Tiffany Novo or Larger ERD Cushion

[sub80]

I recently bought my wife a Tiffany Novo and now we''re considering building our own ring with a cushion from Mark T at ERD. She is very happy with the Novo (thrilled in fact) but she is also intrigued at the prospect of a significantly larger stone for the same $$.

I understand that the closest cut to the Novo is the GOG Square H&A (which are also very beautiful); but from what I see right now I can''t save that much by going that route - certainly not enough for a significantly larger stone which is what it will take for her to give up the Tiffany. For example, the Novo I bought is a 1.46 D VS1 and measures 6.70x6.68 and it was $27K+. GOG has a 1.47 D VS1 that faces up smaller because of the depth (6.44x6.44)and it is $21K+ before adding the setting. It seems you have to go to about 1.7 carats in the square H&A to get the same "spread" so I don''t think that would save enough $ to make a change.

So that leaves us with a square cushion as the other option (that is her favorite cut other than the Novo). Mark from ERD has selected this stone which fits the budget and her coloress reqirement and will be noticable larger than the Novo. I''d appreciate any feedback you have on the diamond.

Cushion Brilliant
2.51 Carats
7.94x7.77x5.34 (1.02)
F
SI1
Table 65
Depth 68.7
Polish/Sym EX/VG
Girdle: Very Thin to Extremely Thick (Faceted)
No Fluoro
GIA 2105237579

I''ve tried to attach the pictures he sent but it seems to limit me to one attachement?

Bottom line is we are torn on which direction we should go to be happiest. Bigger stone but give up color, clarity and probably some light return or stick with the genuine Tiffany which she knows she loves and really doesn''t have a problem with the size. She is right on the fence as am I and ultimatley we will have to choose, bu I would really appreciate some candid feedback and perhaps some perspectives we haven''t considered.

Also - if we go with ERD and have them build the ring, (I don''t live in NY) who would service the ring and do jewelers charge for polishing and checking settings?

Thanks!

 

[sub80]

Here is the other picture Mark sent.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Wow that''s a beautiful stone!

My opinion (and I''m by no means an expert, as many of the PSers here are) is that you wold be getting much more bang for your buck going the ERD/cushion route. The size difference is really big in this case, and if you''re spending a similar amount of money (I assume the prices come out similar?), then you''re getting a huge increase in size, with a very very negligible reduction in color and clarity.

I''m not sure how color sensitive your wife is (you mentioned the colorless requirement) but an F is pretty darn colorless on its own - I think you''d be hard-pressed to see any warmth in it. And as for clarity, SI1 is really not that big a step down from VS1. As long as it''s eye-clean and you and your wife really can''t tell the difference between that and a VS1 (just looking at it, not under a loupe), I think it''s worth putting the money into the bigger stone. And from all I''ve read here, I don''t think Mark is going to steer you in the wrong direction.

So are you going to return the Novo then, if you go the cushion route? And are you planning on putting it into a Novo-esque setting?

 

[Lorelei]

GORGEOUS cushion!!!

Its a tough decision!!! Personally I would go for size and that cushion if it is eyeclean to your standards, but it is up to your preferences. If the Tiffany name means a lot to you then keep that one. If your hearts are telling you to consider the extra size then go with this cushion - it is colourless, large, gorgeous and if eyeclean a rare and beautiful gem and a great way to get extra size for the budget. Check with Mark that the very thin part of the girdle isn't an issue, it isn't always a problem or potential durability issue but Mark will be able to advise you.

 

[mrssalvo]

I love tiffany. I would love to own a tiffany ring, but I would not pay full price retail for one. I would gladly take one from signedpieces second hand though and avoid the huge price mark-up because I think tiffany''s does make a beautiful product. I think the novo is gorgeous but I would take the larger Mark t cushion in a similar setting for the price.

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 1/30/2009 10:48:11 AM
Author: mrssalvo
I love tiffany. I would love to own a tiffany ring, but I would not pay full price retail for one. I would gladly take one from signedpieces second hand though and avoid the huge price mark-up because I think tiffany''s does make a beautiful product. I think the novo is gorgeous but I would take the larger Mark t cushion in a similar setting for the price.

HI:

Agreed.

But will your GF be upset if she did no longer owned a "Tiffany" ring?

cheers--Sharon

 

[CharmyPoo]

I think the diamond is gorgeous but at the end of the day your wife has to make the decision. It is a tough choice - go bigger or get a brand name. I am sure the F/SI1 won't be a problem but if you girlfriend likes to stay higher - you can tell Mark to look for something else. Personally, I would just keep the Novo if I already had it.

