy and looks very very similar to the 3.01ct stone I have been shown.

    Do you think it will be noticeable in everyday life?

    The cheaper 3.01c being: https://v360.in/diamondview.aspx?cid=uniq&d=E64-2
    https://streamable.com/2o0s7
     
  12. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 26, 2019
    It will be noticeably better, but I don't know your budget and size requirements. I found other good options that are over 2ct (but under 3ct) in budget that will be significantly better. Has she said she needs a 3 ct stone?
     
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  13. m92371
    Rough_Rock

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    by m92371 » Aug 26, 2019
    My budget is pretty topped up right now. But I would hate to buy the 3.01ct stone which has a HCA score of 4 and not have it sparkle. That would be terrible. a flat stone.

    I was just offered this one:

    https://v360.in/diamondview.aspx?cid=uniq&d=B174-6

    https://tinyurl.com/y3rltmdz

    ^ I notice the polish is not rated too highly, is that an issue with brilliance and sparkle?


    What do you think compared to my original two choices?
     
  14. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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  15. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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  16. m92371
    Rough_Rock

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    by m92371 » Aug 26, 2019

    IGI: LG10736908

    https://igi.org/verify.php?r=LG10736908

    How does this compare to the 3.01ct Brilliant Earth and my 3.01ct stone?
     
  17. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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  18. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 26, 2019
    Check the 4 I posted above. You don't need to spend more than you are comfortable with--just don't buy a poorly cut stone.
     
  19. m92371
    Rough_Rock

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    by m92371 » Aug 26, 2019
    Checked, thank you.

    Unfortunately the stone needs to be that 3ct size.

    The Brilliant Earth 3ct, is that really worth the double-price?

    Is the 3.01ct I've been offered not going to appear brilliant or sparkle? Online, the HCA method is heavily debated and really unsure how to proceed.

    EDIT: I found these from Brilliant Earth:

    https://www.brilliantearth.com/3.09...Round-Lab-Created-Diamond-DPLC3.09RDFOPVS2_V/

    https://www.brilliantearth.com/3.22...mond-DLC3.22RDFLOPVS2_1/?process=cyoring&sid=

    Opinions on color/brilliance/sparkle compared to my 3.01ct and the Brilliant Earth 3.01ct?
     
  20. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 27, 2019
    It's not double the price if the stones you were considering were 20k. You won't get a high quality 3ct cut pink stone for 20K, unfortunately. Either you need to get something smaller in size, or adjust the budget. The HCA is a highly reputable tool. In the end, it's totally up to you. 20K is a ton of money, and I'd want to spend it on the best possible stone, even if it meant getting something smaller.
     
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  21. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 27, 2019
    Neither of those are well cut either. You just aren't going to get the size + color you want for 20K. It's all about compromise of budget, cut, color, clarity, size.
     
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  22. m92371
    Rough_Rock

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    by m92371 » Aug 27, 2019
    The 3.09ct from brilliant Earth just scored a 2.4 on the HCA.

    But you say it's not a good stone? According to HCA it is. Now I'm really confused
     
  23. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 27, 2019
    Anything over 2 should be rejected (unless you have advanced images).
     
  24. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » Aug 27, 2019
    Colored diamonds go by color not cut, so I would say choose the best color and the better cut,
     
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  25. m92371
    Rough_Rock

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    by m92371 » Aug 27, 2019
    I've requested a video of the 3.01ct and it appears to sparkle in the video yet HCA says it won't.

    I'm assuming HCA is not the be all end all?
     
  26. m92371
    Rough_Rock

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    by m92371 » Aug 27, 2019
    That is what I've been told by my jeweller over the phone just now.

    So back to square 1. Which of the two stones above? 3.01 seems to have overall best specs apart from clarity. But my jeweller said vs2 and vvs2 are both eye clean, you won't tell.

    From what he said to me:

    The 2.99ct does not appear to look like it is truly vivid pink on the iphone photos ("not vibrant")
    The 3.01ct looks fancy pink, in the sunlight video at least.
    He believes the 3.01ct will be the best performing stone of the two in terms of pink eye color and sparkle.
    Mentioned never to pick based on 10x videos as this is not how they appear in real life.

