Upset about new diamond from BN

[myst]

Ok. Don''t know if I am 100% in the right, but here it goes.

My BF bought my engagement ring. With coaching from me he searched for only Ideal cut diamonds because I want quality over size.

He purchased a .72 Ideal Cut G VS2 according to BN.

When we received the ring, the grading report indicated that it is an AGSL- Excellent 1.

Ideal is a O.

I went back to the BN website and my diamond is clearly listed by BN as IDEAL cut but the clickable AGSL report as Excellent.

I feel gypped! Now unhappy with my ring.

I already wore for one day before looking at the report, but am within the 30-day window.

Should I return the diamond. Can I????

I don''t want to be depressed by my engagement ring!

 

[quaeritur]

I'd suggest giving BN a call right away and discussing it with them. They have a good return policy (30 days), and even if you're outside that window, I think you could argue they misrepresented this stone and should at least allow you to exchange it.

However, and I don't know that this is the case, they may refer to their Signature stones as "ideal," but again, you should check with them first.

By the way, AGS excellent can still be very very nice! Can you post the specs (table, depth, crown&pavilion angles) on your stone? You might have one of those that are amazing despite falling slightly outside AGS0 range...

 

[slw925]

If you're unhappy, find out whatever you need to know about their return policy, and then talk to your BF about it. Return it and do it soon. Tell him that you feel bad that he got ripped off, but tell him that you'd like to get something different. This happened to me, and we ended up getting something better. Back then we really didn't take the time we should have to really research and understand the best way to approach the whole engagement ring buying thing.
Knowing what I know now, if I had to go back when we got engaged and do it over again, I would have gone to an independent jeweler, because you will get the most bling for your buck however you want the quality, color and ct weight and cut to be. Their prices are way better than stores because they don't have to pay for the big store and all the sales people. It's generally just a guy that works by himself or with someone else. Independents are selling you stones they bought from diamond cutters. And they are very serious about by nice cut diamonds that are certified stones. A lot of the times when they meet with the cutters, the cutters will try and throw in another stone or two at a really good deal, kind of like a package deal, then the independent, if he's honest can pass on the good deal to you. Ask the people around you if they know any jewelers, then take it from there. If you find one and then find a good stone, take it to get appraised, and then you're set.

 

[elmo]

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On 9/12/2004 1:47:31 PM myst wrote:

I feel gypped! Now unhappy with my ring.
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You're lucky you purchased from someone with one of the best return policies in the business.

Once you get a little familiar with how BN organizes things by cut it is clear (at least to me) that they aren't being deceptive - 'ideal' refers to proportions only, not polish and symmetry. That's where this one is getting dinged isn't it? When you do a search on their site for ideal only, you still get lots of GIA gd/gd vg/vg etc. stones.

Another very important lesson learned is next time take a good look at the lab report before purchasing something.

 

[valeria101]

It is not clear how far from "ideal" that particular diamond is... and if the price was good or not is yet another matter.

What are the specs on the AGSL report?

If the stone gets cuddos from the HCA and is not that far in size and proportions from AGS's to rank, than if AGS or BN called it "Ideal" is simply philosophical, IMO.

But you must feal good about the ring too. That's all diamonds are abut, right

 

[valeria101]

These are harts and arrows AGS0 bits that will likely comply with all Pricescope consideres "Ideal". It is a VERY narrow definition that will discount even some of AGS0 diamodnds as not "ideal enough".

There are others you may want to look up on the search engine here (LINK). What could possibly make one of these more tempting than the one on your hand ?

Since there is no industry-wide standard for what "ideal cut" means, BN can rightfully disagree with AGS. It really is up to you to choose one definition of Ideal over another and go for the best deal, IMO.

 

[myst]

This is copied directly from BN:
Carat weight: 0.72
Cut: Ideal
Color: G
Clarity: VS2
Depth %: 60.9%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Ideal
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.79x5.84x3.54 mm
************
AGS report matches as far as depth, table, and measurements.

Although I am enough of a novice not to know how far apart a AGS "Excellent" and AGS "Ideal" would be, it is clear that the vast majority of BN "Ideals" with AGS report show both on BN and on AGS the term "Ideal".

