Thoughts on this sapphire ring?

[Mrs_Darcy]

I think this is one of the most gorgeous pieces of jewelry I’ve ever seen, but I notice it was originally posted to Leon Mege’s instagram several years ago. I’m new to the world of colored stones - any ideas as to why it hasn’t sold over that long period? I’m beginning to look at options for a milestone anniversary, specifically a sapphire right hand ring. Thanks for any advice/opinions.

r7859

Leon Megé Montpassier™ three-stone ring featuring a vibrant blue sapphire and diamonds r7859

leonmege.com

 

[Avondale]

any ideas as to why it hasn’t sold over that long period?

Because it costs 50k

Seriously, these things take long to sell. Not everyone can spend that kind of money, and the people who can are usually very particular about what they want.

 

[Mrs_Darcy]

Because it costs 50k

Seriously, these things take long to sell. Not everyone can spend that kind of money, and the people who can are usually very particular about what they want.

Yes, I definitely get that, it’s just I see people drop that kind of $$ on upgrading their diamond engagement rings pretty regularly on PS, so I was wondering if there was some other issue besides the overall cost. I suppose the market of buyers looking for sapphire rings is smaller than that of buyers looking for diamonds. Specifically, I was wondering if the price was felt to be excessive for the piece? I recognize it is a custom, bespoke piece not easily replicated, but it’s so much harder to judge price/value compared to diamonds, where it’s easy to compare ideal cuts among vendors. Thanks for replying!

 

[dk168]

Price - that is a lot of spare pennies that I don't have!

DK

 

[Avondale]

Well, here’s my guess.

First of all, more PSers are diamond folk, not nearly as many prefer coloured stones. Leon Mege is a name that comes with its own price tag. And the other reason I can think of is that the stone is heated. If you have that kind of money and want to spend it on a blue sapphire, you’re more likely to prioritise stone quality over everything else, and aim for unheated.

Overall, while this ring is very beautiful, it requires a specific buyer. One who can afford to spend that kind of cash and is okay with a good portion of the price going towards the jeweller’s name and the stone’s size. And, of course, one who loves it more than the other jewellery they could buy with their 50k.

 

[Mreader]

Well, here’s my guess.

First of all, more PSers are diamond folk, not nearly as many prefer coloured stones. Leon Mege is a name that comes with its own price tag. And the other reason I can think of is that the stone is heated. If you have that kind of money and want to spend it on a blue sapphire, you’re more likely to prioritise stone quality over everything else, and aim for unheated.

Overall, while this ring is very beautiful, it requires a specific buyer. One who can afford to spend that kind of cash and is okay with a good portion of the price going towards the jeweller’s name and the stone’s size. And, of course, one who loves it more than the other jewellery they could buy with their 50k.

100% this. If I were spending that amount of $ on sapphire I would want no heat. It’s a gorgeous ring though. And perhaps the price is negotiable?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

The designer is top notch and his work obviously speaks for itself. However the stone is heated and at that price tag there are other options.

I feel that some colour stone folks (myself included) are fairly resourceful people who may not necessarily drop that kind of money for that stone and ring, as magnificent as it is.

 

[newtojewels]

On the other hand, if this ring is calling you and you can afford the original, trying to find a similar ring for less may just leave you wondering the entire time if it's as good as what you actually wanted. I would ask about flexibility in the price like @Mreader suggested, but sometimes a piece of jewelry is just waiting for the right match and that doesn't mean there's something wrong with it.

My first real fine jewelry purchase was a ring that had lingered on Jewels by Grace for at least 2 years before I bought it -- and it didn't even have the excuse of being $48k! It was less than 10% of that, so was reasonably affordable. Obviously it wasn't the deal of the century because it would have sold in the previous two years if it had been, but something doesn't need to be the deal of the century for it to be a fair price for you. I have 0 regrets about my ring and I know I would have regretted trying to recreate it elsewhere (it's the pinky-purply-red pear tourmaline halo on the left of my avatar, if you're curious). Obviously $48k is a lot of money and I can't begin to claim to know enough to determine if the price tag is reasonable or not, but I think the principle of something not selling not necessarily making it a bad purchase for a particular person still applies.

