shape
carat
color
clarity

Two diamonds enter, only one leaves... (Ring of life/death pt 2)

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
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Mar 23, 2021
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Ok hopefully on the last leg of my diamond choosing saga... I greatly appreciate all the help and insights so far from the board members here!!! :cool2:

The scope image for the competing 'I' diamond I was waiting for finally came back, and so it's come to this - the VVS2 H diamond I've been drawn to so far (eye clean, mind clean, large spread w/not terrible light return...) vs the I diamond, which has great light return but has a knot towards the upper left girdle, and a feather towards the lower right girdle.

Any thoughts/opinions are welcome, even if you've weighed in before :)

Most fundamentally, I'm wondering which of these two diamonds individuals here would pick for themselves? Yes yes I know the real answer is some third diamond which isn't listed here lol, but between these two, which would you prefer for yourself five years out if you had to choose between them? Not that I still won't consider 3rd diamond suggestions either mind you...



Diamond Compare.jpg
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I really dont like knots, but wouldn't be able to choose the Left option bc the aesthetic isnt appealing to me.
 

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
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I really dont like knots, but wouldn't be able to choose the Left option bc the aesthetic isnt appealing to me.

The left or the right? So does that mean you're more in favor of the H between the two? I was sorta expecting you to come in strong in favor of the I!
 
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sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Why are you insistent on it being an A or B choice? You are forcing yourself to choose a negative with either option. That doesn't seem productive. Perhaps cutting both them loose and focusing on C, D, E, etc. is the smartest move?

I don't see crazy color or clarity requirements based on the two choices you presented. Which tells me maybe the problem is you are trying to crest the 2+ carat size range with a very tight budget; therefore, maybe you don't have many choices. Or perhaps there is a sentimental attachment with one or both these stones?

Understanding your situation may help us guide you better.

That said, I like the smaller table on the I stone. Also, it doesn't have leakage. Symmetry is off as well. And unless the stone is truly rare I am not taking a knot as an inclusion either. No offense but an I-SI1 doesn't hit my radar of "rare".

The H has a larger table and leakage as you pointed out. The cost difference is likely associated by the bump in both color & clarity.

Have you saw both stones with your own eyes? What are your thoughts? I believe you will see two different personalities with each stone. While either is acceptable, you may have a preference for a certain style.

By chance do you have a copy of the certs for each stone that you can post?
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Why are you insistent on it being an A or B choice? You are forcing yourself to choose a negative with either option. That doesn't seem productive. Perhaps cutting both them loose and focusing on C, D, E, etc. is the smartest move?

I don't see crazy color or clarity requirements based on the two choices you presented. Which tells me maybe the problem is you are trying to crest the 2+ carat size range with a very tight budget; therefore, maybe you don't have many choices. Or perhaps there is a sentimental attachment with one or both these stones?

Understanding your situation may help us guide you better.

That said, I like the smaller table on the I stone. Also, it doesn't have leakage. Symmetry is off as well. And unless the stone is truly rare I am not taking a knot as an inclusion either. No offense but an I-SI1 doesn't hit my radar of "rare".

The H has a larger table and leakage as you pointed out. The cost difference is likely associated by the bump in both color & clarity.

Have you saw both stones with your own eyes? What are your thoughts? I believe you will see two different personalities with each stone. While either is acceptable, you may have a preference for a certain style.

By chance do you have a copy of the certs for each stone that you can post?
Exactly this (bold). This is why I can't choose, because I think neither is good.
 

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
126
Why are you insistent on it being an A or B choice? You are forcing yourself to choose a negative with either option. That doesn't seem productive. Perhaps cutting both them loose and focusing on C, D, E, etc. is the smartest move?

I don't see crazy color or clarity requirements based on the two choices you presented. Which tells me maybe the problem is you are trying to crest the 2+ carat size range with a very tight budget; therefore, maybe you don't have many choices. Or perhaps there is a sentimental attachment with one or both these stones?

Understanding your situation may help us guide you better.

That said, I like the smaller table on the I stone. Also, it doesn't have leakage. Symmetry is off as well. And unless the stone is truly rare I am not taking a knot as an inclusion either. No offense but an I-SI1 doesn't hit my radar of "rare".

The H has a larger table and leakage as you pointed out. The cost difference is likely associated by the bump in both color & clarity.

Have you saw both stones with your own eyes? What are your thoughts? I believe you will see two different personalities with each stone. While either is acceptable, you may have a preference for a certain style.

By chance do you have a copy of the certs for each stone that you can post?

