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Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase?

TheRedHead

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
5
Hello,

I want an Old Mine or European Cut stone for my engagement ring.

I recently ran across a loose diamond that is approx 2.5 carats. The seller has other loose stones that come with GIA certs, but this one does not.

Here is what the seller graded it:
Color: J
Clarity: I1
Shape: Old Mine Cut
Carat Weight: 2.56ct (8.33-8.98mm)

The price is approx $6,000, which is insane for a stone this size.

There was one picture on the listing and they will be sending me video later. I asked about a lab certification, but the seller replied that they could send it to a lab, but it would likely come back within one grade and that the inclusions hide well in a setting. Should I insist on a lab certification? Or should I take a risk?

Thank you for your help!

Here is the one picture included: oldmine.png
 

LadyMCh

Shiny_Rock
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Jun 30, 2016
Messages
318
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

I'd wait. That stone is pretty wonky, and I can see 3 inclusions just in that pic. Not having something more symmetrical and eye-clean would bother me in an engagement ring...
 

Bonfire

Ideal_Rock
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3,180
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

That is a very included stone :-o Keep looking. Try Grace at JBG or Erica at Love Affair Diamonds or Adam at Old World Diamonds.
 

imdoubler

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
256
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

I have been watched this diamond too!
I'm no expert but if I were you, I will insist on the cert to be sure what you are getting.
 

maccers

Brilliant_Rock
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1,166
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

Looks like Wolverine had an encounter with that stone. However, that's hugely magnified and it's possible that the inclusions won't bother you in person. If it were me, my biggest questions would: How does the stone perform? With those inclusions, is the stone safe to wear every day, does it require a particular style of setting (e.g. bezel) to keep it from being damaged?

If it's a bad performer, I wouldn't bother getting it graded.
 

Bonfire

Ideal_Rock
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Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

I had to come back to respond to your original question. No, this is neither a wise or good purchase.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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28,175
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

Yeah, I'd keep shopping ........................ BTW, have we found Lopsie Fugs II?
 

dollyanjuli

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
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Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

Ah yes, i saw that stone online also. If that is from Ilya at mydiamondzone, and you don't mind dropping the money to see it in person AND you just want a huge rock for a low (by comparison) price, then you can always order and if you don't like what you see return.

My two cents- You need to go into this knowing that with diamonds, like everything in life, you get what you pay for. This stone is clearly wonky and not particularly well cut and has some huge inclusions. But it is a MASSIVE stone for that price. If you go into this knowing that and you are ok with it then that's your decision. Most PS'ers would suggest going down in size and getting the best stone you can for your budget- I have a different outlook, which is that you can buy whatever you like as long as you are informed. No one wants to get ripped off, and that's why they come here. You won't be able to find a stone this big for 6k. So, maybe in person you will find it's wonkiness charming and you love the size and don't care about the other stuff. Maybe you will say " ugh! this is not what I expected!" Be prepared, know what you are getting (a stone that could literally be anything on the color/ clarity scale) and then make a decision.

Quick thing: Erica at Love Affair diamonds has a slightly off round stone (not as wonky as the one you posted!) that is certed, and is a great price for the size. It's not a top top OEC like others you may find but it is very pretty and she usually has a great eye for stones. It's more than this one (just under 8K), but it is certed and almost 2 carats

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-91ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-k-si2/

Good luck! :wavey:
 

TheRedHead

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Sep 19, 2016
Messages
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Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

Thank you so much, everyone! I think I was so distracted by that size at that price, that I didn't look too closely at the stone itself!

I truly appreciate the suggestions and links, and will keep looking for a better stone for my engagement!
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

+1 dollyanjuli - great post!!

TheRedHead - here's my take: Any professional seller offering a 2ct for $6k knows what they are offering- $6k for a 2ct means there's compromises- and they will be possible ( or even easy) to notice with the naked eye.
But that does not mean for sure you won't love the stone, in spite of the compromises.
Take the shape- it's a detraction to many. But some people love wonky shapes.
Same for imperfection. True, most people would mind if their diamond has a visible spot- but there's also plenty of people who would gladly accept the spot to get a 2ct stone for $6k.

Good luck whatever path you take!
 

oldminer

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Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

Of course, you can get a report on any diamond, but sometimes the report is not going to bring good news about the stone's quality compared to modern cut, D color and IF ideal cuts. Then again, if you don't want a cookie cutter diamond, if you have a budget which is not large enough for the mainstream selection of a diamond and you happen to like the odd item or the individualistic one, then this diamond might just happen to suit you. Let's just say the color grade is off by two grades and the clarity is I1 or even I2. The asking price will still be within reason for a large looking diamond which will make someone very happy. Will it be you? We can't begin to guess, but taking the advice to get a report, or that the stone will bother you in some way does not understand that we all are different and we all have our own innate driving forces. What pleases you may not please most everyone else. That does not mean you are wrong, or they are right. People are buying uncut diamonds and finding them charming. Just because I don't agree does not make me feel compelled to criticize their choice. I find it interesting, amazing and appealing that they have the courage to buck the herd in such a head on way, but I might still think their choice diamond is not for me. My choice for bucking the herd may take on a different design or form of protest. We all have that right to choose.