 

[VividRed]

50k for a heated sapphire is a lot of money, even with that amazing color

 

[Mrs_Darcy]

Thanks so much for all of your replies. Unfortunately I have confirmed that the price is not flexible, prices are actually scheduled to increase within the month. I can’t fly out to see the piece in person until February or March, and I’m not wanting to purchase without seeing it first, and unfortunately the current price could not be honored at that time.

Any suggestions on sourcing a similar vivid blue sapphire? I would be interested in having Victor Canera set the stone - would it be better to reach out to him first? I don’t believe he sets outside diamonds, but I wasn’t sure if colored stones were different.

 

[Dreamer_D]

For that kind of budget I would work with someone with a trusted eye for quality who has known connections in the field. The colored gem trade is really based on long-term relationships between vendors and often small-scale suppliers. So I would want to get as close to those suppliers as I could and that means finding a vendor with established relationships. For the price point you are considering I would consider Inken Krause (based on experiences related this board) and Yvonne Raley (ditto plus my personal experience). I trust their eye and like buying from small businesswomen.

VC does not set outside stones but frankly, there are others who do and sourcing the right stone is far more important IMO than the setting and you can find someone else for that. But if you feel differently by all means reach out to VC and see if he can source you a sapphire.

 

[Mreader]

Thanks so much for all of your replies. Unfortunately I have confirmed that the price is not flexible, prices are actually scheduled to increase within the month. I can’t fly out to see the piece in person until February or March, and I’m not wanting to purchase without seeing it first, and unfortunately the current price could not be honored at that time.

Any suggestions on sourcing a similar vivid blue sapphire? I would be interested in having Victor Canera set the stone - would it be better to reach out to him first? I don’t believe he sets outside diamonds, but I wasn’t sure if colored stones were different.

I would start with Inken.

I’m shocked that he won’t wiggle on the price and that he said it’s going to go up and he wouldn’t change it if you go out there to look at it after it goes up. But he’s known to be kind of a character.

 

[newtojewels]

VC will sometimes set outside stones, it's worth reaching out to ask depending on how set on him you are. I think it depends on the workload and whether they could source something similar or not and the setting you're eyeing.

Steven Kirsch definitely sets outside stones, though, so you could get a sapphire from Inken and a setting from SK (plus Inken has access to a great bench).

Here's Inken's website: https://www.enhoerning-jewelry.com/

I'm also surprised that there would be no flexibility and that Leon wouldn't honor the price in just a month or two if it doesn't sell, that's wild.

 

[Mrs_Darcy]

VC will sometimes set outside stones, it's worth reaching out to ask depending on how set on him you are. I think it depends on the workload and whether they could source something similar or not and the setting you're eyeing.

Steven Kirsch definitely sets outside stones, though, so you could get a sapphire from Inken and a setting from SK (plus Inken has access to a great bench).

Here's Inken's website: https://www.enhoerning-jewelry.com/

I'm also surprised that there would be no flexibility and that Leon wouldn't honor the price in just a month or two if it doesn't sell, that's wild.

Thanks so much everyone for your help, I really appreciate it. I also thought it was really surprising and ungenerous that the current price could not be honored in February or March when I could make it there to view the piece, particularly as it has been in stock for more than 5 years. Honestly if he would’ve honored the current price, I would’ve booked the flight and very likely would’ve purchased the ring, even though the general consensus is that it’s overpriced for a heated stone. But now I feel happy to take my business elsewhere. I will keep you all updated as I go through the process of creating a custom piece!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Thanks so much for all of your replies. Unfortunately I have confirmed that the price is not flexible, prices are actually scheduled to increase within the month. I can’t fly out to see the piece in person until February or March, and I’m not wanting to purchase without seeing it first, and unfortunately the current price could not be honored at that time.