Hi Sledge,

I appreciate your coming into this thread - seen some of your posts and certainly hold your opinion in high regard.

Here's the one on the Left, here's the one on the Right

Pricing for the one on the left is ~$13,900, and the one on the right is ~$17,900

Left Cert - Right Cert

The text on the images are sort of my own summations as to the main points of contention at the moment

I think there's a lot of emphasis in these topics - an overemphasis maybe - to try to clarify for me what I should be looking for. I can appreciate that; worry not, I know what I should be looking for and could write a treatise on the subject at this point lol

But so these are your criteria to work with:

I stone or higher, ~2ct, eye clean, under $18K

Yes there are two stones on White Flash that could technically fit the bill, and I may still go that route, but the compromises in my mind are *too dramatic* in order to achieve an increase in cut and optical performance. I could get a 1.92 I SI1 on WF for ~$18K, but vs this I SI1, I gain some better light performance, I nudge down appreciably under 2ct (a target/requirement for the recipient), and I trade these inclusions for other non-ideal inclusions. And I pay $4K more. The upgrade policy is better for sure, but if I game it out then to get to an H stone equivalent of the one I have here - for the sole purpose of achieving that top level cut... and this isn't coming from horrific cut mind you, can we agree... then it'll be an eventual further $6K in upgrade investments to reach parity (and not even) to the VVS2.

That's my thinking. Within that context, I'm happy to hear and listen to any feedback and advice. I'm not asking people what they would do, I'm asking people which they would pick... it's different! ;-) BUT, I'm happy to hear what they would do as well.

Anyway for my part I feel I've more or less exhausted the viable options/alternatives on the Internet within those criteria I laid out, and so far as WF and BGD, I have their near 2ct inventory memorized by heart at this point. However I'm open to hearing different angles, the same angles, advice, insights, warnings, or anything else. Ultimately it'll be my choice, but I wouldn't be here if I weren't welcoming/receptive to pushback!
 

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
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Mar 23, 2021
Messages
126
Exactly this (bold). This is why I can't choose, because I think neither is good.

Yes well fair enough - but that being said, between those two I just wanted to make sure I understood your choice/preference as between the I or the H! :)
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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Yes well fair enough - but that being said, between those two I just wanted to make sure I understood your choice/preference as between the I or the H! :)

Definitely the I between the two due to cut, but I would worry about the knot.
 

ringo865

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 14, 2014
Messages
2,657
Definitely the I between the two due to cut, but I would worry about the knot.

Same. Keep looking. Look for a 1.95 and up. With the upgrade policy at WF, your gf (soon fiancée) can upgrade any time for color, clarity or size. Trust me, if you get her a 2.01 now with a knot or a crap cut, she’ll want to upgrade sooner than with an ACA “just under” the magic carat weight. you’d likely save some coin as well, as the price per carat is less under these magic weights.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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Okay, so here is an option C and I like this quite a bit. No sacrifices & you get a size boost!

2.27ct I-VS1 @ $17,985

AGS000, 56.3t, 62.0d, 34.4c/40.8p & 77 LGF's

Available from WF, but not an ACA, ES or PS. This is a virtual stone. Lots of bang for the buck. Gets you to 8.30mm. Within your color range. Clarity is phenomenal. And you get to deal with a top tier vendor. Oh yeah, the cut will be killer too! Not perfect, but considerably better than the other two.

Please call them and RESERVE IMMEDIATELY while you decide!

FYI....

JA 2.01 I-SI1 @ $13,900 = $6,915 per carat
JA 2.01 H-VVS2 @ $17,900 (and STRONG blue) = $8.905 per carat
WF 2.27 I-VS1 @ $17,985 = $7,922 per carat

This is a sweet, sweet deal. I hope you jump on it!

Capture1.PNG
 
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Txborn79

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
297
Okay, so here is an option C and I like this quite a bit. No sacrifices & you get a size boost!

2.27ct I-VS1 @ $17,985

AGS000, 56.3t, 62.0d, 34.4c/40.8p & 77 LGF's

Available from WF, but not an ACA, ES or PS. This is a virtual stone. Lots of bang for the buck. Gets you to 8.30mm. Within your color range. Clarity is phenomenal. And you get to deal with a top tier vendor. Oh yeah, the cut will be killer too! Not perfect, but considerably better than the other two.

Please call them and RESERVE IMMEDIATELY while you decide!

FYI....

JA 2.01 I-SI1 @ $13,900 = $6,915 per carat
JA 2.01 H-VVS2 @ $17,900 (and STRONG blue) = $8.905 per carat
WF 2.27 I-VS1 @ $17,985 = $7,922 per carat

This is a sweet, sweet deal. I hope you jump on it!

