Tsavorite Custom Ring via DanielM

[mimB]

I am delurking to document the process of working with Caren and Dan of DanielMJewelry @ http://www.etsy.com/shop/danielmjewelry to create a tsavorite ring.
It's my first time on a custom jewelry project, and I don't foresee many occasions to repeat the experience - this will be my "relationship ring" (the splurge on a piece of jewelry around the engagement/wedding time). So that's my main reason for this thread. My second reason is that the ring setting will likely take 1-2 months, and I need moral support not to chew off my hands while waiting for the final product!

I contacted DanielM with the following request - a five stone bezel ring, size 10, delicate. Rose gold for the bezels and argentium silver for the band of 2-3mm width. Bezels that are open on the sides if possible to let in light. The stones:
>> Center Stone: tsavorite, 6mm x 5 mm cushion from Bruce @ Tsavorite.com (here's the thread of me choosing the stone: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/looking-for-a-tsavorite-on-a-budget.177922/)
>> Inner side stones: 3mm off-round sapphires from Yvonne @ Cecile Raley Desings (listing: https://www.etsy.com/transaction/97280917)
>> Outer side stones: 4mm round rhodolite garnets from Yvonne also (listing: https://www.etsy.com/transaction/105041882)

The design doodle I ended up going with:


The photo of the stone layout:


One of the first things Caren told me as she responded to my custom order request was that a CAD would be necessary to see if the stones could actually be laid out as I wanted. Specifically, laying them out side by side would mean around a minimum of 24mm of finger coverage (assuming .5mm width for each bezel) - which is a lot! It's almost an inch. I realized that even for fingers as chubby as mine (size 10-11), an inch of stone real estate would likely result in me banging the ring on everything my hand comes across.


We've decided to wait for the CAD, however, before altering the initial design.

The stones I'm using for this project are $940 of value based on what I paid: $800 for tsavorite, the rest for the rhodolites and sapphires. For me, it's a lot of money to spend on jewelry (especially just parts of jewelry, rather than a complete piece), so I questioned Caren about getting insurance for the stones against damage during setting. She recommend Jewelers Mutual, as a number of DanielM's customers apparently used them before.
There are also some PS threads that make me think they'd be able to provide a policy I'm looking for:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jewelers-mutual-any-problems-with.52604/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/insuring-loose-stones-while-it-is-being-set.173132/

So I've e-mailed JM (because I'm silly and a little terrified of grown up phone calls), and once I figure out about getting a policy (or not, depending on the cost), I'll be shipping my stones off to DanielM!

 

[GemFever]

Exciting!

In your drawing, the bezels on the outside round stones look kind of squarish. Is that a conscious part of the design, did you discuss it with Caren?

Looking forward to seeing the CADs! Is there an approximate date for when you'll have them?

 

[mimB]

Yes!! Really exciting. In fact, how do you distract yourself from constantly thinking about your ring projects as they are happening? I'm having trouble not exploding in slow motion.

The squarish - let's say, cushiony - bezels for the outer side stones were on purpose. I did not discuss them with Caren yet - though now that you've pointed it out, I'll get braver and will bring it up once I ship the stones to them.
When she said - we need to do a CAD - I understood it as "this design will potentially not work at all" and so I have curbed some of my hopefulness to avoid disappointment. I wonder if it would be a drastic adjustment to the CAD - to try and visualize the bezels as stone shaped vs cushiony shaped.

In any case, Caren estimated 2 weeks for CAD once they receive the stones, though general timeframe could extend if they get busier.

 

[fiona00004]

Oh man, can't wait to see the ring! Can't wait to see the CAD first! Love the silver and rose gold combo. Someday I would love to have a custom project done too. I kinda feel bad about living in Canada because the shipping process is more complicated and worrisome....

I think the cushiony shape around the stones would look really really nice... gives the style an original touch.

 

[Rosebloom]

Wow - this is going to be a gorgeous ring!!!