I will throw out another option here. Mark will be able to source these stones for you. 2.02 D VS1 - 8 Pav with 1.01 ratio and EX/EX. It will resemble the square shape of the Novo and the plot is more similar. I saw this diamond listed at $26,405 on another site but it requires password access. Not sure where Mark's price will land.
http://www.excellentdiamondcutters.com/diamonds/pc/2-02-D-VS1-Cushion-Loose-Diamond-p4496.htm

 

[Rock_of_Love]

I initially fell in love with the Novo when I started looking...and who wouldn''t love the "Tiffany" name...but, to have a 2.51 vs a 1.47, now that IS a difference!! I don''t think I would have any problem at all giving up the name for a *much* larger stone

After looking, I quickly decided that I could get so much more for my money by not getting a "name brand." And, you are certainly not giving up anything in quality. D,E and F are all colorless and personally I would struggle to tell any difference between the three (unless maybe - and I emphasize maybe - they were all side by side, upside down, on a white background...but when does that happen!!). And, I cannot tell any difference in clarity down to SI1, even SI2''s that are eye clean.

Bottom line...you have a beautiful stone, so is it the "Tiffany" name or the *much* larger, over 2 1/2 carat, gorgeous diamond?

Maybe it would help for her to try on a 2.51 carat at Tiffany''s to show her how the size looks on her hand??? What is her ring size??

 

[bee*]

If she''s not set on the Tiffany stone than if the other one is eyeclean I''d probably go with that one. Are Tiffanys allowing you the get the full price of the ring left?

 

[suchende]

I don''t follow, you already bought a Tiff ring? How is this still an option?

 

[Imdanny]

Date: 1/30/2009 11:39:29 AM
Author: Rock_of_Love
I initially fell in love with the Novo when I started looking...and who wouldn't love the 'Tiffany' name...but, to have a 2.51 vs a 1.47, now that IS a difference!! I don't think I would have any problem at all giving up the name for a *much* larger stone


After looking, I quickly decided that I could get so much more for my money by not getting a 'name brand.' And, you are certainly not giving up anything in quality. D,E and F are all colorless and personally I would struggle to tell any difference between the three (unless maybe - and I emphasize maybe - they were all side by side, upside down, on a white background...but when does that happen!!). And, I cannot tell any difference in clarity down to SI1, even SI2's that are eye clean.


Bottom line...you have a beautiful stone, so is it the 'Tiffany' name or the *much* larger, over 2 1/2 carat, gorgeous diamond?


Maybe it would help for her to try on a 2.51 carat at Tiffany's to show her how the size looks on her hand??? What is her ring size??

Actually, he would. VS1 to SI1 is a diminution in quality. Still, if the stone in question is eye clean, and assuming the gentleman can get the price back for the Tiffany ring (not sure how that's supposed to happen), I'd take Mark's stone over the Novo.

Keep in mind too that "cushion" can mean many different cuts, and Mark has access to many other different kinds of cushions, that if your wife hasn't, I'd at least rule out before making a final decision. I like the "chunky" ones with cutlets myself. Yum.

 

[LGK]

I''d go with the ERD stone. First, set stones that are in the colorless range are typically incredibly difficult to tell apart from each other for almost all of us, so I doubt it will make *any* noticeable difference to go from a D to an F. Upside down unset on white paper in flat lighting, perhaps one could see the difference but it would still be difficult; set, I highly doubt it will be even slightly noticeable.

Second, I doubt you''ll see a difference in light performance. Here''s why. A significantly larger stone is inherently sparklier, assuming the cut is at least decent, and this one appears a lot more than decent. The size difference *is* a significant one, therefore the new stone will be sparklier to the eye I would think. And, it''s quite possible the ERD cushion performs just as well as a Tiffany Novo anyway. I''m no cushion expert but I think it looks really nice.

Also I think that a cushion is a good idea rather than the square H&A to emulate the Novo look- it just seems a lot more similar to my eye. (Not to say that a square H&A isn''t beautiful, but the Novo is a cushion, not an H&A stone,right?)

I''d go with the new ERD cushion all the way. The size difference is a big one, and I don''t think you''re going to be sacrificing anything noticeable to get it. You''re still in the colorless range, and the clarity drop is reasonable IMHO; you get a lot more diamond for the money, and for most of us, as long as a stone is eye clean, that''s plenty good enough.