You ought to pay the shipping to examine the diamond closely and intimately. Decide how you can use it effectively. Do you want to surround it with other diamonds, or a bezel? Do you want it to stand alone? How does it look in your everyday lighting. Do you like it or not? The price is not going to get a lot cheaper, so it has to be some other thing that either says its right or not for you. Whatever grade it actually may be really has little importance since it is a long way from the norm of diamonds which must have grading reports in order to compete. This stone is not competing with its grades, but competing with its unique looks. You are the best judge.
 

Bonfire

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 22, 2014
Messages
3,180
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

Take your time and look at lots of stones. Discover what facet pattern attracts your eye.
Do you like a flowery pattern or more of a checker board? Old cuts are all unique and that is part of
their charm. Don't rush. Good luck and please come back with questions. Sorry if I came on a bit strong.
You will know the right stone when you see it! :love:
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 31, 2014
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10,463
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

I like Ilya and he often has diamonds that I LOVE, but this one just doesn't "speak" to me. But that doesn't mean it doesn't speak to you! For me I love the faceting pattern of OECs, but when a stone is this "wonky" then I think that gets in the way of it being appealing. I would definitely look at other options from Ilya, old world diamonds, and jewels by grace and wait for one that really makes your heart SING! :wavey:
 

dollyanjuli

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
592
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

It seems that the inclusions really are affecting the brilliance- you can sort of see there are huge "blurry" areas in the video.

Did you want to post your budget and let some of the prosumers chime in? Did you check out some of the websites that were reccomended?

Edit to add: check out this video from good old gold if you have some time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5vtN957ROM
 

soxfan

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Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

I don't know......I'm going against the grain here. Is shipping all you have to pay to examine the stone in real life? If you really want a large stone and your price range is indeed $6000, I'd pay the shipping to examine it. Ilya's pics and videos leave a lot to be desired. I have one of his wonky stones (my pear) and I couldn't believe the difference in how it looks it real life. It's my favorite diamond. His prices are amazing, too.

IF that stone is eye clean, just a little wonky, and you like it- it could be set in a bezel. At 9mm, I'd order it in just to have a look at it.......
 

dollyanjuli

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
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Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

soxfan|1474324029|4078560 said:
I don't know......I'm going against the grain here. Is shipping all you have to pay to examine the stone in real life? If you really want a large stone and your price range is indeed $6000, I'd pay the shipping to examine it. Ilya's pics and videos leave a lot to be desired. I have one of his wonky stones (my pear) and I couldn't believe the difference in how it looks it real life. It's my favorite diamond. His prices are amazing, too.

IF that stone is eye clean, just a little wonky, and you like it- it could be set in a bezel. At 9mm, I'd order it in just to have a look at it.......
Soxfan I have seen some other of Ilya's pieces (including your BEAUTIFUL pear) and though some look much better in person, even from this not so great video it seems you can tell that the inclusions at 3 o clock and 9 o clock are really heavy. That said, OP would have to actually purchase the diamond to see it in person, shipping back is all you would lose. For 6K, hey, it may be worth a shot. I am always going against popular PS opinion it seems, but even for me these inclusions seem really glaring for an engagement ring.
 

soxfan

Ideal_Rock
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Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

dollyanjuli|1474328589|4078596 said:
soxfan|1474324029|4078560 said:
I don't know......I'm going against the grain here. Is shipping all you have to pay to examine the stone in real life? If you really want a large stone and your price range is indeed $6000, I'd pay the shipping to examine it. Ilya's pics and videos leave a lot to be desired. I have one of his wonky stones (my pear) and I couldn't believe the difference in how it looks it real life. It's my favorite diamond. His prices are amazing, too.

IF that stone is eye clean, just a little wonky, and you like it- it could be set in a bezel. At 9mm, I'd order it in just to have a look at it.......
Soxfan I have seen some other of Ilya's pieces (including your BEAUTIFUL pear) and though some look much better in person, even from this not so great video it seems you can tell that the inclusions at 3 o clock and 9 o clock are really heavy. That said, OP would have to actually purchase the diamond to see it in person, shipping back is all you would lose. For 6K, hey, it may be worth a shot. I am always going against popular PS opinion it seems, but even for me these inclusions seem really glaring for an engagement ring.

Oh, ok, I couldn't see much from the video. If you can see them in the video, then that's a different situation.
 

soxfan

Ideal_Rock
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Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

ok, I made the video full screen. That's a big inclusion going all the way across the stone.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
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Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,117
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

My 5 cents worth. It's a huge diamond for a mere $6,000.
If size is what matters most, then this is your diamond, but it has a number of major flaws.
It's a wonky shape and the culet is off centre which could, over time, become very irritating.
It has significant flaws, these will be eye visible, and again over time, these could become more and more irritating.
It's old cut, off centre shape and flaws are going to make it less of a sparkly performer.
Different think matter to different people, for some colour is king, they want a white diamond. Others clarity matter, flecks and flaws easily visible are very undesirable. And once you've witnessed a well cut diamond, with its full and beautiful sparkles from any and every angle,it's hard to look elsewhere.
But, it's a huge diamond for $6,000.
My preference is for big and if I had to chose between this one and a .80 carat, G , VVS, excellent cut diamond, I'd be going for the BIG one.
 