Just a thought - if it's too big and you have to alter the design, I think the tsav and sapphires would look awesome with very small (5 pointers, around 2.4mm?) white diamonds. But I'm loving what you designed so I really hope it works!

 

[royalstarrynight]

Wow looks like an intense first project!

I would think about setting it into a pendant for comfort or go to any jewelry store to try on a 5 stone with stones that size to make sure it's really what you want.

Also just as a side comment open side bezels probably won't help the stones stay brighter since the girdle will be covered.

Good luck! I look forward to seeing your project progress!

 

[GemFever]

The squarish - let's say, cushiony - bezels for the outer side stones were on purpose. I did not discuss them with Caren yet - though now that you've pointed it out, I'll get braver and will bring it up once I ship the stones to them.
When she said - we need to do a CAD - I understood it as "this design will potentially not work at all" and so I have curbed some of my hopefulness to avoid disappointment. I wonder if it would be a drastic adjustment to the CAD - to try and visualize the bezels as stone shaped vs cushiony shaped.

I think your design is quite doable, so I don't think that's what Caren meant. I would imagine they prefer to do CADs for any new design that's not already in their inventory, just to make sure it works out well.

How do I keep myself occupied while waiting? By going crazy and spending hours on PS, of course!

 

[mimB]

Wow looks like an intense first project!

I would think about setting it into a pendant for comfort or go to any jewelry store to try on a 5 stone with stones that size to make sure it's really what you want.

Also just as a side comment open side bezels probably won't help the stones stay brighter since the girdle will be covered.

Good luck! I look forward to seeing your project progress!

RoyalStarryNight, that's some good advice I will follow! Regarding open bezels, I'll remember to ask DanielM for their thoughts - because if that'll add them work but no brightness to the stones, then - considering how small and shallow the stones are, closed bezels would be the easiest.

Oh man, can't wait to see the ring! Can't wait to see the CAD first! Love the silver and rose gold combo. Someday I would love to have a custom project done too. I kinda feel bad about living in Canada because the shipping process is more complicated and worrisome....

I think the cushiony shape around the stones would look really really nice... gives the style an original touch.

Fi.Z, I can't wait to see the CAD either! The whole CAD design process sounds like magic to me - taking a doodle and engineering a physical ring that would not only be pretty but be sturdy and comfortable? Witchcraft!!
And yeah, I hear around PS that shipping from US to Canada is a headache with the need to clear customs. The other way around is ridiculously easy, so I'm sorry that doesn't go both ways.

Wow - this is going to be a gorgeous ring!!!

Just a thought - if it's too big and you have to alter the design, I think the tsav and sapphires would look awesome with very small (5 pointers, around 2.4mm?) white diamonds. But I'm loving what you designed so I really hope it works!

Rosebloom, thanks!
So about the option of diamonds... at that size, what matters most about diamond selection? For example, how do I make sure that they don't overwhelm the colored stones? Also, is it better/easier to ask the vendor I'm using to supply them or search them out myself?
I know nothing about diamonds...

GemFever, yeah. Your are right, and I am just being pessimistic. Caren overall did sound like they'd be able to make the design work.
Whaa, I can't wait to ship the stones off to them! A representative from Jewelers Mutual answered by query, and I basically need to put together a receipt for the tsavorite (that includes a description, date and value) and a letter from DanielM that describes the setting we're planning on and the work that will go into it. And only once I submit those with an application, will I get the quote.
Also, the JM representative answered my inquiry on the same day as I submitted it, and got back to me on any further questions within the hour, pretty much - but did not actually read my inquiry very well. I had to repeat several questions, etc.
I might just call them tomorrow to get a more coherent idea of what I'm supposed to do and how to see about a policy.

 

[chrono]

I would need to see the CAD mockup first as well. In general, squares and rounds do not go well together, even if cushiony. I had a ring like that once and it bugged me to no end as I kept seeing Princess Leia and her side ear buns. I am also not fond of closed bezel as well because I enjoy viewing the gem's profile and being able to clean that part too. Some gems don't look as good once bezeled, so that is another consideration.

