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Thoughts on this ruby?

Discussion in 'Colored Gemstones' started by kittencakes, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. kittencakes
    Rough_Rock

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    by kittencakes » Jan 9, 2019
    667A6BEB-ABB6-466A-A332-BF28DED93F9F.png 1758E19F-B9EB-4889-BF95-815CD6518AAD.png Hi All!

    I wanted to ask the experts before purchasing. I am looking at purchasing a 2.13ct ruby. This lovely seller has told me the gem is hard to capture in photos but it’s very glowly in person. I am looking for a bright, glowly red. What do you think? The only treatment is heat.

    Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  2. Bron357
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Bron357 » Jan 9, 2019
    Hi, no 1, you need a lab report.
    There are just sooooo many rubies out there that as well as “heat” include flux filling and Beryllium diffusion treatment. You cannot “trust” a seller, only a lab report tells the truth.
    There is nothing necessarily wrong with buying a flux filled ruby or one that is BE treated BUT the price should be very cheap !
    No 2 - return policy of seller. Gems look different in real life, someone’s else opinion of “red” or “glowy” may not match yours. You want to be able to return the gem, no hassle, for a full refund (excluding shipping) if it’s not as you expected.
    The sellers photos arent great. You should ask for photos against a white background in natural outdoor light ie daylight and inside at night with ordinary lighting. You can’t assess the cut from the photos, it may be windowed.
    And I think it might actually be less transparent than you expect ie translucent and more pink than “red”.
     
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  3. chrono
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by chrono » Jan 9, 2019
    Agree 100% with @Bron357 regarding
    1. Reputable lab report
    2. Return policy
    3. Feasibility of return shipping and insurance
     
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  4. Bron357
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Bron357 » Jan 9, 2019
    And just to add, a “heat only” ruby of 2 carats should be costing between $5,000 and $15,000 depending on tone and clarity. A 2 carat true red ruby with good clarity, just heat, is easily around $15,000.
    On the other hand a 2 carat glass filled ruby is about $50.
    This is why you must have a reputable lab report.
    A “bargain price” 2 carat ruby won’t be because the seller is naive or foolish and is mistakenly selling you a $5,000 plus ruby for cheap. It will be a treated ruby.
    Reputable labs include AGL, GRS Swiss lab, Lotus Gemology or GIA . Anything from India, China, Thailand etc is highly dubious and not to be trusted.
     
  5. voce
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by voce » Jan 9, 2019
    Agree with all that @Bron said, but the part quoted. Lotus Gemology is in Thailand, nowhere else. AIGS is also a reputable lab in Thailand. I would personally say trust but verify. Make sure you can get a refund if stated claim cannot be verified.
     
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  6. Anne111
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Anne111 » Jan 10, 2019
    GIA, GRS, IGI, etc etc are all in Thailand not to mention many others. Sorry Bron, but I find such a claim dangerously close to 'not publishable'. How many small but honest lab owners are doing their best everywhere? And wasn't it GIA in the US where people went to jail for faking diamond reports for the middle east?
    I think you should retract that comment?
     
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  7. kittencakes
    Rough_Rock

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    by kittencakes » Jan 10, 2019
    Sorry I should have provided more details. Stone is from Singapore and the cert is Nan Yang Gemological Institute. Origin is Burma. I will try and post more pics
     
  8. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by ChaiK » Jan 10, 2019
    Nan Yang lab is very reliable.

    Check refund policy. You want full refund (minus postage you may have to accept).
    Check for cracks, chips window and extinction - get vendor to confirm there are none of these. Inclusions and silk are normal. I sometimes don't mind windows but difficult to explain so I will leave that.

    Reds are difficult to capture in photos.
     
  9. kittencakes
    Rough_Rock

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    by kittencakes » Jan 10, 2019
    58DB5374-A462-473F-9E2B-BC6152465F8C.png 27AD507A-84AA-4E6F-A8C9-39F740030FE5.png D069FEDB-FD60-4F4C-BEB0-6ED945D97F8D.png D41D85DE-9B67-4ACC-AA88-111A5FD57B0A.png

    These were all taken outside in natural sunlight
     
  10. chrono
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by chrono » Jan 10, 2019
    Nan Yang is reliable but for a 2 ct ruby, I'd still stick with a bigger named lab such as GIA, GRS, or Lotus. Ruby is a tricky one to assess correctly.
     
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  11. lambskin
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by lambskin » Jan 10, 2019
    I do not like it when all of the shots a seller provides are on the hand. If I am buying on the internet I would like to see the stone from all sides and angles. A hand shot can provide some idea as to how the stone appears sizewise (yes I know that hand size differs but that is why we ask posters to post a hand shot of a new ring!
     
  12. kittencakes
    Rough_Rock

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    by kittencakes » Jan 10, 2019
    Does anyone know on what value above is there a customs duty and how much is it?

