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Tips on negotiating?

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new2this101

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
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Hello everyone,
I have been reading the posts on the site for some time, now finally it's my time to buy. I am going to a local jewelry store (not a chain store) tomorrow. They have a few loose diamonds that I have selected, so what should i say or do to get them to reduce the price? How much extra would i have to pay for at a local store vs online for a similar spec. diamond? They told me that their prices are cheaper as they get their diamonds straight from belgium (no middle man). ALL ARE GIA CERTIFIED.

My arguments:-
1. I am going to pay cash for the diamond (approx $5250)
2. I am from out of state so technically I don't have to pay sales tax

Thanks in advance!

My diamond specs:-
Round, Excellent Cut/Polish/Symmetry, around 1 carat, F/G color, SI1 (eye clean), No fluor.
 
Date: 7/12/2009 8:48:44 AM
Author:new2this101
Hello everyone,
I have been reading the posts on the site for some time, now finally it's my time to buy. I am going to a local jewelry store (not a chain store) tomorrow. They have a few loose diamonds that I have selected, so what should i say or do to get them to reduce the price? How much extra would i have to pay for at a local store vs online for a similar spec. diamond? They told me that their prices are cheaper as they get their diamonds straight from belgium (no middle man). ALL ARE GIA CERTIFIED.

My arguments:-
1. I am going to pay cash for the diamond (approx $5250)
2. I am from out of state so technically I don't have to pay sales tax

Thanks in advance!

My diamond specs:-
Excellent Cut/Polish/Symmetry, around 1 carat, F/G color, SI1 (eye clean), No fluor.
Click to expand...
Welcome!

I would compare prices of similar using the Pricescope your Diamond search tool above, this will tell you what the prices are going for online, then if the diamonds you are interested in from the store are much more, this gives you a figure to aim for. You could throw a lowball and see what they come back with until you can agree on a price.

Also if you wish, post the specs of any diamonds you are interested in here and we can take a look for you. Also sales tax is collectable if you purchase out of state to the best of my knowledge. Also unless you particularly dislike fluorescence, faint or medium won't have much of an impact on the stone visually.
 
Hi new,

I would use the Pricescope your diamond feature at the top of the page. Find out what you could get for the same thing (or very similar) from online, and add a certain amount. What you feel would be fair. Retailers do have overhead, so they have to make some money. Tell them that's your offer. If they don't want to take it, tell them thank you and that you'll buy online.


They can mark it up any amount they want, from a few hundred to over a thousand, so don't be too surprised. But do make sure in pricing them that you are comparing apples with apples.
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Date: 7/12/2009 8:55:49 AM
Author: Ellen
Hi new,

I would use the Pricescope your diamond feature at the top of the page. Find out what you could get for the same thing (or very similar) from online, and add a certain amount. What you feel would be fair. Retailers do have overhead, so they have to make some money. Tell them that's your offer. If they don't want to take it, tell them thank you and that you'll buy online.


They can mark it up any amount they want, from a few hundred to over a thousand, so don't be too surprised. But do make sure in pricing them that you are comparing apples with apples.
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BA DUM PISH!
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Date: 7/12/2009 8:48:44 AM
Author:new2this101

2. I am from out of state so technically I don''t have to pay sales tax
Click to expand...

Actually you DO have to pay sales tax. If you take delivery in person at the guy''s store you have to pay that state''s sales tax. If you have him ship it to your house you are still supposed to pay YOUR state''s sales tax.
 
Yes it is the law that at the end of the year we each report all the out of state purchases and pay use tax on them.

I think 95% of Americans ignore this law.
Billions of dollars in tax revenue are being lost.

With Internet purchases growing each year the government will probably soon change the law so sellers must add the appropriate sales tax based on the customer's state.

I was astonished that one of the PS vendors stated on their website that I didn't have to pay (state X) sales tax if I bought from them.
The X was replaced by my correct state.

Their software must have identified my state based on my IP address.
If this vendor is reading . . . this is very creepy from the customer's point of view, and probably opens you up to litigation from the tax authorities.
 
‘Middle men’ are often pointed out as the culprit in pricing but it doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny. The brokers add a certain efficiently to the system because they sell into many different marketplaces simultaneously. Overhead costs like shipping, security, etc. become effectively shared by many different merchants and it allows specialists to ply one narrow area of the trade that they can do better than others. That’s not to say they can’t charge more than they’re worth but the mere presence of brokers or specialty services in the chain is not of a bad deal. Incidentally, the people who are offering to cut out the middlemen are themselves middlemen and probably so are their suppliers in Belgium.

