Tips For Evaluating Rough Sapphires

[peakysapphire]

Hello!

I’m currently working with somebody to find a rough sapphire that will be cut for my engagement ring. I’m not sure how to best evaluate the rough I am being shown though.

I’m looking for any advice and some answers to questions:

• About how much larger should the rough be compared to what it will be when cut?
• What are some things to watch out for when evaluating rough?
• Should the rough be consistent in color? A pic I was sent of an option makes the color look almost splotchy.

I welcome any other information I should consider.

Thanks!
Samantha

 

[lovedogs]

I hope you are working with someone who will be sourcing rough and cutting the stone! If not, you need to know much more than the average consumer. If the person is good and trustworthy, they can answer all of the questions you asked above. If not, I strongly recommend getting a stone that is already cut

 

[shinyrocks]

Hello!

I’m currently working with somebody to find a rough sapphire that will be cut for my engagement ring. I’m not sure how to best evaluate the rough I am being shown though.

I’m looking for any advice and some answers to questions:

• About how much larger should the rough be compared to what it will be when cut?
• What are some things to watch out for when evaluating rough?
• Should the rough be consistent in color? A pic I was sent of an option makes the color look almost splotchy.

I welcome any other information I should consider.

Thanks!
Samantha

I would recommend working with a gem cutter that you trust, and then allow them to do the evaluating! Reading rough is not something that the average person is going to be able to do very well. It takes many years of experience, and even the experts sometimes don't get it spot on. When I've had things cut for me, I might ask for photos of the rough, but I always ask the cutter for descriptions or photos of what I should expect the FINISHED gem to look like, rather than trying to understand how to translate the rough to the finished gem myself.

 

[shinyrocks]

I hope you are working with someone who will be sourcing rough and cutting the stone! If not, you need to know much more than the average consumer. If the person is good and trustworthy, they can answer all of the questions you asked above. If not, I strongly recommend getting a stone that is already cut

Jinx I didn't see your post before I replied, but we're definitely of like mind on this one.

 

[lovedogs]

Jinx I didn't see your post before I replied, but we're definitely of like mind on this one.

Lol yup!!!!! Too risky otherwise

 

[peakysapphire]

They are doing the cutting and are experienced but they gave me a few options and I’m not sure which would be best or anything to look for in particular.

 

[Bron357]

Unfortunately it’s not that simple.
Sapphire is pleochroic meaning it has two colour ways along different axis one is more blue, the other purple blue. So it’s the orientation of the Crystal for cutting that determines what colour you’ll see as you look down on the gem after cutting.
Then you have colour zoning. As the sapphire crystal forms isn’t always equal conditions so you can get bands of lighter tone than others. How this will impact the rough after cutting is something only an experienced gem cutter can estimate.
Then you have imperfections. The crystal is not going to be perfect. There can be fissures, silk, healed fissures/ fingerprints, crystal inclusions within the rough. These have to be cut away or situated in a more favorable position or the resulting cut gem will be less than great.
Finally, taking all these factors into account you have how much of the rough crystal will be lost/ reduced to create the final faceted sapphire. It might be more than 50% carat loss ie a 3 carat rough turning into a 1.3 carat gem.
What exactly is the arrangement?
Are you simply choosing a piece of rough which you pay for yourself and then pay the cutter a fixed price to cut it into a sapphire gem?
Are you choosing a piece of rough which the gem cutter owns who will then cut it and you will pay whatever price the resultant quality / size turns out?
Do you get a choice to say “no, I don’t like the resulting sapphire so no I won’t buy it?” Or are you paying for the sapphire rough and cost of cutting upfront even if the sapphire turns out nothing like you want or hoped?
Sorry, but I see this not ending well for you if you have to pay upfront and don’t get a final choice after the rough is cut as to whether the resulting sapphire meets with your expectations or not.

 

[peakysapphire]

@Bron357 the guy I am working with is sourcing the rough for me as well as cutting it, so he is sending me options. I will pay a small fee once I choose a rough for cutting to lock in my commitment, but if I am unhappy with the finished product I will get that deposit back.

 

[Bron357]

@Bron357 the guy I am working with is sourcing the rough for me as well as cutting it, so he is sending me options. I will pay a small fee once I choose a rough for cutting to lock in my commitment, but if I am unhappy with the finished product I will get that deposit back.