Capture1.PNG

This one is available cheaper from USA certed and James Allen. The arrows look off in the JA video, may be the tilt.


 

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
126
Same. Keep looking. Look for a 1.95 and up. With the upgrade policy at WF, your gf (soon fiancée) can upgrade any time for color, clarity or size. Trust me, if you get her a 2.01 now with a knot or a crap cut, she’ll want to upgrade sooner than with an ACA “just under” the magic carat weight. you’d likely save some coin as well, as the price per carat is less under these magic weights.

There are no 1.95's out there... believe me, it's been what I've been looking for from day one lol

But speaking of knots specifically, how scared should I/we be? And, would the prong be able to cover it up/secure it?
 

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
126
Okay, so here is an option C and I like this quite a bit. No sacrifices & you get a size boost!

2.27ct I-VS1 @ $17,985

AGS000, 56.3t, 62.0d, 34.4c/40.8p & 77 LGF's

Available from WF, but not an ACA, ES or PS. This is a virtual stone. Lots of bang for the buck. Gets you to 8.30mm. Within your color range. Clarity is phenomenal. And you get to deal with a top tier vendor. Oh yeah, the cut will be killer too! Not perfect, but considerably better than the other two.

Please call them and RESERVE IMMEDIATELY while you decide!

FYI....

JA 2.01 I-SI1 @ $13,900 = $6,915 per carat
JA 2.01 H-VVS2 @ $17,900 (and STRONG blue) = $8.905 per carat
WF 2.27 I-VS1 @ $17,985 = $7,922 per carat

This is a sweet, sweet deal. I hope you jump on it!

Capture1.PNG

Ok to be fair this is a hypothetical contender - it does have some things going for it that otherwise meet the criteria.

What would you think this area on the diamond is about though?

This ASET image is an actual vs theoretical ray tracing result, correct?

light loss.jpg
 

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
126
This one is available cheaper from USA certed and James Allen. The arrows look off in the JA video, may be the tilt.



Speaking of that video, and this can be a quick lesson for me, but does that one seem to have a grey'ish cast/hue to it?

Setting aside cut, when viewed in profile...


vs


...the second one seems grey'ish for some reason, but that could just be the video.
 

munchee

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
617
The H VVS2 that you picked have 12.5% Crown Height!!! On top of that, 60.2 depth!!! That won’t be pretty I believe, unless you like flat stone? Which I believe you won’t? It’s 2ct because the cutter want to hit 2ct mark and sell it at higher price if it hits 2ct.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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This one is available cheaper from USA certed and James Allen. The arrows look off in the JA video, may be the tilt.



Thanks for the additional links. Food for thought. Maybe WF would price match? Also, if you brought in from WF, they could do all the advanced images on your behalf.

Looking closer at the computer generated (ray traced) ASET on the cert I see there is some leakage around 9 o'clock. And also leakage at select locations around the perimeter. All circled in pink.

When I looked at this the first time, my eyes bled the green & grey together as green only so my apologies in that regard.

Also it appears there is some painting, which is the increased greens from a standard stone. However, keeping mind it maintains AGS000 grading which is important considering this summary statement on painting & digging effects:

"Even moderate pavilion painting (2A, 3A) and digging anywhere on the diamond (1B, 2B, 2C) should be downgraded. However, crown-only painting (1A) should be treated differently, as it does not reduce performance until extremes and can be used to positively enhance optical properties. This agrees with the American Gem Society’s diamond-specific ray-tracing research, studies at Moscow State University and independent leaders in the field of optics.

To this end, we believe crown-only painting should be independent of other painting/digging judgments."



Capture.PNG

InkedCapture2_LI.jpg
 

Snowdrop13

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,592
Speaking of that video, and this can be a quick lesson for me, but does that one seem to have a grey'ish cast/hue to it?

Setting aside cut, when viewed in profile...


vs


...the second one seems grey'ish for some reason, but that could just be the video.

I saw that AGS stone, it looks pretty but I wonder if it has a slight brown tint? Might account for the seemingly low-ish price?
 

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
126
Thanks for the additional links. Food for thought. Maybe WF would price match? Also, if you brought in from WF, they could do all the advanced images on your behalf.

Looking closer at the computer generated (ray traced) ASET on the cert I see there is some leakage around 9 o'clock. And also leakage at select locations around the perimeter. All circled in pink.

When I looked at this the first time, my eyes bled the green & grey together as green only so my apologies in that regard.