TheRedHead

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
5
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

dollyanjuli|1474322825|4078548 said:
It seems that the inclusions really are affecting the brilliance- you can sort of see there are huge "blurry" areas in the video.

Did you want to post your budget and let some of the prosumers chime in? Did you check out some of the websites that were reccomended?

Edit to add: check out this video from good old gold if you have some time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5vtN957ROM

I have been checking the other websites recommended and am finding lots of beautiful stones!

Our max budget for the stone is $10,000, but we'd like to keep it to 8 if we can. I'd like at least 1 carat, but I'm also open to slightly smaller than 1 (and bigger!) I fell in love with European and Mine cuts after visiting several antique jewelry dealers. (This ring is really what sold me, but http://isadoras.com/old-european-cut-diamond-ring.html I didn't care for the ring itself.) I don't mind warmth, as I plan on having a yellow gold band.
 

soxfan

Ideal_Rock
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4,795
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

TheRedHead|1474385574|4078812 said:
dollyanjuli|1474322825|4078548 said:
It seems that the inclusions really are affecting the brilliance- you can sort of see there are huge "blurry" areas in the video.

Did you want to post your budget and let some of the prosumers chime in? Did you check out some of the websites that were reccomended?

Edit to add: check out this video from good old gold if you have some time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5vtN957ROM

I have been checking the other websites recommended and am finding lots of beautiful stones!

Our max budget for the stone is $10,000, but we'd like to keep it to 8 if we can. I'd like at least 1 carat, but I'm also open to slightly smaller than 1 (and bigger!) I fell in love with European and Mine cuts after visiting several antique jewelry dealers. (This ring is really what sold me, but http://isadoras.com/old-european-cut-diamond-ring.html I didn't care for the ring itself.) I don't mind warmth, as I plan on having a yellow gold band.
OK, you need to visit loveaffairdiamonds.com

IMO, Erica has the best prices on OEC's. And she has some stunners on there right now!!!!
 

soxfan

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
4,795
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-15ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-o-vs2/

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-91ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-k-si2/

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-79ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-n-vs1/

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-78ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-l-vs2/

Erica hand selects these stones, and is an expert in old cuts. I trust her opinion. In fact, I've never seen the stones I've bought from her- I just send them for setting. She will do comparison videos for you too.
 

TheRedHead

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
5
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

soxfan|1474386038|4078817 said:
http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-15ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-o-vs2/

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-91ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-k-si2/

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-79ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-n-vs1/

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-78ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-l-vs2/

Erica hand selects these stones, and is an expert in old cuts. I trust her opinion. In fact, I've never seen the stones I've bought from her- I just send them for setting. She will do comparison videos for you too.
Thank you!
 

Queenie60

Ideal_Rock
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Sep 15, 2014
Messages
4,277
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

soxfan|1474386038|4078817 said:
http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-15ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-o-vs2/

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-91ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-k-si2/

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-79ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-n-vs1/

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-78ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-l-vs2/

Erica hand selects these stones, and is an expert in old cuts. I trust her opinion. In fact, I've never seen the stones I've bought from her- I just send them for setting. She will do comparison videos for you too.
I agree with Soxfan - I have recently purchased a very warm stone from Erica however I was able to visit with her and see different OEC's prior to purchasing. She's very knowledgeable, easy to work with and will educate you along the way. I will definitely purchase from her again in the future. And as Soxfan said, she hand picks each stone. I was able to see those listed in person. The 1.79 N is beautiful. I had considered purchasing this. However, there was another stone that "spoke to me." If it's a consignment stone, she will note that on the description page. Good luck. :wavey:
 

Queenie60

Ideal_Rock
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Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

Take a look at these:

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-13ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-q-r-vs2#.V-FrkJMrIcg

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-20ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-n-si2#.V-FsMJMrIcg

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-60ct-transitional-cut-diamond-egl-q-r-si1#.V-FsnpMrIcg

Within your budget. Also look at Oldworlddiamonds.com. Adam can find a nice stone for you. Good luck, be patient as there are many options out there. However, purchase a stone that is certified and that you will enjoy looking at each and every day. :wavey:
 

soxfan

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
4,795
Re: Ungraded Old Mine Cut -- is this a wise or good purchase

Queenie60|1474391567|4078881 said:
Take a look at these:

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-13ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-q-r-vs2#.V-FrkJMrIcg

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-20ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-n-si2#.V-FsMJMrIcg

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-60ct-transitional-cut-diamond-egl-q-r-si1#.V-FsnpMrIcg

Within your budget. Also look at Oldworlddiamonds.com. Adam can find a nice stone for you. Good luck, be patient as there are many options out there. However, purchase a stone that is certified and that you will enjoy looking at each and every day. :wavey:
Oh that Q/R!!!! :love:
 
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