Any suggestions on sourcing a similar vivid blue sapphire? I would be interested in having Victor Canera set the stone - would it be better to reach out to him first? I don’t believe he sets outside diamonds, but I wasn’t sure if colored stones were different.

i feel sad they wold not hold the price for you for a couple of months when its been sitting there unsold for two years
i dont think this is ment to be

 

[Avondale]

i dont think this is ment to be

I agree. I also think it isn’t meant to be because there is a better sapphire out there meant for you. While this one has a very attractive colour, you can find better.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Check natabi jewelery and enhoerning.

Both have plenty of unheated at that budget and will source.

If happy with heated (there are some advantages of heated stones) then check gemstore24 and sort on price decending

 

[Dreamer_D]

Thanks so much everyone for your help, I really appreciate it. I also thought it was really surprising and ungenerous that the current price could not be honored in February or March when I could make it there to view the piece, particularly as it has been in stock for more than 5 years. Honestly if he would’ve honored the current price, I would’ve booked the flight and very likely would’ve purchased the ring, even though the general consensus is that it’s overpriced for a heated stone. But now I feel happy to take my business elsewhere. I will keep you all updated as I go through the process of creating a custom piece!

This is a common sales tactic to try and coerce buyers into feeling pressured to buy. I also find it very off-putting. I wouldn’t be surprised if the price never changes.

 

[glitterata]

(there are some advantages of heated stones)

@qubitasaurus, can you say what the advantages are of heated stones? Apologies if this is a thread hijack.

 

[LilAlex]

I agree -- it's a very pretty ring that almost anyone could appreciate!

The sapphire is quite deep so the face-up size is not as generous as it might be for the ct-weight. I can not say too much about the color -- I have never seen an unattractive sapphire on IG, for example, so I am not reading too much into that.

I love the shield diamonds and the "make"; however, no one will factor in more than $5K for the mounting (e.g., on re-sale) so it's > $6K/ct for an almost 7-ct heated sapphire. Being receptive to heated opens a big wide world in this size range, imo.

I am totally turned off by the "it hasn't sold for years so hurry up because I will raise the price next month." That is some serious horsesh*t in my book and I would generally turn and run from that type of vendor. ("Not only won't I work with you on pricing, I will actively work against you, my friend!") I mean I've heard vendors say there has been a lot of interest or I would need at least a verbal commitment to hold it. And I've looked at some bigger-ticket things and never heard a flea-market line like this. Plus, I feel that pandemic prices have finally peaked so unlikely that "old" pricing will become obsolete.

ETA: And what is "Rolex-grade platinum"? It must be very accurate. I know our spec house has "contractor-grade" everything and that's not a good thing, although it sounds like it should be.

 

[VividRed]

This reminds me of a vendor I bought a ruby from a few years ago. I was undecided between a Burmese and a Mozambique ruby, both lovely but priced differently. I bought the Burmese despite the higher price and thought I’d buy the Mozambique one a bit later.

Well, not even 12.months later I re-engaged and asked for a deal on the Mozambique ruby. To my surprise, the price had increased by 30%, from an already VERY high baseline. So I offered him the price we agreed upon the year prior and he told me he simply could not replace thar ruby at such a low price. It was, to put it mildly, horsesh*t. That stone, as most of his inventory, had been sitting for years, many years, and instead of securing a solid sale, he tried to squeeze that extra 5k, which of course he did not.

Selling at future replacement value + margin is a thing and get it, but only if your turnover is high. How many stones have we been looking at for years that are still there? Countless.

It’s a tough business, this episode is frankly nasty and I am glad you chose to look elsewhere, @Mrs_Darcy

 

[qubitasaurus]

@qubitasaurus, can you say what the advantages are of heated stones? Apologies if this is a thread hijack.

Maybe this is subjective but you get a lot of qualities which may be desirable in a sapphire via heating

1. It's got less colour zoning and is a nice even colour
2. It often improves colour or tone
3. It tends to change inclusions-- e.g. silk disolves -- so you get a cleaner stone.