That said, it’s pretty easy to negotiate when you’ve got a fairly narrow set of specs like you’ve done. Find comparable offers from other vendors of similar merchandise. In the case of dealers who advertise online, which is an increasing percentage of them, you can print out the offer along with a copy of the lab report and simply show it to your proposed dealer. “Here’s the stone I’m considering buying elsewhere and here’s what it costs. I would prefer to buy from you for whatever reason but I need you to come down on the price to make that happen.” That will either get a lower price or a sales pitch for why it’s worth more coming from them than from their competitor (or both). All that remains is to decide if the resultant deal is the one for you.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
The sales tax thing isn’t all that complicated but it’s not the answer most people want to hear. Merchants buy a license to collect sales tax from their local taxing authority. This money gets paid to the taxman who then distributes it between the various school districts, bus districts or whatever that make up the tax rate. It’s slightly different for every state and every city. If they make a sale to someone outside of their district they are not required or even permitted to collect taxes even if they wanted to. This is NOT the same as saying you don’t owe taxes, only that the merchant is not going to collect them on the state's behalf. In these cases, the taxing authority will be your own home state. The rules vary from state to state but every state that has a sales tax has a ‘use’ tax with identical rates that covers this exact situation. The rules and any needed forms will be listed on your own state revenuer’s home page. Search for 'sales tax' or 'use tax'. They usually make it pretty easy to find because there is so much confusion over this topic. Some will include it as a line item on the state income tax form while others have a special form you need to submit. It’s correct that people seem to forget this tax fairly regularly and whether you pay it or not is between you and the taxman but the merchant has no say in the matter.

For example, here's the form from my own home state of Colorado

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Thanks for the great explanation Neil!
 
Thanks everyone.... hopefully i''ll get a great deal!
 
Hi. I wouldn''t pay cash at a BM. Using a card GREATLY increases your buyer''s protection. Especially one like Amex that has some great warranties and protections for buyers.
 
Make sure you do your cut research before you go in. Not all GIA Excellent cuts are created equal.

The key to negotiating, according to my father, is to know what you want to pay at the start of the negotiation. If your goal is just to "pay less" or "get a fair price," then you'll never really know how you're doing in the process or when to stop. In order to get to the number you want, you probably need to come in under that number and meet in the middle. If you are uncomfortable claiming to want to pay a price that you know is too low, the alternative would be to lay all your cards on the table -- this is what I want to pay, and this is why -- and let them take it or leave it. And you must be willing to walk away if the vendor won't budge. Often this leads to the vendor miraculously being able to cut you a deal that 5 seconds earlier they weren't. But if a miracle doesn't happen and you are unhappy with the price, then you walk.

Paying cash (if you literally meant cash or wire transfer) should earn you a little leeway since the seller won't be paying the credit card company. Your other argument might hinge on their claim to have prices lower than internet pricing. If you come in with printouts of some stones that come with lifetime upgrade policies, ASET and IdealScope images, etc., and the prices of those stones are less than what the store if charging you, what can they say? (Although actually, with an exception which I list below, 1 carat F-G stones that fit the criteria I just stated are actually running $5500 to $6500.)

Also, be aware that there are many other factors than the ones you've listed that influence pricing. Here's an example. Can you tell why these two diamonds (from the same seller) are $1k different in price?

1.00 G SI1 GIA Excellent $4538 with PS discount
1.01 G SI1 GIA Excellent $5535 with PS discount
 
Date: 7/13/2009 1:13:56 PM
Author: Gypsy
Hi. I wouldn''t pay cash at a BM. Using a card GREATLY increases your buyer''s protection. Especially one like Amex that has some great warranties and protections for buyers.
Click to expand...
BIG HUGE FAT DITTO! I cannot stress this enough!!

When you pay cash there is no record of your purchase which menas you have little or no recourse if you have any issues whatsoever. And although you will probably have a trouble free transaction, there are many people popping up on PS each week who do *not* have good transactions with B&M stores. So try to find a better way of haggling... based on fair market value... rather than trying to find a way to reduce the price that leaves you vulnerable.
 
Date: 7/13/2009 4:07:56 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie


Date: 7/13/2009 1:13:56 PM
Author: Gypsy
Hi. I wouldn't pay cash at a BM. Using a card GREATLY increases your buyer's protection. Especially one like Amex that has some great warranties and protections for buyers.
Click to expand...
BIG HUGE FAT DITTO! I cannot stress this enough!!

When you pay cash there is no record of your purchase which menas you have little or no recourse if you have any issues whatsoever. And although you will probably have a trouble free transaction, there are many people popping up on PS each week who do *not* have good transactions with B&M stores. So try to find a better way of haggling... based on fair market value... rather than trying to find a way to reduce the price that leaves you vulnerable.
Click to expand...
TRIPLE DITTO? Very good advice from the ladies!!!
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Interesting... well i guess the difference between them is that the cheaper one table% is higher and has Fluorescence. Also, the cheaper one is .01c smaller and in the enlarge picture it looks like it has some white spots or something. thanks everyone... by the time i am done i''ll be a gemologist (jk if only it were that easy)
 
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