 

[bluebirrrd]

Oh, mim I love your design and stones! This probably sounds like crazy talk, but have you considered a double finger ring? It would be so amazing.

 

[Rosebloom]

Mim, I'd trust DanielM to select the diamonds if you go that route. Or if you're going for perfection, you could get a F/G VS "A Cut Above" diamond from Whiteflash - arguably the finest modern round brilliant available. Frankly at that size the cost would not be too bad - I'd probably do it just for the pleasure of owning the highest possible quality diamonds. You'd have to call them for that size. THey don't typically sell melee loose but I've heard of some cases where they do, so some begging might be effective.

 

[periwinklegirl]

Hi mimB,
Lovely stones! I particularly like the tsav/sapphire combo. I have a ring project with the same colour combo, but in reverse (sapphire centre/tsav sides).

One thing I noticed - sorry if you've already thought of this - when you are calculating ring/finger coverage, you need to use a flexible tape measure (instead of a ruler) and measure around the curve of your finger, rather than flat across the top. Does that make sense?
This is more true with smaller stones, and less so with larger, raised settings.
My finger is size 9 and I easily have room for an inch of coverage - that's only the front half of the ring on me!

I always find that my stones look smaller when set. I think it's because I'm looking at them from farther away.

We all have the problem of how to distract yourself from thinking about your project. Sadly, for me, I often think about another project to relieve the pressure!

Good luck and looking forward to seeing the CAD!

 

[mimB]

I would need to see the CAD mockup first as well. In general, squares and rounds do not go well together, even if cushiony. I had a ring like that once and it bugged me to no end as I kept seeing Princess Leia and her side ear buns. I am also not fond of closed bezel as well because I enjoy viewing the gem's profile and being able to clean that part too. Some gems don't look as good once bezeled, so that is another consideration.

Chrono,
I never understood how the designers in that series could think that Princess Leia's hairstyle was anything but attractive... Unless they did it on purpose, to make us take her less seriously?
I was under the impression that garnets weren't a good stone for daily ring wear, which is my intention for this ring, at this point. I went with a bezel primarily as a means to protect the stones - do you think that was overkill and that prongs would have been enough?

Oh, mim I love your design and stones! This probably sounds like crazy talk, but have you considered a double finger ring? It would be so amazing.

Bluebirrrd,
Thank you! Do you have any double finger rings? Are they comfortable? I feel like they're for days when you're not planning to move your fingers (So, like, typing in one is out of the question?)
There's this really cute one I found, though: http://www.etsy.com/listing/91626383/double-finger-ring-silver-owls-jewelry
There's also the geometric ones in this shop which look *drool* from the photos: http://www.etsy.com/shop/FemmeMecanique?section_id=11852090

Mim, I'd trust DanielM to select the diamonds if you go that route. Or if you're going for perfection, you could get a F/G VS "A Cut Above" diamond from Whiteflash - arguably the finest modern round brilliant available. Frankly at that size the cost would not be too bad - I'd probably do it just for the pleasure of owning the highest possible quality diamonds. You'd have to call them for that size. THey don't typically sell melee loose but I've heard of some cases where they do, so some begging might be effective.

Rosebloom, thanks for the reply and the advice!
If I go that route, I'll be going through DanielM then - I don't know enough diamonds to even tell "perfection", so I'm not sure whether it would be worth for me. Unless GemFever successfully converts me into a diamond appreciator in the next couple of weeks (which I do not put past her )

Hi mimB,
...

One thing I noticed - sorry if you've already thought of this - when you are calculating ring/finger coverage, you need to use a flexible tape measure (instead of a ruler) and measure around the curve of your finger, rather than flat across the top. Does that make sense?
This is more true with smaller stones, and less so with larger, raised settings.
My finger is size 9 and I easily have room for an inch of coverage - that's only the front half of the ring on me!
...

Periwinklegirl,
*insert derpy smiley here*
I.. totally did not consider this I'm currently failing to fing a tape measure, so I'll just sit tight and assume that the CAD will be able to correctly measure the curve available for the stones given my size.