You can get all of these in unheated but then you kind of have to decide what else you'll compromise for that -- I've tried several times to get this right and I always find the outcome I ended up with was not quite as nice as some of the heated stones I've seen for a fraction of the price.

I think some of the changes from heating are covered here

https://lotusgemology.com/index.php...re-low-temperature-heat-treatment-experiments

I guess maybe this means more if I compare some heated to unheated stones below.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Mmm not doing this quite right as I'm a bit short time but this is two heated vs multiple unheated options (hard to see the inclusions and difference in vividness as its different vendors but it's there to an extent). I grabbed these at random

 

[qubitasaurus]

Vs



It goes without saying you can have it all if money is no obstacle. But I think the qualities above are just more common in heated stones (as heating improves them).

 

[glitterata]

Thank you, @qubitasaurus . I think you're saying that the reasons people heat sapphires in the first place tend to make heated sapphires more visually appealing than unheated ones, even disregarding the price difference. Is that it?

 

[Mrs_Darcy]

Thanks for sharing, qubitasaurus! That was super helpful.

Any opinions on these two stones? Trying to educate myself based on inventory available online.

Colorline

colorlineusa.com

Colorline

colorlineusa.com

 

[Avondale]

Thank you, @qubitasaurus . I think you're saying that the reasons people heat sapphires in the first place tend to make heated sapphires more visually appealing than unheated ones, even disregarding the price difference. Is that it?

Allow me to butt in into that very interesting topic.

I was always left with the impression that a sapphire is left untreated if the owner/seller believes it cannot be sufficiently improved by heating. If it cannot be improved, the heating will only lower its value and shrink profits.

I would assume that you walk a fine line making this decision. You have to consider whether heating could increase the value of the stone enough to compensate for the way the presence of treatment reduces it. A vastly superior colour in a heated sapphire is bound to fetch more cash than a mediocre colour in an untreated sapphire.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Thank you, @qubitasaurus . I think you're saying that the reasons people heat sapphires in the first place tend to make heated sapphires more visually appealing than unheated ones, even disregarding the price difference. Is that it?

Yes I think you nailed it. We heat it to get the qualities a lot of people look for in a sapphire (I'm just stumbling over the wording as many PSers tend to like more silk). I've tried multiple times to find a bucket list of qualities in a unheated stone -- e.g. should be over 5 ct, shouldn't have a heavy bottom making it face up small, shouldn't have obviously cutting issues like half-and-half extinction, off center cullet, nicks in the girdle or windowing, should hold colour accross all lighting, should be vivid, should be medium tone, shouldn't have any large finger prints in the crown, ideally shouldn't have large number of fingerprints, shouldn't have any surface reaching inclusions, shouldn't have any black or eye visible inclusions, shouldn't be ridiculously costly, should be round, oval or cushion/emerald/archer etc not fancy cut. Material which is free from all of these issues and unheated is expensive (almost certainly the cutter will also have tried to keep ct weight with some suboptimal optics trade off as theyre expecting to get top dollar per ct). With heated you may not fulfill all of these, and then after heating the stone more or less acquires them. So in a heated stone this is quite doable, while unheated ones with these qualities fetch a premium and are harder to locate. I've come to a conclusion that you either need to remove criteria, accept heated or have the $$$$s to send someone with the right contacts searching for you and then be willing to up your budget when they find it.

Allow me to butt in into that very interesting topic.

I was always left with the impression that a sapphire is left untreated if the owner/seller believes it cannot be sufficiently improved by heating. If it cannot be improved, the heating will only lower its value and shrink profits.

I would assume that you walk a fine line making this decision. You have to consider whether heating could increase the value of the stone enough to compensate for the way the presence of treatment reduces it. A vastly superior colour in a heated sapphire is bound to fetch more cash than a mediocre colour in an untreated sapphire.

I think it's just if it'll sell for more once heated.