Tiffany emerald cut soleste: band in middle

[appledappled]

Hello Everyone, I have been reading through this forum and was wondering if you could help me! I recently received the Tiffany Soleste Emerald Cut, F, VVS1, 1.05c. Excellent cut, symmetry, and polish. I don't have the certificate yet to show dimensions and percentages. In the middle of the ring at certain angles is a stripe. Is this normal, or am I seeing a bowtie effect or shadowing from the setting from a substandard cut quality? Thanks so much for your help.

 

[appledappled]

I just received the cut proportions when I got home today:

Total Depth Percentage: 69.6%
Table Size Percentage: 60%
Crown Height Percentage: 15.3%
Crown Angle: 37.6 deg
Pavilion Depth Percentage: 49.8%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8 deg
Girdle Thickness: Slightly Thick
Girdle Finish: Polished
Culet: None

 

[chamomiletea]

I don't know much about the line or proportions but I wanted to say that is a beautiful looking ring! Very elegant.

 

[whitewave]

From what I can tell the proportions are not ideal. It probably has to do with the cut of the diamond, but that is just a guess.

This is what blue nile uses for their signature cut emerald diamonds:




Are you able to return it? Unless someone replies with a fix I don't know about, its unacceptable especially considering how much was probably paid for it.

 

[whitewave]

I found this: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/emerald-cut-diamond

I'm guessing that you biggest problem is that it is too deep. (Steep and deep??? IDK)

 

[whitewave]

Found this too: You are here: Home / Articles / The Emerald Cut

Contrast

If you have a large list of diamonds to choose from, it is more efficient to filter using the table, depth, and symmetry of the stone. But if you’re starting with a shortlist or you’ve already applied proportion filters, then evaluating the contrast pattern of the stone will help you narrow it down further.

Contrast helps create sparkle, which is what you ultimately want to optimize. The sparkle of an emerald cut diamond is subtle and the elegance of the emerald cut diamond really depends on having a good contrast pattern.

The contrast pattern of a well-cut oval when viewed through the table should look like concentric cut-cornered rectangles that I call ‘frames’. These frames will be beveled at the corners but otherwise they should meet at 90-degree angles. Each frame is made up of several virtual facets and what you’re looking for are symmetrical frames, both in the width of frame and in the way the virtual facets return light.

The opposite sides of the diamond should display the same light behavior. What you don’t want are broken frames that are caused by distorted virtual facets or weak light return. Even light leakage is preferable to distorted frames if it’s symmetrical. You also don’t want frames that are returning light to be too thin so that all you see are frames that are obstructing light. This will cause an effect that is similar to the bow tie in an oval diamond.

(Prosumer diamonds)

 

[appledappled]

Thanks for the info. It was already resized, but I will call them and see what they can do. For the amount of money spent on this, I would like to get an optimal diamond.

 

[whitewave]

Raise heck (I hope if your intended bought this he/she isn't offended) and get a better diamond. Show them this picture and ask them is this what they want walking around as an advertisement for Tiffany? (No offense).

 

[appledappled]

Ha! No he just think's I'm crazy because I noticed this detail. But I'm a scientist and I can't help it!

 

[LawmaLlama]

Is it the shank reflecting in the stone from underneath?
Do you have a diagram showing the location of the inclusions?

I can't tell what you might be seeing from your photo, but in an EC, inclusions can be more visible to the naked eye depending on what they are and where they are located.

 

[appledappled]

Here is another shot in the sun. It seems like I am seeing the band through it, which I assume is from the higher depth percentage?

 

[LawmaLlama]

Yep, it looks like the shank. I dont think it is due to depth, rather this seems more likely due to either the setting style, or the EC has a large "window" in its steps which means the light is passing straight through the stone and you aren't getting the flashing on the steps that you would ordinarily see in an EC.

I'm somewhat surprised a Tiffany EC would have a big window. Did you actually buy the ring at Tiffany, or preloved? If preloved, I would be concerned the stone is not the original one placed in the ring by Tiffany. Is the stone laser inscribed by Tiffany? Can you match the stone to the Tiffany paperwork?

 

[appledappled]

Yes this was bought directly from Tiffany a few weeks ago. So it is logical to talk to them about this situation and not a problem with the emerald cut style itself? As in, I shouldn't be seeing this in an EC diamond?

 

[appledappled]

And is there anything I should specifically request as far as specs go? I already have a good color and clarity, and thought the cut, etc was excellent, but this is not the case, so I'm not sure what to ask.

 

[LawmaLlama]

The thing about ECs is that they are a fancy cut without a cut grade. I'd talk to Tiffany first about whether they see it as a window, or is it the setting style. Its hard to say without seeing it in person.

As far as I know Tiffany doesnt do ASETs, so it is really difficult to assess light return on your own in the store without comparing it to multiple stones. Some PS vendors, like GoG are really great at assisting with choosing ECs. If your plan is to exchange, read the info available on PS about ECs and ask Tiffany to pull several for you to compare. Personally, I prefer a lower depth to maximize spread. Others feel differently.

 

[rainwood]

I know very little about emerald cuts, but I wouldn't want to see the band through my diamond regardless of what shape it is! I can see why it bothers you. If you're still within the return window on the ring, I'd go back to Tiffany's and see what needs to be done differently - stone, setting or both - to get rid of that dark stripe through the middle. If they can't come up with a combination that works for you, I'd ask for my money back and start over somewhere else. I'm sure some of our EC experts could weigh in and point you in the right direction.

 

[appledappled]

This was the only one there, and I was comparing it to other cuts and not other stones. I didn't realize I had to be concerned about this and trusted I would get a high quality diamond, especially because they said cut, symmetry, and polish were all excellent. Hopefully they can bring other similar size, color, and clarity stones so I can figure this out. I will be upset if they don't.