General Update:
I mailed the stones today! DanielM should have them on Friday, at which time I'll pose several of the questions that you guys helpfully suggested:
- Would open side bezels help the stones be any brighter?
- Could the CADs easily be tweaked to compare a round vs cushiony bezel on the outer side stones?
- Taking a look at the actual stones, would they recommend a bezeled look for them or prongs?
- Would a bezel visually correct the off-roundness of one of the sapphires?
Then, on to waiting for 2 weeks for the CAD. Meanwhile, I'll try to finally go to a jewelry store to see five rings in person.

I also got the insurance from Jewelers Mutual. When I contacted them using their online forms, the replies I got were very speedy, but also standard - I could tell that the representative did not read my questions carefully (she kept talking about my diamond, hah). I did, however, get a confirmation that for items that are less than $5000 in value, all that is needed for a policy is a description of the setting, and a detailed receipt for the stone.

Caren provided me with a letter of description in the following format:
"We <the vendor> have been commissioned to design and fabricate a setting for <customer name>, using <list of stones, types and sizes>. The setting to be provided is <setting description: style, metals, approximate value>."

I contacted Bruce Bridges for an electronic invoice - and he was soo helpful and pleasant that I almost felt bad for not taking my whole savings and getting some large stone from him. He referred me to a contact of his at Jewelers Mutual, and my following phone and email communications went through her - at which point my experience with JM was fantastic. As I requested, Bruce provided me a detailed receipt, where he listed:
Stone type, origin, treatments ("not enhanced"), carat weight, shape, size, total price, and date of purchase.

The total approximate value for the stones I'm using and the setting is currently at $1900 - at cost to me. When discussing the amount to insure the final setting for, JM asked for retail value - and since I didn't have any, estimated it at $2500. Thusly, my insurance payment for 1 year's period for this ring came out to $26.
I guess I can't assess the real full experience unless I have to file a claim with JM, but at this point, this seems like a small cost to make sure I can replace the tsavorite if it breaks during setting.

So yeah. I'm optimistic and excited and omg I hope it works out.

 

[minousbijoux]

Mim: good luck with everything! I want to thank you for the detailed info you provided on JM and the process with them - that really helps. I'm surprised they relied on you to come up with the retail value - it just seems peculiar to rely on the client for that, but maybe I'm not understanding it completely?

 

[chrono]

How rough and tough will you be with this ring? You said daily wear but even then, if the right precaution is taken, I think an open bezel might be sufficient protection for a garnet. MZ has a spessartite garnet e-ring which is semi-bezeled and she takes it off for everything. It has held up well so far with the exception of some minor wear and tear. The bezel only protects the girdle, not the crown area. My personal preference is a open sided bezel instead of a tube style bezel. With coloured gemstones, I think any bit of light helps.

The wonderful thing about CADs is that you can change things on the fly. It's not always easy depending on what you want to do but yes, it can be tweaked from a round to cushiony bezel. For occasional wear, prongs are great but if you plan to wear it more often, bezel is the way to go. However, prongs are more forgiving in terms of off-symmetry stones whereas bezel, which has to follow the outline of the stone, will accentuate any off-roundness.

 

[pregcurious]

Can't wait to see the CADs

 

[velouriaL]

this is a really exciting project! I cant wait to see the CADs and watch the rest unfold. I really love that color combo!

 

[mimB]

Mim: good luck with everything! I want to thank you for the detailed info you provided on JM and the process with them - that really helps. I'm surprised they relied on you to come up with the retail value - it just seems peculiar to rely on the client for that, but maybe I'm not understanding it completely?

Minous,
I didn't question them enough to understand fully, but here's how the conversation went:
Me: so the setting value is X and the stone value is Y.
JM: Is that the wholesale or the retail value?
Me: ?? Uh. I got the stone directly from Bruce, and the setting is getting custom made by an online vendor...
JM: So then the price for the stone is whole sale. You see, we need to insure for retail value because our policy is for replacement - if you needed to get the same setting at a regular store, how much would it cost you there? Let's estimate it at 1.5X.