The only thing I could possibly think might be a difference is the workmanship on the setting- ERD would have to make a really beautiful setting to match a Tiffany Novo setting... but, they might be quite capable of doing that!

 

[sub80]

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. I''ll try and answer/clarify some of the questions that came-up below.

1. The T&Co ring is still within the return policy for two more weeks. So we have a little time and we would be getting a full refund.

2. The pricing of the cushion with a Novo type setting from Mark is within $1000 of the Tiffany (less).

3. The cut of the Novo is less of a cushion and more of a "square cut brilliant". It really performs much more like a well cut round than a cushion. Could be that it''s not better than the cushion, just different.

4. I did check with Mark on the thin girdle and he assured me that it is not an issue on this stone.

We''re getting the diamond shipped tomorrow for a preview. We''ve looked at several similar sized cushions locally so we have a good base of reference. One of the concerns she still has is how well the setting will mimick the Novo. I''ve seen several "similar" designs, some of which appear to be good and some are lacking on the details. My wife is adamant that the setting look identical to the Novo - that is a deal breaker at this point.

 

[JulieN]

Wow, that stone looks gorgeous. I'm usually very harsh with Mark's pictures.

3. If you say "square cut brilliant," that sounds like a princess. Cushion-shaped round might be better.

And, have you not considered Leon Mege for the setting?

LittleGreyKitten made excellent points. Ditto to that!

 

[Gypsy]

My vote? That cushion rocks ditto LittleGreyKitten. Have Leon do the setting, or Maytal, or Ocean.

 

[sub80]

Julie - your are right; square cut brilliant is the wrong way to describe it. I forgot that was the technical descritpion of the princess cut. Anyway, from what I''ve read (here on PS and other sites) the Novo is shaped like a square cushion with a brilliant faceting arrangement. I''ve looked at a number of cushions and none of them resemble the cut of the Novo. Again - not necessarily better or worse, just different.

I haven''t considered Leon at this point simply because I prefer to have one place sell me the diamond and the setting. If that didn''t work out I would certainly consider other options.

Thanks for the comments!

 

[suchende]

Date: 1/30/2009 3:11:57 PM
Author: sub80
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. I''ll try and answer/clarify some of the questions that came-up below.

1. The T&Co ring is still within the return policy for two more weeks. So we have a little time and we would be getting a full refund.

2. The pricing of the cushion with a Novo type setting from Mark is within $1000 of the Tiffany (less).

3. The cut of the Novo is less of a cushion and more of a ''square cut brilliant''. It really performs much more like a well cut round than a cushion. Could be that it''s not better than the cushion, just different.

4. I did check with Mark on the thin girdle and he assured me that it is not an issue on this stone.

We''re getting the diamond shipped tomorrow for a preview. We''ve looked at several similar sized cushions locally so we have a good base of reference. One of the concerns she still has is how well the setting will mimick the Novo. I''ve seen several ''similar'' designs, some of which appear to be good and some are lacking on the details. My wife is adamant that the setting look identical to the Novo - that is a deal breaker at this point.

Hmm, I haven''t tried to have a replica made personally, but it is my understanding that reputable jewelers will not make you an identical setting. If i am mistaken, I hope someone will chime in and set me straight!

 

[LGK]

Date: 1/30/2009 4:39:12 PM
Author: suchende

Date: 1/30/2009 3:11:57 PM

Author: sub80

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. I''ll try and answer/clarify some of the questions that came-up below.


1. The T&Co ring is still within the return policy for two more weeks. So we have a little time and we would be getting a full refund.


2. The pricing of the cushion with a Novo type setting from Mark is within $1000 of the Tiffany (less).


3. The cut of the Novo is less of a cushion and more of a ''square cut brilliant''. It really performs much more like a well cut round than a cushion. Could be that it''s not better than the cushion, just different.


4. I did check with Mark on the thin girdle and he assured me that it is not an issue on this stone.


We''re getting the diamond shipped tomorrow for a preview. We''ve looked at several similar sized cushions locally so we have a good base of reference. One of the concerns she still has is how well the setting will mimick the Novo. I''ve seen several ''similar'' designs, some of which appear to be good and some are lacking on the details. My wife is adamant that the setting look identical to the Novo - that is a deal breaker at this point.

Hmm, I haven''t tried to have a replica made personally, but it is my understanding that reputable jewelers will not make you an identical setting. If i am mistaken, I hope someone will chime in and set me straight!