 

[tyty333]

When you see the stripe in the middle all your facets are "off" at the same time which means they are probably all "on" at the same
time also (when you move the stone). This is not desirable in an emerald cut. You want some facets to be "on" and others to
be "off" at the same time so that you are getting flashes. By "on" I mean catching the light and reflecting it back. Off...means not catching the light.

Examples of emerals that are all OFF at the same time ...not desirable in my opinion..
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/0.35-carat-f-color-if-clarity-sku-2414104
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/0.40-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2076572
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.06-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-2265130

Examples of some on while others off (desirable)...
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.00-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2459419
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.16-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-2021359

You want the contrast (when the facet is dark) vs when it is light (bright and returning light) to sort of step though the
facets as the stone moves. You dont want all the facets to be dark at ones.

If it is returnable for another stone...you should definitely go check some others out and find a better distribution of on/off facets.

 

[appledappled]

Thanks so much for this info! It makes perfect sense and I can see the difference. I hope they will understand too and not think I am crazy.

 

[LawmaLlama]

Tyty gave you a great explanation I hadnt considered.
Your first photo shows the facets off I think, but in your second photo it seems like your shank, so
I wouldnt rule out that this EC has a giant window.

 

[tyty333]

Tyty gave you a great explanation I hadnt considered.
Your first photo shows the facets off I think, but in your second photo it seems like your shank, so
I wouldnt rule out that this EC has a giant window.

I had not seen the second image. It may very well be that the angles are just not returning light (and the light is leaking out
the bottom of the stone instead of reflecting back out the table). You may be seeing the darkness from the shank like LL stated.
Either way, neither condition is desirable ...try to find a new emerald if possible (I hope you are still within your return
period).

 

[whitewave]

Info about triple ex: http://beyond4cs.com/truth-about-gia-triple-excellent-diamonds/

I would make the point that you are exchanging because of an issue with quality. You didn t change your mind: you discovered they sold you a diamond with poor facet contrasts...

 

[distracts]

When you see the stripe in the middle all your facets are "off" at the same time which means they are probably all "on" at the same
time also (when you move the stone). This is not desirable in an emerald cut. You want some facets to be "on" and others to
be "off" at the same time so that you are getting flashes. By "on" I mean catching the light and reflecting it back. Off...means not catching the light.

Examples of emerals that are all OFF at the same time ...not desirable in my opinion..
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/0.35-carat-f-color-if-clarity-sku-2414104
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/0.40-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2076572
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.06-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-2265130

Examples of some on while others off (desirable)...
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.00-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2459419
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.16-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-2021359

You want the contrast (when the facet is dark) vs when it is light (bright and returning light) to sort of step though the
facets as the stone moves. You dont want all the facets to be dark at ones.

If it is returnable for another stone...you should definitely go check some others out and find a better distribution of on/off facets.

Yep this.

 

[appledappled]

I talked to them on the phone, then went back to the store. All of the EC they had on display had this band through them at certain angles. They said it was from the clearness of the stone and you could see through to the shank. Even a solitaire had this problem.

I told them about the window and the on/off facets and they said the cut was ideal and I shouldn't have this problem.

 

[tyty333]

Here is an emerald with a setting that has a shank that goes under the emerald. I'm not seeing darkness in it.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/beautiful-emerald-cut-from-james-allen.192884/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/beautiful-emerald-cut-from-james-allen.192884/[/URL]

You also might try looking through the thread (ignore the asschers) and see if you are seeing emeralds do the same
thing that yours is doing.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/emerald-cuts-asschers-a-collection.113993/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/emerald-cuts-asschers-a-collection.113993/[/URL]

 

[LawmaLlama]

Frankly, that's a bunch of bull. ECs are fancy cuts. You can get X symmetry and X polish, but there is no such thing as an ideal cut EC.

Based on their comments, it sounds like this particular setting does not help the steps of an EC to optimize flash.

 

[whitewave]

It's up to you on how far you want to push it. I've never seen this before on an emerald and I have seen many emeralds including high end ones.

It sounds like they are hiding behind the ex ex and not explaining why it is a problem. "Our other ones have it so its not a problem..."

What did they say about returning it? Are you able to *if that is what you want*? Is there another store you can go look at?

 

[whitewave]

Frankly, that's a bunch of bull. ECs are fancy cuts. You can get X symmetry and X polish, but there is no such thing as an ideal cut EC.

Based on their comments, it sounds like this particular setting does not help the steps of an EC to optimize flash.

This is true. There is no "ideal cut" designation for fancy cuts.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I don't think it is the shank or the setting. Although I am beginning to wonder if all the emerald cut diamonds looked that way. I think it is more likely a light return issue as tyty suggested. You cannot use measurements like the Blue Nile chart for fancy cut stones. You have to look at the stone and check light return, when you have the option. I totally look for different table measurements than they list, for one thing. I prefer a table at 65 or less and your 60 is very desirable, as far as I am concerned. I dislike huge tables and flat looking crowns.

One question, did you see the dark part in the EC rings in that tray before you brought out your phone or camera to take the picture? Because there is often a camera reflection in diamonds which makes a dark area appear.

The unfortunate thing here is that I think Tiffany has a 30 day return period, and since you have had the stone for several weeks, you may be past that time. I am sure your diamond must look fine most of the time or else you wouldn't have kept it this long before noticing the dark facets. I hope you can either exchange or resolve your feelings about the stone.

 

[Rivendell]

Step cuts do have a tendency to be moody stones. I had an asscher which was gorgeous in some lights but in others it looked like it had a dark square in the middle. I could never see the setting through it though - it was an F, VS1. With most fancy cuts you have to choose what's appealing to your eyes. It's such a shame you're disappointed but I'm sure you can get this resolved.