So... I think in case of damage to the stone during setting, I (or perhaps DanielM directly?) would need to get a replacement stone from Bruce for the same value, which is why it was ok to insure the stone for the wholesale value. (However, I did not clarify this with JM, so don't quote me on it).
JM also mentioned several times that they anticipate that Bruce's stone will appreciate in value over time, and this was another reason to insure the whole pieces for a price that was higher than cost to me.

I think if I was interested in getting insurance against loss, theft or damage in the long term, then it would make sense to take the ring, once completed, to an actual appraiser, and get an "official" retail value to insure the piece for.

Something interesting: the insurance policy states that they cover damage to an item, but do not cover wear and tear. Makes me wonder what that means, in terms of causation. Like, if you bump your ring and bend a prong, or chip it - will that be covered? Vs. - what if gradually, the prongs lose metal and need replacement - will that be covered?

Another curious thing - the first point on what to do in case of loss:

"Protect the Covered Property – “You” must take all reasonable steps to protect or recover the “covered property” at and after a loss has occurred to avoid further loss."

This makes me think that the better you follow their suggestions for keeping jewelry safe, the more likely they are to process your claim favorably?

Here are the advice itself:

1. When not wearing your jewelry, put it in a safe place. A home safe or safe-deposit box is best. If those aren't available, use a secure, locked and preferable immobile compartment.
2. Avoid keeping expensive jewelry in a jewelry box or in your dresser. You should only store your inexpensive or costume jewelry in these places. Your bedroom is the first place a thief will look for jewelry. Choose a location that is not easy for others to find, yet convenient for you.
3. Remove jewelry and put in a secure place before doing physical activity, such as sports, gardening, or when going in or near water.
4. Don't put jewelry in your pockets, even zippered ones.
5. Don't set jewelry on an open surface like a sink top, counter or public area.
6. Don't pack jewelry in luggage that will be handled by others or left in an unattended hotel room - keep it with you or use the in-room safe or hotel safe.
7. If you bump or catch your jewelry on something, inspect it immediately - look for loose prongs, broken clasps or missing stones. Put damaged jewelry in a safe place until it can be repaired.
8. Be careful when removing gloves - rings can be lost or prongs damaged easily.
9. Have a jeweler clean and inspect your jewelry regularly.

 

[minousbijoux]

Thanks for the detail and your thoughts. Don't get me wrong, I think its critical for you to have it insured at retail value as they suggest, I just thought it odd that they appeared to be looking to you for those ballpark numbers. That said though, since they are, I would keep in mind that the stone has likely already appreciated significantly since you've purchased it. I say that because it appears that cut stones from old rough at old prices have come and gone (I'm assuming your stone was among them pricewise), so current stones have likely been cut from more expensive rough to start. So even the "wholesale" price, in reality, is likely already more than you paid.

You are wise to be concerned about their directions and definitions, and it sounds like you'll have no problem being covered in the unfortunate event that you need your ring replaced.

 

[chrono]

Even if you buy directly from BB, the price you paid is considered retail. Bruce sells to both vendors and consumers with different pricing for each group. The retail price of your stone will be far below what you paid. Should the stone need to be replaced, you do not have to get it from Bruce again. You are open to getting a similar stone from any vendor. I can tell you though that it is very rare to have a stone damaged during the setting process unless it is particularly included or soft or has some other existing durability issues.

Wear and tear is what is experienced over time. Damage to the ring and stone is certainly covered but a loose stone, loose prong, minor scratches and such things are not covered. Wearing down of the shank and prong is considered normal wear and tear.

All the precautions advised by JM are common sense safety procedures and should be followed regardless of being insured or otherwise. It decreases the risk of theft, damage or other loss. This is why I self-insure. Actually, if your ring stays in a safety box quite often, most insurance companies give you a greater discount.