Is there a particular reason why you are choosing this purchasing route?
The quality of the resultant sapphire will depend largely on the quality of the rough he can source and there’s sapphire rough out there that ranges from “supreme” all the way down to “industrial”. I presume you are just choosing blue colour, carat size (?) range and cut shape. Obviously is you want an unusual shape or cutting technique it makes sense to go this way, but if you are after more standard x carats, blue, oval shape, $X budget, then it’s an unusual journey for a novice gem buyer to take.
I would be clear with the gem supplier / cutter what end result you expect by showing him example photos of the colour/ tone you want plus shape and end carat weight. Then he should use his vast experience and knowledge to chose an appropriate rough sapphire that is likely to fulfill your requirements.
I’ve loved sapphires 30 plus years, I’ve owned and still own many faceted sapphires. I even have some sapphire rough! I’ve studied the gem under a microscope, I’m widely read especially as just a “consumer”. But could I look at a piece of sapphire rough and assess what colour, best shape and largest size will result after cutting?
No.

 

[lovedogs]

Is there a particular reason why you are choosing this purchasing route?
The quality of the resultant sapphire will depend largely on the quality of the rough he can source and there’s sapphire rough out there that ranges from “supreme” all the way down to “industrial”. I presume you are just choosing blue colour, carat size (?) range and cut shape. Obviously is you want an unusual shape or cutting technique it makes sense to go this way, but if you are after more standard x carats, blue, oval shape, $X budget, then it’s an unusual journey for a novice gem buyer to take.
I would be clear with the gem supplier / cutter what end result you expect by showing him example photos of the colour/ tone you want plus shape and end carat weight. Then he should use his vast experience and knowledge to chose an appropriate rough sapphire that is likely to fulfill your requirements.
I’ve loved sapphires 30 plus years, I’ve owned and still own many faceted sapphires. I even have some sapphire rough! I’ve studied the gem under a microscope, I’m widely read especially as just a “consumer”. But could I look at a piece of sapphire rough and assess what colour, best shape and largest size will result after cutting?
No.

Exactly. This is why I expressed hesitation initially. A trustworthy vendor would be telling OP about everything that @Bron357 mentioned and more. Plus there would hopefully be a no questions asked return policy. Have you see their cut stones? I really really wouldn't go this route if I were you.

 

[pwsg07]

Go to New to Coloured gemstone buying thread. There is a link for a faceting website. The photo you have is for checking the clarity. To read the colour, the stone should be on a piece of white paper. The stones I have custom cut have the problem with clarity and colour.

Do you have a sample photo of what you are looking for? Some Psers maybe able to help you to find a stone you want.

 

[peakysapphire]

@pwsg07 @lovedogs @Bron357
I’ve given him all of the specifications of what I’m looking for (size, cut, color) and created a Pinterest board (https://pin.it/2tnaxds7g2ekpv) with examples.

I’m going this route because the other people I’ve tried reaching out to haven’t been super helpful or have stopped responding. I’m picky in what I want color-wise, which is a lighter blue. Heck, I’m going to be wearing it my whole life.

You can find his work on IG: Choice Gems Co or the website gemsfacets.com

 

[peakysapphire]

Do you guys still think it’s not the best route?

Also, if anybody wants to help me try and find alternatives: I’m looking for an oval shape of about 2.5-3 cts that’s 6mm across or larger. Color is light to medium blue. Eye clean, minimal if any inclusions.

 

[lovedogs]

Do you guys still think it’s not the best route?

Also, if anybody wants to help me try and find alternatives: I’m looking for an oval shape of about 2.5-3 cts that’s 6mm across or larger. Color is light to medium blue. Eye clean, minimal if any inclusions.

I don't think it's the best route at all . It's a big risk, and this isn't a well known company. I don't think it would be as risky with a trusted vendor who walked you though the process. But that's not what seems to be happening here.

What is your budget?

 

[peakysapphire]

@lovedogs $6k

 

[lovedogs]

@lovedogs $6k

Can you show us a pic of your "ideal" color?