    For reference, my jeweller is only setting the stone - he isnt selling it to me so he is as neutral third party as I can get.

    EDIT: Im 50/50 on which now more than ever. The 2.99 on paper has better color, but looks flat in the iphone pics I was sent (could this just be bad photos?)
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  27. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 27, 2019
    True, but these are lab stones so I think people can be more picky because there are so many more choices within budget. If it were a FCD I would totally agree. But OP has many pink choices on the BE website, so I think he should try to get both great color and cut.
     
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  28. m92371
    Rough_Rock

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    by m92371 » Aug 27, 2019
    I currently have an issue with Brilliant Earth.

    I originally purchased a stone with them, which was not the right color grade. My jeweler and an independent government ombudsman both reviewed the stone I received and determined it was certainly not as described. Massive issue. I sent it back in the original box with all the customs paperwork and labels that Brilliant Earth provided to me. Now, it is held up in customs LA due to 'missing info regarding package length/width' - FedEx told me Brilliant Earth should have provided me better docs. As a result, I have no stone, no refund, and delays over nearly 3 weeks. I have a trip pre-paid for an engagement I cant back out of, I need a stone. MASSIVE issues with them and they have done nothing to help, only caused delays and are holding my money (over $20k) and refuse to refund me, despite having photos of the stone in the same condition they sent it to me + my details on file + a signed statutory declaration that the stone is in as-received condition. They are away and have been for nearly 3 weeks of my dissatisfaction and the need for immediate refund - but have only delayed me telling me "they are looking into it (the delays at customs)" - zero resolution to date.

    Right now I have to liquidate some stocks to pay for a new stone in time. Once B.E. refund me, Ill buy those stocks back at hopefully a similar price.............I'm frustrated

    So, my two choices are thankfully ok with my partner - listed in my original post - I just want to pick the most sparkling one with the best pink color.
     
  29. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Aug 27, 2019
    I wouldn't buy either stone. Big tables, slightly deep and some crazy pavilion angles (41.6 and 41.3) and pavilion depths (44 and 44.5%).

    Once your pavilion angles cross that 41 degree mark, most notably around 41.2, things go wonky.

    More info here:
    https://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/pavilion-depth-table/

    Additionally you want the crown and pavilion to have an inverse relationship (steep crown/shallow pavilion or vice versa). Some popular combos include 35/40.6, 34.5/40.7, 34/40.9, etc.when you work with super ideal vendors that cut to H&A precision levels you can get by with more angle combos because of the quality of craftsmanship but you will still hit a point where you create leakage or obstruction from certain combos.

    Taking all this into consideration it's easy to see why both stones scored so low on the HCA -- they lack good proportions for ideal light return.

    This said I know people buy colored stones more for their color than maximum light return. Speaking of color I have to think the fluorescence could have an impact. I'm not familiar with medium orange or very strong pink fluor. My understanding is the vast majority of fluor is blue and "activates" when the exposed to black UV lighting so it gets excited and fluorences. Under normal lighting blue fluor is rarely detectable.

    Additionally blue fluor rarely creates hazy/milky issues except in rare cases and usually when you have very strong levels of it.

    Assuming pink and orange fluor behaves similar, I'd think you need to check each stone to ensure there is no cloudy or milky look as a result and I would expect some color change under the right UV lighting.
     
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  30. distracts
    Ideal_Rock

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    by distracts » Aug 27, 2019
    Given that they are colored diamonds, you can't really analyze the cut in the same way. They are NOT cut for light return because light return lightens or erases the color. The cuts are to intensify the color - just about the exact opposite of what this forum usually wants in terms of diamonds. It is going to be next to impossible to find a tolkowsky ideal cut in a colored diamond unless he can contact the vendor and have it custom cut, or buys one and has it recut - and then no guarantees in terms of what it will do to the color. Since he wants a PINK diamond, I would not pay any attention at all to the HCA. Since they are decently cut RBs, they will sparkle just fine.

    I would get the one with the Fancy Vivid grading. I've seen some Fancy Vivids that look that light, but still got the grade, and it looks no lighter than a Fancy Intense to me. It does look to me to have a brown or orange modifier, but the Fancy Light also does, so that may just be how they come. I do not like the Brilliant Earth ones.
     
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