 

[mimB]

Chrono,
Thank you for the explanations and assurances
Caren of DanielM also told me that it's really rare for a stone to break during setting - but on the off chance that the rare would happen... I wouldn't be able to get another stone within the next 2-5 years, since my partner and I have many other spending priorities. So, getting insurance definitely made sense.

A thing about a home safe or safety deposit box... I've read here that having a safe in one's home that isn't bolted to the wall or floor is useless - because it can be picked up and carried off. What if you live in a rented apartment, however? Can't really bolt anything to anywhere...
Also, there's so little space to search through in an apartment - everything is practically in the open, and I feel like any cabinets and closets are easy to go through too. Basically, the only places I can imagine a thief not going through would be the bottom of one's laundry basket, or the back of overstuffed condiments shelves, or the faraway corner in the bathroom sink or something. None of those places are really convenient for the owner either though.

I poked JM about parts of the insurance I wasn't sure about, basically the same ones that Chrono addressed - and got back similar answers.

1) If a stone gets damaged during setting, JM will work on replacement with the jeweler or vendor of the client's choice. This doesn't have to be the same vendor that provided the original stone. The Jeweler of the client's choice will provide JM with the invoice for the replacement and JM will reimburse the jeweler directly on the client's behalf, up to the limit of the client's insurance.

2) As a private individual, the client purchases Jewelers Mutual Perfect Circle Insurance for personal jewelry, which gets insured at the Current Retail Replacement Value. In contrast, if the client owns a jewelry store or is a principal owner of a jewelry business, they can insure their personal jewelry at the Wholesale Replacement Limit.

3) The insurance doesn't cover wear and tear, but covers damage.
Wear and tear is something that happens gradually over time. Example: over years the ring shank has worn thin and needs to be resized or reshanked – not covered.
Damage is something that happens suddenly and accidental. Examples: you look down and notice a side stone is missing, the center stone has been chipped or is cracked, a prong is bent and needs repair, a prong is prong off and the ring needs repair and restoration -- all would be covered.

Should only be a week now till the first CADs. Can't waiiiitt!!

 

[chrono]

The wholesale price of your stone will be far below what you paid.

Ah, I just noticed the huge error in my explanation. So sorry. I agree that unless the safe can be bolted down, the thieves will just cart the entire safe away. Perhaps insurance is the way to go for your situation. It will not be horribly expensive if you don't live in a huge city.

CADs! I can't wait to see them too.

 

[iluvshinythings]

How do I keep myself occupied while waiting? By going crazy and spending hours on PS, of course!

That's what I did while I was waiting on mine. I lurked around PS and spent a lot of time on Ebay. I also spent a huge amount of time painting my nails.

I love your design and the colors of the gems. It's going to be gorgeous!

(My friend hides all of her jewelry in her bathroom with her sanitary supplies. Her theory is that a thief would never look through a box of tampax.) I think insurance is a much better plan.

 

[alice87]

Good luck with your project, please post pics!

 

[minousbijoux]

I say cook some good meals! Its time consuming, absorbing, and you have something good at the end!

I too am looking forward to the CADs.

 

[royalstarrynight]

Hey MimB!

Hope your CADs arrived safely and wishing you happy thoughts during your design process!

Update us soon

 

[mimB]

The CADs are in!
Dan sent them to me yesterday, but I haven't had the chance to analyze them yet. I'm planning to do that today/tomorrow, and come up with some adjustment sketches.
Meanwhile, what do you think? Anything jumps out at you as weird looking?

A couple of notes from Dan:
- because these are computer generated, they will appear extremely heavy with sharp edges. The finished piece will have a high polish with softened edges.
- the bezels are 0.6mm thick around the stones, and 1.5mm tall
- the center and 2 outside bezels are drawn with a cushion-ish shape
- fearing the integrity of the ring with just bezels, Dan added the supports under them

 

[mimB]

Some more.

 

[derbygal]

Can't wait to see the finished product!

 

[GemFever]

I love the way the colors are projected to look in rose gold. It's going to be so unique! Can't wait to see it