The BN site even has a little blurb to the left of the diamond:
Cut: Ideal
This diamond reflects nearly all light as sparkle and fire. Its proportions fall within BN table and depth standards for ideal cut grade.

Perhaps this means that I just "happened" to get the one "ideal" that fell within BN standards for Ideal and outside of AGS's??

Anyone else have an "excellent" diamond. By the way price was about $2950 and I can see that several Ideal diamonds are within =/- $400 for the same carat weight.

 

[myst]

>>

Yeah another point to follow. I wanted my BF to feel he was contibuting something so gave him my parameters and thought I would let him pick the specific diamond so he would feel better about it!

Size of the diamond was perfect for my ring...

Another question. I am not used to wearing jewelery much, so wanted an active girl setting. I chose Semi-Bezel. Does this settin diminish sparkle making my concern over "quality" too extreme?

 

[ChooChoo]

Can you post the crown and pavillion angles?
So far, I think you have nothing to worry about. Maybe it wasn't called an AGS Ideal Cut just because the polish is excellent, not ideal?

 

[Mara]

AGS may have changed their specs, but last I heard they did not have an 'Excellent'.




GIA has Excellent and AGS has Ideal, EX is GIA's highest rating, and Ideal is AGS's.




The AGS grading structure was 'Good', 'Very Good' and 'Ideal' I believe.




AGS0 would mean that Symm and Polish would be ID; as well as Proportions being ID. Those three ID's mean AGS0.




If the AGSL report is showing EX and ID together, then either AGS changed their grading structure or something is odd? Can you post a copy of the AGS report?




I ran a quick search on BN and not one of their AGSL certs had EX/ID, they all had ID/ID.




Lastly, you may already know this but the diamond being AGS0 does not guarantee it's going to be an excellent performer. Sometimes AGS1s may perform better than AGS0. Your eye and it's preference also has alot to do with it. Tricky.

 

[denverappraiser]

myst,

AGS won't call it ideal unless the proportions, polish and symmetry are all ideal. As has been pointed out on other threads, people often use the word 'ideal' to describe AGS0 proportions so it will meet some definitions of idealness and not others.

AGS reports are expensive and most dealers won't send a stone to them unless they are expecting to get that cherished AGS Ideal designation. It's the reason you don't see a lot of AGS-7 stones accompanied by AGS paper

It's also quite possible that what an AGS grader called 'excellent', someone else is calling 'ideal'. They didn't want to trash the report because 'excellent' is not exactly a bad designation. They actually don't say who is is declaring the idealhood of the stone or what they mean by that term.

It sounds to me like you got a lovely stone for a fair price and your headline about being gypped BN is being awfuly harsh, especially since they will cheerfully take a return if you don't love it.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Mara]

Murph, I cannot recall having seen an AGS Excellent rating, only VG and then ID....in my 2 years here, how odd is that? But you are right, I found the EX on the AGS site.



Myst, You can view the different AGS reports, sample reports, and explanations of grades and the scales here:


http://www.agslab.com/




Click on the copy of the certs right underneath Diamond Grading to see and read about the different certs.

 

[ame]

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On 9/12/2004 1:47:31 PM myst wrote:




I feel gypped! Now unhappy with my ring.

I already wore for one day before looking at the report, but am within the 30-day window.


Should I return the diamond. Can I????


I don't want to be depressed by my engagement ring!

----------------

If you aren't happy now, return it for a new one but be sure your fiancee is ok with that. I know Id be pissed as hell if my SO took back what I bought them without me at least KNOWING about it.

 

[myst]

Thanks for the input everyone. And please note that this is the emotional me..... I think BN was a little misleading, but I probably would have looked at the AGS report if I purchased myself.

My report is laminated and folds in half and is a DQD.

Crown angle is 34.9 and pavillion is 40.7

Symmetry and proportions are noted as ideal.
Polish is excellent.