True! The modifications necessary can be slight however. For example, if I recall, the Novo isn''t a full eternity setting, right? So, you could change the replica one into a full eternity band, or just add or subtract to the number of diamonds in the band on the original.

I know Leon does gorgeous work; I''d suggest him, Maytal Hannah, or Singlestone for a project like this. I''d almost think going with Leon or someone else would be a good idea if your wife is worrying about the setting quality and is going to be checking it carefully.

 

[isaku5]

Date: 1/30/2009 4:35:56 PM
Author: sub80
Julie - your are right; square cut brilliant is the wrong way to describe it. I forgot that was the technical descritpion of the princess cut. Anyway, from what I''ve read (here on PS and other sites) the Novo is shaped like a square cushion with a brilliant faceting arrangement. I''ve looked at a number of cushions and none of them resemble the cut of the Novo. Again - not necessarily better or worse, just different.

I haven''t considered Leon at this point simply because I prefer to have one place sell me the diamond and the setting. If that didn''t work out I would certainly consider other options.

Thanks for the comments!

The cushion from Mark looks absolutely gorgeous and, as I remember, the Novo setting is simple and therefore not that difficult to replicate (within the 20% limit as I think is required for the Tiff trademark restrictions).

Of course, the true beauty of this stone may be shot down when you can actually see Mark''s with two sets of eyes. I highly doubt that, but you never know.

Out of curiosity, do you give lessons to gentlemen on the appreciation of diamonds and the willingness to purchase such a gem? If so, would you please give me the date and time and I''ll make sure my guy attends

?

 

[vespergirl]

Gorgeous!!! I LOVE the ERD cushion! I really like big stones, so I would much rather have the bigger non-name branded stone than a smaller one from Tiffany, provided the parger one is still good quality.

 

[sub80]

Isaku - Thanks for the compliment but lessons - sorry. I wouldn''t wish my OCD on your guy. You might want him to have that level of attention with your diamonds, but not with EVERYTHING. I get a little OC with diamonds, cars, AV equipment etc... I have probably made my poor wife wish I had never decided to upgrade her e-ring.

 

[neatfreak]

Looks gorgeous to me. As the owner of a Mark T. ring, (and someone who initially was in love with a Tiffany ring), my vote goes to ERD.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, there is one other option, and that is to get another Novo that is maybe G VS2 in order to get a larger stone.

That cushion looks beautiful, though. I''d have Maytal Hannah make a Novo replica setting:

http://www.maytalhannah.com/

Look under Collections, screen 4, and ring # 39 (it is set with a sapphire). Look at photo 2 to see the side view. I don''t think you''ll find a higher quality Novo replica.

 

[sub80]

Thanks DS. I hadn''t seen that setting and it does look fantastic. Have you used her? Anyone else use or see Maytal''s work?

On that note - If I buy the diamond from one vendor and set it with another what issues or complications might I encounter?

 

[LGK]

The only issue I can think of is that you might have a hard time getting the person making the setting to insure it while it is being set. However, Jeweler''s Mutual will cover stones while they''re being set; as far as I know, they''re the only place that does, so if it''s an issue to you, I suspect you could get a policy with them for a short duration so you could have it insured while being set.

Other than that, I don''t think there''s anything I can think of, except the possible annoyance of shipping a diamond around.

Whatever you decide to do, your wife will have one heck of a gorgeous ring, that''s for sure!

 

[isaku5]

Date: 1/30/2009 8:46:26 PM
Author: sub80
Isaku - Thanks for the compliment but lessons - sorry. I wouldn''t wish my OCD on your guy. You might want him to have that level of attention with your diamonds, but not with EVERYTHING. I get a little OC with diamonds, cars, AV equipment etc... I have probably made my poor wife wish I had never decided to upgrade her e-ring.

YOU decided to upgrade her ring??? My hubby of almost 46 years is OCD about everything else, but diamonds and gemstones, never. This is not to say that I don''t have a lovely jewellery collection, but I''d wager that he couldn''t give even vague descriptions of about 90% of it.

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 1/30/2009 3:11:57 PM
Author: sub80
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. I''ll try and answer/clarify some of the questions that came-up below.
We''re getting the diamond shipped tomorrow for a preview. We''ve looked at several similar sized cushions locally so we have a good base of reference. One of the concerns she still has is how well the setting will mimick the Novo. I''ve seen several ''similar'' designs, some of which appear to be good and some are lacking on the details. My wife is adamant that the setting look identical to the Novo - that is a deal breaker at this point.