Also it appears there is some painting, which is the increased greens from a standard stone. However, keeping mind it maintains AGS000 grading which is important considering this summary statement on painting & digging effects:

"Even moderate pavilion painting (2A, 3A) and digging anywhere on the diamond (1B, 2B, 2C) should be downgraded. However, crown-only painting (1A) should be treated differently, as it does not reduce performance until extremes and can be used to positively enhance optical properties. This agrees with the American Gem Society’s diamond-specific ray-tracing research, studies at Moscow State University and independent leaders in the field of optics.

To this end, we believe crown-only painting should be independent of other painting/digging judgments."



Capture.PNG

InkedCapture2_LI.jpg

Sledge I'll be honest it's a valiant effort!! :)
This actually is the best alternative non-WF stone that's come up in my multi-week search so far

Right now the color on that stone is throwing me off a bit... it looks more opaque but I can't put my finger on what the cause it. At the moment I'm leaning towards the I stone from my original two; it does have the knot, but could I cover it with a prong? And then beyond that, I dare say I've looked at more I stones than anyone else on this board over the past few weeks... it's been hours each day rotating stones into profile views and comparing them, and I think this I stone of mine is at the extreme tippy-top of the GIA I range... I almost view it as a secret H.

I'm still open to suggestions - you've shown me it's possible! But I've got that original I as my end of day default now given the near-unanimous feedback on the cut vs the H (which honestly in my mind is the cooler stone, but hey...)
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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5,204
I saw that AGS stone, it looks pretty but I wonder if it has a slight brown tint? Might account for the seemingly low-ish price?

This is a really good article by VC regarding color undertones.

Also it has two I stones, one with yellow and the other brown undertones to show the different effects.

 

musicloveranthony

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Messages
299
Well step on up with recommendations...!

I'm just here naysaying without offering constructive recommendations! Darn me! Haha.

What about reaching out to one of the diamond concierge services and asking for their help? I could help, but I bet it would feel better to support their business :)
 

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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I'm just here naysaying without offering constructive recommendations! Darn me! Haha.

What about reaching out to one of the diamond concierge services and asking for their help? I could help, but I bet it would feel better to support their business :)

Lol oh man... I'll just go on suffering here for the moment then :lol:
I do think those concierge services absolutely have a role to play though for some people - luckily I'm able to devote unhealthy amounts of time to this and solicit the advice of the top diamond aficionados of the Internet
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I like the one Sledge found.
 

musicloveranthony

Shiny_Rock
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299
Lol oh man... I'll just go on suffering here for the moment then :lol:
I do think those concierge services absolutely have a role to play though for some people - luckily I'm able to devote unhealthy amounts of time to this and solicit the advice of the top diamond aficionados of the Internet

I'm just being a poop. Hah.

When I get bored after work I'll do some digging :)
 

luckygreen317

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 26, 2011
Messages
61
I like the left if I had to choose between the 2.

If size trumps all, no need to read the rest of my comments....
but going to a 1.90-1.99 carat may give you more viable options for your money. The recipient would not to visually be able to tell the difference looking at a 1.95 versus 2.00. I have a 1.75 carat set in a halo and it visually looks larger than my friend's 2.00 (her words).
 

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
126
Listen to Sledge! You are way overcomplicating this and going in the wrong direction. Spending this money you should not have to sacrifice cut or clarity to that extent. Sledge showed you the ideal stone, hope you have that one on Hold. Really do not procrastinate when you are given a great option by experts here.

Dude that stone is grey
 

Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
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I’m neither a dude nor did I specifically mean an exact stone, I did not check whether he picked a grey stone sorry:))) All I mean is generally speaking please pick an ideal cut stone over these. Trust me in the long run you will Thank yourself a thousand times. I’m just saying a pancake for an engagement ring yikes no. For anything else if dirt cheap I might not say this but it is not dirt cheap either. Get the real deal as this is such an important occassion.
 

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
126
I like the left if I had to choose between the 2.

If size trumps all, no need to read the rest of my comments....
but going to a 1.90-1.99 carat may give you more viable options for your money. The recipient would not to visually be able to tell the difference looking at a 1.95 versus 2.00. I have a 1.75 carat set in a halo and it visually looks larger than my friend's 2.00 (her words).

I'm allll about 1.95, believe me. But there are none. And I mean... none. I've looked.

There's a 1.92ct I on WhiteFlash that could fill that role at $17,700... but, to break the barrier on the 2ct, give up the super ideal, and save $4K... it's a trade for the moment I'm willing to make
 
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