I will probably keep the ring, and am unlikely to upgrade any time soon. The 3/4 carat fits perfectly on my 4mm platinum band. [/i]

 

[myst]

id, they all had id/id.>>>

BN did list my diamond as ID/ID, AGS did not.

 

[nicknomo]

AGS 0 refers to Ideal symmetry, polish and proportions. If symmetry is not ideal, or polish is not ideal you will be looking at a grade of AGS 1. This is ok. You want the proportions to be a 0, since that is what is important.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD00237177&query=2&filter_id=0

That is an AGS 1, but it is only so because of an "Excellent" (not ideal) polish.

Polish and symmetry being excellent as opposed to ideal means little or nothing.

It is more ocnfusing and a play on words than anything else. AGS only considers a cut IDEAL if it is IDEAL in all 3 of those categories. Some people only refer to the proportions of the diamond when they say IDEAL.

If you buy a GIA diamond, and it had a Polish or Symmetry of "Very Good", you might not be getting an AGS ideal diamond either.

Of course proportions may be graded as excellent, in which case it's probably not ideal by any standard.. If this is the case, you may consider returning it. If not, I really wouldn't worry about it.

I hope this puts things in perspective.

 

[dimonbob]

Many cutters and vendors call a diamond Ideal or AGS 0 and even AGS 000 if it has a Sarin report that says AGS 0. The Sarin AGS 0 is only one part of three that make a diamond Ideal.

AGS set the standards and the industry is twisting the meaning to suit their needs.

It is the same with the Hearts and Arrows. Many cutters and vendors are calling their diamonds H&A when they are not even close.

There is no governing body that can tell the diamond dealers what they can or cannot say. I think in the advertising business this is called puffing (making your product look better than it actually is).

 

[quaeritur]

myst-

I suspect you have a gorgeous diamond. I also agree that BN made a mistake in listing this stone as ideal, when it is in fact excellent. HOWEVER, since the polish is the one factor less than ideal, and it's excellent at that (that's still great!), it really seems to be the best scenario. I've considered stones with "only" excellent polish making then AGS1s, and in all honesty, I can't really tell the difference. It's much more important that the angles and symmetry are there. The great news is that your stone, with those crown and pavilion angles, scores a fantastic 1.2 on the HCA, rating excellents for white light return, color light return and scintillation.

In other words, I'm willing to bet you have a fantastic stone. No worries, your BF did better than if he had purchased an AGS 0 stone with a less ideal combo of angles!

So, if your eyes tell you it's pretty, don't be afraid to believe them.

 

[elmo]

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On 9/13/2004 6:31:04 PM dimonbob wrote:

There is no governing body that can tell the diamond dealers what they can or cannot say. I think in the advertising business this is called puffing (making your product look better than it actually is).
----------------

The most puffery here is the AGS calling their second-quality polish 'excellent' in response to the GIA calling their top grade excellent

.

 

[Blueman33]

I have scoped out many diamonds, but am no expert.

I looked at diamonds with GIA VG VG (polish, symetry) and EX EX. I couldn't see the difference.

I asked the dealer at a huge wholesale house that had 1700 diamonds in stock (JBI, not an internet dealer) if he could see the difference since I couldn't. No. he said. I can see color after 26 years of diamonds and can differentiate size, but polish and symmetry require a microscope.

My bet is the stone is excellent, and that a comparable size stone side by side with a better rating would be not be discernable.

Also, top end table and depth by most standards.

THEN AGAIN I saw a 60/60 diamond (way out of 'ideal' range) that totally rocked. go figure.

Good luck. Do what makes you happy. Live with it IF you can be happy......if it's going to nag at you.....send it back, or have it re-examined.

Cheers
David

 

[kevinng]

If I were in your shoes, I'd return the diamond. I find BlueNile prices a little on the high side. So, I would expect at least an AGS Triple Ideal if I were paying that kind of price.

It's not about what you can see or cannot see. We probably cannot discern the difference between an IF diamond from say a VVS2 without a microscope, but these characteristics determine the price. So, if BlueNile says 'Ideal', I would expect nothing short of an AGS Triple Ideal (I assume it's their signature series). Actually, at their prices, I would expect H&A as well.