HI:

She''s had and admired the ring for a while--all knows it is a Tiffany; I wonder if she''ll be happy with another "ring". Keep the Novo?

cheers--Sharon

 

[bgray]

Stick with the Tiffany Novo. Nothing you can get from ERD will come close --the closest you can come is a square H & A cushion from GOG. The novo is really special.............and the setting is so well done. I would never settle and I think you will notice how different the stone looks.

Date: 1/30/2009 4:43:57 AM
Author:sub80

I recently bought my wife a Tiffany Novo and now we're considering building our own ring with a cushion from Mark T at ERD. She is very happy with the Novo (thrilled in fact) but she is also intrigued at the prospect of a significantly larger stone for the same $$.

I understand that the closest cut to the Novo is the GOG Square H&A (which are also very beautiful); but from what I see right now I can't save that much by going that route - certainly not enough for a significantly larger stone which is what it will take for her to give up the Tiffany. For example, the Novo I bought is a 1.46 D VS1 and measures 6.70x6.68 and it was $27K+. GOG has a 1.47 D VS1 that faces up smaller because of the depth (6.44x6.44)and it is $21K+ before adding the setting. It seems you have to go to about 1.7 carats in the square H&A to get the same 'spread' so I don't think that would save enough $ to make a change.

So that leaves us with a square cushion as the other option (that is her favorite cut other than the Novo). Mark from ERD has selected this stone which fits the budget and her coloress reqirement and will be noticable larger than the Novo. I'd appreciate any feedback you have on the diamond.

Cushion Brilliant

2.51 Carats

7.94x7.77x5.34 (1.02)

F

SI1

Table 65

Depth 68.7

Polish/Sym EX/VG

Girdle: Very Thin to Extremely Thick (Faceted)

No Fluoro

GIA 2105237579



I've tried to attach the pictures he sent but it seems to limit me to one attachement?


Bottom line is we are torn on which direction we should go to be happiest. Bigger stone but give up color, clarity and probably some light return or stick with the genuine Tiffany which she knows she loves and really doesn't have a problem with the size. She is right on the fence as am I and ultimatley we will have to choose, bu I would really appreciate some candid feedback and perhaps some perspectives we haven't considered.


Also - if we go with ERD and have them build the ring, (I don't live in NY) who would service the ring and do jewelers charge for polishing and checking settings?


Thanks!

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 1/30/2009 11:33:41 PM
Author: bgray
Stick with the Tiffany Novo. Nothing you can get from ERD will come close --the closest you can come is a square H & A cushion from GOG. The novo is really special.............and the setting is so well done. I would never settle and I think you will notice how different the stone looks.

I actually don''t care for the Novo basket at all. When Neatfreak had her previous setting (ritani) with her ERD cushion we went to Tiffany and A) the salesperson could NOT believe her ring wasn''t a Novo and B) all the PSers at the GTG agreed we preferred the Ritani setting to the Novo.

It''s all a matter of personal taste. The Novo cushion is not a patented cushion, honestly, I don''t think they are anything special at all. They are nice cushions, but not unique or unusial.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 1/30/2009 10:08:11 PM
Author: sub80
Thanks DS. I hadn't seen that setting and it does look fantastic. Have you used her? Anyone else use or see Maytal's work?

On that note - If I buy the diamond from one vendor and set it with another what issues or complications might I encounter?

I own a ring made by Maytal. Mark has no problems working with Maytal but I am not sure why everyone is dismissing Mark's work right away. How many of you who recommend others have actually seen Mark's work in person? I know someone who has seen most of the designers mentioned on this thread (except for Ocean) - there is a clear difference in quality and style among them. From what I have heard from my source, Leon and 23rd street jewelers top the list - no question.

You should take a look at the rotated 8 main pav cushions. Those most closely resembles the Novo diamond other than the square H&A. I have compared them side by side with the Tiffany novo. I own a rotated 8 main pav cushion that is a 1.00 ratio - it is cut like a round. They aren't the same but they come close. Although I think the stone you have here is gorgeous, you can get one that looks more like the novo.

It sounds like your wife actually just wants a bigger Tiffany Novo. I imagine she wants it to look exactly the same so she can potentially pass it off as a Tiffany. Most people I know (including me) actually dislikes the basket and prongs on the Tiffany Novo but it is their favourite Tiffany ring.

Sorry - a little cranky tonight.