 

[Bron357]

Hi, definitely buy “ready made”.
There are a lot of sapphires out there. I’m in Australia so I can’t recommend any vendors but there AJS gems and Wildfish for a start.
These are two of mine, ovals, at around 2.8 carats on a size 7.5 finger. So it’s a nice size.
One thing though, you’ll notice that mine are “windowed”. With paler tone sapphires it’s more an issue. Mine are older gems, native cut so they have windows or “see through” centre. More modern and precision cuts will avoid this.
Most vendors will allow a “viewing period” ie you can return the gem for a full refund (excluding shipping costs) if it’s not as you expected. Choose a vendor who allows a return.

 

[peakysapphire]

Can you show us a pic of your "ideal" color?

I’ve put some samples in the Pinterest board linked above (https://pin.it/2tnaxds7g2ekpv) and here are two more examples.
This one is more preferable. And this one - which has some green but I do really like it.

 

[lovedogs]

For others to see bc I don't have Pinterest and sometimes it won't let me view stuff

 

[chroman]

Are either of these too purple?
https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-11-1194
https://www.finewatergems.com/store/p341/3.14_ct_Violetish-Blue_Sapphire.html

 

[lovedogs]

Are either of these too purple?
https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-11-1194
https://www.finewatergems.com/store/p341/3.14_ct_Violetish-Blue_Sapphire.html

That fine water one is so gorgeous

 

[lovedogs]

I know this is a "deeper' blue, but just had to post bc the size and shape and color are incredible.

https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-montana-12-706

 

[peakysapphire]

Is it just the pictures or do this have many more facets than, say, the oval one I linked to from Earth’s Treasury?

I 100% want an oval, not open to other options. And the first one from gemfix is nice @chroman but it almost looks ... too faceted to me. If that makes sense?

 

[Bron357]

That Gemfix one is a stunner. The colour and cut magnificent. Yes, lots of facets means more life and sparkle.
Two options from Etsy sellers

 

[lovedogs]

Is it just the pictures or do this have many more facets than, say, the oval one I linked to from Earth’s Treasury?

I 100% want an oval, not open to other options. And the first one from gemfix is nice @chroman but it almost looks ... too faceted to me. If that makes sense?

Totally makes sense! It's a "Portuguese" style cut, so lots and lots of facets. If you don't like the look don't worry, it's not going to appeal to everyone. What do you think about the other ones we linked? Also too many facets?

 

[peakysapphire]

@Bron357 first one is too green, I like the color of the second one. Unfortunately it isn’t eye clean and I’m looking for something that is.

@lovedogs I do have a soft spot for rose cuts so I definitely want something with less facets, which I haven’t really seen from Gemfix. Maybe why I’m drawn to Earth’s Treasury?

 

[lovedogs]

@Bron357 first one is too green, I like the color of the second one. Unfortunately it isn’t eye clean and I’m looking for something that is.

@lovedogs I do have a soft spot for rose cuts so I definitely want something with less facets, which I haven’t really seen from Gemfix. Maybe why I’m drawn to Earth’s Treasury?

Makes sense! Are there any you like on Earth's treasury?

 

[lovedogs]

@Bron357 first one is too green, I like the color of the second one. Unfortunately it isn’t eye clean and I’m looking for something that is.

@lovedogs I do have a soft spot for rose cuts so I definitely want something with less facets, which I haven’t really seen from Gemfix. Maybe why I’m drawn to Earth’s Treasury?

Also, are you sure the second one @Bron357 isn't eye clean ? Did you ask the vendor? I think IRL it likely is eye clean .

 

[peakysapphire]

@lovedogs I was working with Jeff from Earth's Treasury to pick out a sapphire but he hasn't responded to my last couple emails in weeks so I'm definitely being picky in what I want, but I think that should be understandable when you're looking to spend that kinda money on a stone.

In the listing for that sapphire it states there's some silk and I can see that in the pictures - I guess I'm not sure how that would translate to seeing it in person. It also looks a little dark on the sides. It's close to what I'm looking for but not my favorite.

 

[VividRed]

Have you tried asking Ed Bristol from Wildfish? This one is way above your budget and the shape is not what you want...but look at this COLOR:

https://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/unheated_ceylon_sapphire_4_20/10880/18356

You could also try AJS, very friendly and responsive customer service, plus a vast selection.

What do you make of this? https://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/3.08ct-ceylon-oval-blue-sapphire-b7787-/


Best of luck with your hunt!
VRed