    This would be shipping from Singapore to USA. Thanks
     
  13. Bron357
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Bron357 » Jan 10, 2019
    My intention was to reference the “lab reports” that seem accompany gems that abound on eBay / Etsy that turn out most definitely to be “not as described”. I myself, in the past with less knowledge and experience, have been mislead into buying “glass filled” and BE treated gems on the basis of one of those “lab reports”.
    I mean no disrespect to “new and/or small gem lab businesses” but the business of selling treated rubies as “natural” (remember Macy’s with the glass filled ones) is widespread. Some modern day treatments including Beryllium diffusion are very hard to detect without expensive and specialized equipment. This is where the “small local gem labs” suffer, they don’t have all the latest and expensive equipment so they can’t test for everything and they don’t have a worldwide “rock solid” reputation. Here in Australia a very well respected lab (in Australia) identified an unheated Kashmir Sapphire. However, the chief gemologist at the lab said “it will have to go overseas, probably GRS Swiss lab, because no one is going to buy a $100,000 sapphire just on my say so.”
    So my point is, unless a gem comes with a report from a well known and reputable lab who is known to have the correct equipment to detect the latest enhancements and treatments, you might be buying something “not as described”.
     
  14. qubitasaurus
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by qubitasaurus » Jan 11, 2019
    Is the stone unheated/untreated? Nanyang gem labs is supposed to be really good, but no one has been able to confirm that they have LIBS testing for me yet -- which would make it safer to go with rubies and sapphires which are unheated.

    Edit -- I just realized your not in singapore, I would search stuff closer to you.
     
  15. Anne111
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Anne111 » Jan 11, 2019
    Just leave out the condescending country references and we will be OK. There might be shady labs in Switzerland, too. And size and reputation does not guarantee honest employees either.
    Of course a 100.000 gem deserves all labs in the world but for simple stones (no heat at all) or lower values, one can give a chance to smaller labs. If a sapphire s 100% not heated, they won't need an LIBS or whatever, right? I considered starting a lab in Germany (we have only DSEF) -- dream-dream -- and if everybody only trusts the big labs, then no newbies have a chance ever.
     
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  16. voce
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by voce » Jan 11, 2019
    To answer OP's question, in the US we are customs free $2500 and under.
     
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  17. kittencakes
    Rough_Rock

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    by kittencakes » Jan 11, 2019
    thank you all for your help! this stone is heat treated only and the seller has provided shown me others as unheated too
     
  18. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by AV_ » Jan 11, 2019
    These are still claims.

    Lotus
     
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  19. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Jan 11, 2019
    Is this being sold by Enohring (spelling?) either via etsy or LT? I think who the vendor is makes a difference, because I believe other PSers have had excellent interactions with her, and she has been shown to be trustworthy. Just IMHO. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful, but it is important to keep in mind.
     
  20. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » Jan 11, 2019
    Large labs are best for corundum, emeralds, and alexandrite. There’s nothing wrong with the smaller labs for other gems. I’ve had issues with even AIGS for a sapphire. In my case, I had to eventually send it to AGL to get it properly verified.

    Sometimes the accuracy of a mass spectrometer is needed. Some of the larger labs can detect irradiation whereas smaller labs cannot.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  21. Burmesedaze
    Ideal_Rock

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  22. Burmesedaze
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Burmesedaze » Jan 12, 2019
    Well said.
     
  23. Roger Dery
    Shiny_Rock
    Trade

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    by Roger Dery » Jan 13, 2019
    Hi kittencakes,
    To add further information regarding importation. For loose gemstones, can find the appropriate category in the Harmonized Tariff Codes published bi-yearly in the US here: https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=7103

    However, given your importation situation you are importing [non-commercial goods] (as in not-for-resale). If the importation is for commercial goods (for resale), if under US $2500, you can self-import. If above US $2500 you must contract with a customs-house broker to process the package, for a fee.

    Either way, importing into the US there will not be a duty regarding loose gemstones or gem rough.

    Hope you find this helpful.
     
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  24. kittencakes
    Rough_Rock

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    by kittencakes » Jan 14, 2019
    thank you all! and yes this is a vendor vetted by pricescope which is why I felt a little more comfortable
     
  25. strawrose
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by strawrose » Jan 15, 2019
    93FBE409-474B-44A4-843E-FAB36ECAC48A.jpeg

    I don’t know if this will help, but I inputted this into my FedEx account.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  26. kittencakes
    Rough_Rock

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    by kittencakes » Jan 15, 2019
    F6207862-467A-4A4B-AD5C-65FE6DA86B0E.jpeg 63975993-8EB5-4FEC-AD5C-49A64E0552A4.jpeg Thank you all so much. The stone arrived today. It’s late and I will have to take more shots in the daytime. Here is a quick pic taken with my phone (not the best quaility but an idea)
     
  27. strawrose
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by strawrose » Jan 15, 2019
    So much glow! :kiss2:
     
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  28. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Jan 15, 2019
    Love it!!!!!
     
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  29. MissyBeaucoup
    Brilliant_Rock

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  30. Anne111
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Anne111 » Jan 17, 2019
    Pinkish but definitely and STRONG color. If you like it, it's great.
     

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